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X4 - ten questions for developers
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Nick 031287





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PostPosted: Tue, 9. May 17, 16:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ezra-r wrote:
@BigBANGtheory has made a very important question

Nick 031287 wrote:
i was really hoping they would get rid of those silly highways!!!!! the ones between zones anyway.... why not just feature a full blown solar system we get to cruise around in???


highways are not a "bad idea", specially if they save you travel time from one landmark to another, convoluted ones, fake traffic and similar can ruin their experience though.

They have said they are making straight highways, and from that I get they are trying to make them practical, which is a very good thing, it's either that or warp/cap boost, but we need a method for faster space travel in a straight line.


well as i said the super highways are fine.... but the zone ones are terrible. and unnecessary they get in the way of alot of things. it would have been better they just come up with a interplanetary drive instead, and have a entire solar system to explore.... rather then having factorys all clumped up in 1 place which is stupid....

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ezra-r





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PostPosted: Wed, 10. May 17, 20:29    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I'd like to know if building factories will be favoured to do from the ground up, and not like in Rebirth, in which you must start with the most complex factories to earn before the moxt complex ingredients run out of the economy because they pre-exist, not being generated like in a real economy (very slow and take ages, so very inefficiently)

As in.. a wheat complex would require manually mined minerals and simpler ingredients to build + factory robots/drones, whereas more complex product like missile would require minerals, products manufactured with minerals, chips, etc.. + factory robots, etc.

This is, encourage players to build the simpler factories first being *less dependable* on very complex, more expensive products like it happens in Rebirth now.


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spankahontis





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PostPosted: Wed, 10. May 17, 22:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nick 031287 wrote:
ezra-r wrote:
@BigBANGtheory has made a very important question

Nick 031287 wrote:
i was really hoping they would get rid of those silly highways!!!!! the ones between zones anyway.... why not just feature a full blown solar system we get to cruise around in???


highways are not a "bad idea", specially if they save you travel time from one landmark to another, convoluted ones, fake traffic and similar can ruin their experience though.

They have said they are making straight highways, and from that I get they are trying to make them practical, which is a very good thing, it's either that or warp/cap boost, but we need a method for faster space travel in a straight line.


well as i said the super highways are fine.... but the zone ones are terrible. and unnecessary they get in the way of alot of things. it would have been better they just come up with a interplanetary drive instead, and have a entire solar system to explore.... rather then having factorys all clumped up in 1 place which is stupid....



Immersion wise they make allot of sense for smaller ships that can't fit jumpdrives to get around to work.
They give the indication of a civilization that has established itself in that region of space.
Core systems should have them, Border Systems however should not.

What I'd like to see is the ability to build your own highway system in a region of space you claim as your own (Or choose not to).

Highways are a Marmite feature some love them, overs hate them.. I think we can cater to both sides by giving equal representation for both with the Core/Border narrative; satisfy both sides.

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gbjbaanb





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PostPosted: Sat, 13. May 17, 18:16    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The thing with highways was that were supposed to be a quicker way of navigating between sectors (and within sectors) than the old warp gates.

Trouble, is, the warp gates made a lot more sense, were easier to work with and didn't get in your way.

So we might as well just bring them back and have done with it. Within a sector, the cruise drive should make an appearance instead - turn on cruise, wait for shields and weapons to go to 0, and then off you go in a big straight line. not much different to highways, except you won't have to slowly navigate to enter one.

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spankahontis





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PostPosted: Sun, 14. May 17, 21:53    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

gbjbaanb wrote:
The thing with highways was that were supposed to be a quicker way of navigating between sectors (and within sectors) than the old warp gates.

Trouble, is, the warp gates made a lot more sense, were easier to work with and didn't get in your way.

So we might as well just bring them back and have done with it. Within a sector, the cruise drive should make an appearance instead - turn on cruise, wait for shields and weapons to go to 0, and then off you go in a big straight line. not much different to highways, except you won't have to slowly navigate to enter one.



Smaller ships that don't have boosters that need those highways to get from A to B. People that live in civilization, with jobs and lives etc.

Border Systems should be more like the Wild West with little to no Highways except Super Highways.

Personally highways would be great if you could build them yourself and even destroy them to cut off supply routes in war zones.
Just as you have placeholders for Stations you have them for highways and Super Highways.

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Len5





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PostPosted: Tue, 16. May 17, 15:38    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sounds very promising.

Will our own solar system be back again?

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Stars_InTheirEyes





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PostPosted: Wed, 17. May 17, 09:31    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I have a kind of vague question which I'd be surprised if it hadn't been asked before but since I reside nearly entirely in off-topic, I'll ask it anyway:
What lessons were learned from Rebirth? How is the approach in design different?


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Artean





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PostPosted: Wed, 17. May 17, 11:25    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Will X4 have a good integration of HOTAS??


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The Cheshire Cat





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PostPosted: Wed, 17. May 17, 13:01    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ezra-r wrote:
I'd like to know if building factories will be favoured to do from the ground up, and not like in Rebirth, in which you must start with the most complex factories to earn before the moxt complex ingredients run out of the economy because they pre-exist, not being generated like in a real economy (very slow and take ages, so very inefficiently)

As in.. a wheat complex would require manually mined minerals and simpler ingredients to build + factory robots/drones, whereas more complex product like missile would require minerals, products manufactured with minerals, chips, etc.. + factory robots, etc.

This is, encourage players to build the simpler factories first being *less dependable* on very complex, more expensive products like it happens in Rebirth now.


Yeah, the whole "Fusion reactors are needed for everything" aspect of Rebirth makes it a pain to build stations, because it means that expansion depends entirely on Ship Tech Fabs, which means that it makes the most sense to build those first, despite them actually being high tier stations, because otherwise you're going to be sitting around waiting forever for the NPC stations to produce them (not to mention you're competing with the many other NPC stations that want them, since they're also used at shipyards).

I think what might make more sense is if the initial stages of stations required less complex wares to build, and then as the station gets bigger, the complexity of the requirements go up. So you can bootstrap a working economy out of very basic mined materials and energy cells, but upgrading those stations to max will require the full "tech tree" of production.

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ezra-r





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PostPosted: Wed, 17. May 17, 13:08    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The Cheshire Cat wrote:
ezra-r wrote:
I'd like to know if building factories will be favoured to do from the ground up, and not like in Rebirth, in which you must start with the most complex factories to earn before the moxt complex ingredients run out of the economy because they pre-exist, not being generated like in a real economy (very slow and take ages, so very inefficiently)

As in.. a wheat complex would require manually mined minerals and simpler ingredients to build + factory robots/drones, whereas more complex product like missile would require minerals, products manufactured with minerals, chips, etc.. + factory robots, etc.

This is, encourage players to build the simpler factories first being *less dependable* on very complex, more expensive products like it happens in Rebirth now.


Yeah, the whole "Fusion reactors are needed for everything" aspect of Rebirth makes it a pain to build stations, because it means that expansion depends entirely on Ship Tech Fabs, which means that it makes the most sense to build those first, despite them actually being high tier stations, because otherwise you're going to be sitting around waiting forever for the NPC stations to produce them (not to mention you're competing with the many other NPC stations that want them, since they're also used at shipyards).

I think what might make more sense is if the initial stages of stations required less complex wares to build, and then as the station gets bigger, the complexity of the requirements go up. So you can bootstrap a working economy out of very basic mined materials and energy cells, but upgrading those stations to max will require the full "tech tree" of production.


Exactly my thoughts. Depending on high-tech products to build every single small factory is a BIG PAIN. A farm or water production plant should not need such high-tech products. One should be able to build this with time and self-effort rather than buying lots of high tech products. Complexity should rise when you start building more complex fabs, but this should always depend on pre-existing lower level fabs. Medium high-level fab should never depend on higher-level fab to be built, unless specific exotic stuff (out of reach for many).

Examples of the exceptions could be a paranid jewelry or very complex exotic/high-tech items. A factory for this, which sells expensive jewels should need high tech stuff to produce them. But a wheat plant, spacefuel, etc.. should be able to be manufactured with the sweat of farmers and other raw products which can be optained without having to buy them if one just wants to use their sweat only. Get my meaning? You can buy, but you can produce them with your efford if you can't afford to "pay".

It would be ideal if "small", starting players can soon start building their own "small" factories with their "own" effort, instead of just earning tones of money to aim for the top, because thats about the only place where money lies (in Rebirth).

Big factories probably would need to buy tones on smaller ingredients to manufacture complex stuff, so building such small factories first pays off.

Hope someone at @Egosoft tell us something about what they have thought for this for the TNBT.


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RodentofDoom





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PostPosted: Wed, 17. May 17, 20:59    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nick 031287 wrote:
i was really hoping they would get rid of those silly highways!!!!! the ones between zones anyway.... why not just feature a full blown solar system we get to cruise around in???


2 problems here

1) space is big, like really big.
if you thought walking 5 miles to the local shop was bad, you'd hate space
2) human reactions are kinda slow and clumsy


why are those issues ....
if you want a dog-fight in space your limited to a few hundred miles per hour of speed limit, go much faster than that and a poor slow clumsy human cant react fast enough to external events that happen over timescales of mili-seconds or less.

travel in space would be super super boring ... when 2 planets are typically millions of miles distant, and billions of miles isnt that unusual for the larger gas-giants on a systems periphery .. at a few hundred miles per HOUR getting to the fight is going to be a problem.

But it's the future i hear you say .. i have a space engine that lets me go superfast.
OK .. so you accelerate over time to be superfast ... and when you're halfway to where you want to be ... you have to start decelerating, because if you don't the only effective weapon system is one that is purely computer controlled, so no dog-fights for you.


realism is not very entertaining
even elite is an arcade styled space sim

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Nanook
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PostPosted: Wed, 17. May 17, 23:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RodentofDoom wrote:
...
realism is not very entertaining
even elite is an arcade styled space sim


And Elite lets you fly superfast over long distances and still have local dogfights. If they can do it, so can the X Universe. Razz

But there's a much more elegant, and believable, alternative to the silly highways:

•Fighters and small transports stay local. They can be equipped with boost capability in order to travel the relatively short distance between the zones.

•Fighters and small transports can hitch rides aboard big ships (ferries and carriers) to go long distances, i.e., between sectors and systems.

•Big ships are the only ones with jump drive and gate travel capability, both of which require a massive powerplant and other equipment much too large for the smaller ships to carry.

And there you have it, a more believable universe without 'highways' cluttering up the view. Wink

Of course, it's way too logical for our Universe. We need silliness in it just for the sake of arguing over it. Razz


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capitalduty





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PostPosted: Wed, 17. May 17, 23:41    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I am really looking forward to see more feedback from you; you are actually focusing on players prayers! I feel, if things get done well and you involve people on private beta or something, this is going to be the best X game ever. Just stick true to the name "X4" and it’s going to rock a lot!. We just want some gameplay that immerses the player in your beautiful universe. Not just randomly generated missions. But an actual longtime goal (economic powerhouse, military power, innocent’s protector, explorer, industrial empire) we want to have a little country on space someday  keep it as real as you can believe it! wars and all Razz and space nations really reacting to it…in not a magical thin air manner please!!.

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Ghrathryn





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PostPosted: Sat, 20. May 17, 00:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Since we seem to be able to question the developers, I'll toss a few into the ring.

1) Are ships and stations going to require 'command crews'?
2) Will we have to act as ferry to any required crew members?
3) What sort of 'command crew' layout is there going to be?
4) Will ships and stations have internal maps?
5) Will we need to land on a ship or station?
6) Can we transfer our character around or will we be stuck with one particular vessel?
7) Will there be a way to tell other vessels to take a hike or leave a target be should we wish to cap it?
Cool What are the limits on captures? Ships only? Stations? L or XL ships only?
9) Will we be able to get boarding aid from other vessels, particularly our own?
10) Can we set things so our ships/stations don't 'buy' goods from one another?
11) Will construction ships be replaced by part of the station they build, sit as a platform or be able to fly off after work is done?
12) Will crews have the ability to gain experience or be trained?
13) Are we limited to static build locations in each area or can we 'free build'?
14) How much 'customisation' will there be in regards to weapon fits for ships/stations? On/off or locations have 2 or 3 variant types to choose from?
15) If ships have crews, will we have hire them separately or will they be provided by the yard?



Last edited by Ghrathryn on Sat, 20. May 17, 12:18; edited 1 time in total
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Skeeter





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PostPosted: Sat, 20. May 17, 01:00    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Q to devs. Have u experimented or thought about a crew hire system which ok yes u do have a basic thing in but I'm on about say you see a ship its big say a destroyer you expect it has 400 plus crew bit like the enterprise had for example. Can you when you buy or cap one have a requirement/need to hire crew of this many. Say certain stations has crew to buy options so you go buy em, ferry em to your designated ship that's in shipyard just been built and it needs a full crew otherwise won't move. Or can't do everything like fire all weapons or jump. Maybe introduce a new ship type the personnel transport which can ferry crew from the certain stations to say the drydock to fill its capacity.


You could introduce a sorta system say.

1. Has been build and no crew so can't move.
2. Has basic crew like captain, engineer, pilot. Can do much except move slowly and no good in a fight as can't fire barely a shot due to say no crew.
3. Has some crew say crew Max is 400 but has 50. It can still do basic things but is better than without a work crew.
4. Has half crew 200/400 is at 50% efficiency can defend itself from weak attacks can move at half Max speed, etc.
5. Has full crew 400/400. Fully functional, can attack decently now, defend best it can depending on specs can use a jump drive now.

Crew can die tho so more they die the worse the ship gets.

Would make for a interesting game especially capship based gameplay.

Could work for stations too. Production and defence limited not just be stock anymore but how many crew are on and working.


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