May Calls General election

[Bishop149]

I didn't say we didn't get to vote on joining the EEC, because we aren't in the EEC any more. That wasn't what we voted to leave.

Well not specifically no, but in all likelihood based upon the Tories rhetoric thus far we WILL be leaving the EEC. It wasn't hard to predict this would be the outcome however, the only way to stay in the EEC would be the Sweden model which is all the commitment of the EU and none of the power so what would be the point.

Anyway you're quite right it's not what anyone voted for. What they voted for a vague poorly defined concept (actually scratch that: undefined concept) that's given those in power carte blanche to do what ever the hell they like and call it "the will of the people". . . . as long as it somehow involves loosening ties with the EU.

I have no idea how I'll vote in the general election TBH. Let surmise the options.
- Hell will freeze before I vote Tory. Nasty party is back with vengeance (it never really left) and Mrs May is up there for the vilest home secretary we've ever had. Human rights? What are those?
- Labour are a shambles, are probably too far to the left at the mo even for a raging lefty like me.
- The Lib Dems (my usual preference) can only hope for a coalition and TOTALLY failed to hold back the Tories last time. I now consider a vote for them to be pointless.
- Apart from their whole nationalism thing (Yeah I know a big "apart") I quite like the SNP but traditionally they don't run candidates outside Scotland.
- Other parties are a wasted vote.

So it becomes a question of how best to kick out the Tories and avoid a the economic suicide of a rock hard Brexit. I will research my best option for a tactical vote, I'm guessing it will probably be for Labour, that will be a first. Not that it matters anyway, I'm unlikely to be in one of the tiny number of constituencies that swing elections under our ridiculous electoral system. If I could only make one small change to the electoral system (rather than tearing it up and starting again) it would be to add a "Screw you all, we have one of the most unrepresentative electoral systems in the world, bloody change it!" box to the ballot paper. It would get my every vote.
The reason they don't is because it would probably win.

Edit:

But ask yourself this, what will happen when we are free of the the EU's rules on not being a tax haven?

Oh Christ, I only just saw that.
Uggg ok lets ignore the fact for a moment that the practice is morally bankrupt because I guess a lot of people just won't care, anything for a buck right?

Have you any idea what its like to LIVE in a tax haven if you aren't one of the ultra elite whom it benefits? Basically take all the social problems this country already has (especially in London) and multiply them by 10.
I know quite a lot of people from Bermuda. . . . why? They all essentially fled here to escape the bloody place.
Not all of them were poor either, apparently even for the bankers its no bloody fun. Apparently the amount dodgy dealing and corruption goes through the roof to the point where it actually becomes hazardous to their health.

[Chips]

Why do people think we will become a "Tax Haven"?
Can those that do define what, exactly, they mean by tax haven specifically. i.e which tax rate and what value it will take to make us said tax haven?

[Avis]

Sunderland was actually a marginal back in the 50s and 60s, and it was only in 1964 that the unbroken run of Labour results started. My constituency has been solid Labour since 1945, and I seriously doubt that will change even with Corbyn in charge. We'll have to see how it goes in the actual election, of course...

Fair comment, though having to go back over half a century to be 'marginal' doesn't really do justice to the electoral state of the city now.

Only last week the list of local authority fat cats was published, Sunderland can boast 3 of the top 5 overpaid scroungers,, I mean executives in the country at least there is one league table we're top of (not that I follow football anyway).

I agree. I wasn't saying the Tory vote would increase, but if too many natural Labour voters stay away, don't vote, then the result is the same. This General Election could well split the party. Guess who is waiting in the wings for such a thing? Tony Blair! Just how much of the core Labour supporters would vote for him?

I agree, I think you're spot on, Tory vote might not increase much but Labours vote will be lacking, the end result is the same at the ballot box.

Tony 'War Criminal Traitor' Blair as he's known up here if more toxic than Corbyn could ever be. a line often said is 'Tony Blair was the best Tory ever to lead the Labour Party'

[Santi]

Why do people think we will become a "Tax Haven"?
Can those that do define what, exactly, they mean by tax haven specifically. i.e which tax rate and what value it will take to make us said tax haven?

I think people refer to fiscal policy and what rates are applied to companies. Banks moved to the UK because the fiscal policy was very good for them compared with other countries in Europe. Actually that fiscal policy has been a thorn in the UK~EU relations for sometime now and the UK has used it as a negotiation asset many times.

Not going to happen in my opinion, it is something that people tend to forget, if the UK wants to do business with the EU, it will need to either use EU regulations or be playing in an even field. Of course the UK could be a fiscal paradise targeting the USA, China or Russia, but do not think it will happen.

[notaterran]

Have you any idea what its like to LIVE in a tax haven if you aren't one of the ultra elite whom it benefits?

The people in Switzerland seem to have a nice standard of living. Perhaps the Swiss don't worry too much about where the money comes from. There are already billions stashed in London, and probably billions more will flow through British banks. This is not something that I like to see, but apparently the Russian money has found many friends in the UK. The question is, will the British be as unconcerned about the money's origin as the Swiss have been.

[notaterran]

Of course the UK could be a fiscal paradise targeting the USA, China or Russia, but do not think it will happen.

There are already more than a few Russian billions stashed in London. Give it time

Vasile Sarco, an investigating officer in Moldova, told The Independent at the time of its original investigation: “This money was routed from Russia, but the companies incorporated in Britain were instrumental to transit the funds.”

The new documents reportedly reveal that, once laundered, some of the money was spent on diamonds from a jewellers in Bond Street, furs, chandeliers from a Chelsea boutique and boarding fees at Millfield, a prestigious public school in Somerset.

Link

[RegisterMe]

* Tories? I couldn't vote for a party that would put people like Johnson, Fox and Davis in charge of anything as important as Brexit.
* Labour? I couldn't vote for jokers like Corbyn and McDonnell. For a start the two of them are economically illiterate.
* Lib Dems? I couldn't vote for a party run by an evangelical Christian.

But voting is important. I guess I am headed for a spoil :-/.

[Bishop149]

Have you any idea what its like to LIVE in a tax haven if you aren't one of the ultra elite whom it benefits?

The people in Switzerland seem to have a nice standard of living. Perhaps the Swiss don't worry too much about where the money comes from. There are already billions stashed in London, and probably billions more will flow through British banks. This is not something that I like to see, but apparently the Russian money has found many friends in the UK. The question is, will the British be as unconcerned about the money's origin as the Swiss have been.

Switzerland is something of a special case, largely for historical reasons. Unfortunately even if we decided we were amoral enough to go for that model it isn't going to work, basically because only Switzerland gets to be Switzerland.
Nah if we wanted to be a tax haven we'd have to go the whole hog (Bermuda, Caymen islands etc) or else why bother. There already is an established not quite complete tax haven in Europe. . . . the aforementioned Swiss and we ain't gonna beat them at that game.

[Antilogic]

* Lib Dems? I couldn't vote for a party run by an evangelical Christian.

You know my opinions on religion, and I'm fairly happy with Farron. He does a good job of understanding that his personal beliefs are his own and not letting them affect the party stance. Unlike May, who preaches about God from the door of 10 Downing Street on a daily basis.

[Bishop149]

Headdesk

Oh well might as well give up then, another fine example of how broken our electoral system is. So if Labour beat the Tories in terms of vote share by damn near 7% of the registered vote it wouldn't be enough to kick them out.
Wonderful system we have innit.

So in conclusion our only hope is a large number of Tory voters changing their minds, yeah I won't hold my breath.

[brucewarren]

Still possible. Mind you so is getting hit by lightning from a blue sky so I'm not holding my breath either.

There's a school of thought that says opposition parties don't win elections so much as governments lose them.

It depends on how well or how badly Mrs May performs her job over the next few weeks. If she does a good job or even moderately well she gets a landslide. If she went full Donald on us I think even the most ardent Conservative voters might turn against her.

[Chips]

Headdesk

Oh well might as well give up then, another fine example of how broken our electoral system is. So if Labour beat the Tories in terms of vote share by damn near 7% of the registered vote it wouldn't be enough to kick them out.
Wonderful system we have innit.

So in conclusion our only hope is a large number of Tory voters changing their minds, yeah I won't hold my breath.

Spin is spin... the same applies for every election in history (including the ones won by Labour). e.g. Tories got 700,000 votes fewer than Labour in one election, yet Labour had +247 seats over the Conservatives. You could start crunching numbers for other parties ganging up with tactical voting to find whether it'd make a blind bit of difference in most of those elections too.

[philip_hughes]

Don't worry, there is still hope. North Korea could figure out how to make nukes and put us all out of our misery

[greypanther]

Don't worry, there is still hope. North Korea could figure out how to make nukes and put us all out of our misery

It's OK, Australians would inherit the world, it is likely to be mostly the Northern Hemisphere that would suffer. I doubt fatty is targeting Australia.

[philip_hughes]

If it got that bad, the resulting nuclear winter would mean that nothing larger than a dog could survive within a few years. Rest assured, we will die, just a lot slower, due to starvation.

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

I have no idea who I'm gonna vote for. I know it definitely won't be the tories.
If Corbyn is replaced before it, then maybe I'd go for labour... if not it would have to be the lib dems... and as an atheist I can't be okay with that...
Ugh.

Maybe I'll just vote for myself.

[philip_hughes]

I have no idea who I'm gonna vote for. I know it definitely won't be the tories.
If Corbyn is replaced before it, then maybe I'd go for labour... if not it would have to be the lib dems... and as an atheist I can't be okay with that...
Ugh.

Maybe I'll just vote for myself.

Brexit/trump/pauline hanson in a nutshell

[notaterran]

Have you any idea what its like to LIVE in a tax haven if you aren't one of the ultra elite whom it benefits?

The people in Switzerland seem to have a nice standard of living. Perhaps the Swiss don't worry too much about where the money comes from. There are already billions stashed in London, and probably billions more will flow through British banks. This is not something that I like to see, but apparently the Russian money has found many friends in the UK. The question is, will the British be as unconcerned about the money's origin as the Swiss have been.

Switzerland is something of a special case, largely for historical reasons. Unfortunately even if we decided we were amoral enough to go for that model it isn't going to work, basically because only Switzerland gets to be Switzerland.
Nah if we wanted to be a tax haven we'd have to go the whole hog (Bermuda, Caymen islands etc) or else why bother. There already is an established not quite complete tax haven in Europe. . . . the aforementioned Swiss and we ain't gonna beat them at that game.

My point is that Russian fat cats have ALREADY found a welcoming shelter in the UK, and are using British banks to stash or launder their money. Going back to mrbadger's question, perhaps an improved version of Gordon Brown's "light touch" could make London as competitive (or amoral, depends on how you see it) as Switzerland?

[Morkonan]

An Ignorant American ™ appears...

So, can anyone, for the benefit of the woefully uninformed, describe the U.K.'s various political groups in once sentence for each? Just so someone who has no real clue can discover how constituents see these groups and how they believe they effect/affect/defect U.K. politics...

As an example, here are the 'Murican political parties and their descriptions:

Republicans: Gun toting, testosterone-fueled, patriots who are against increasing the power of the government over the people, but use government regulations or the repeal of same to generate vast wealth and power for themselves, or those who lobby and pay them, and then use this money to retain their power.

Rally Cry: Freedom at any cost, so long as that cost is paid to me.

Democrats: Wealthy intellectual effete milksops who champion the cause of the oppressed and the discriminated against by carrying signs and blaming Republicans for the Sun rising and for the lack of government programs designed to give money to those who need it, but never seem to get it, before Ubering to the next rally to collect campaign donations from lobbying groups who control the popular media and most of the public education that generates the headlines and espouse vague ideals which will keep them in power.

Rally Cry: Freedom at any cost, so long as that cost is paid to me.

Libertarians: A relatively new political group comprised mostly of young, partially-educated-enough-to-be-dangerous, fedora-wearing champions of the U.S. Constitution that believe that every problem can be solved by nobody actually doing anything about it and that anyone in government who does something that attempts to control against a social or economic problem happening must then be the cause of the problem.

Rally Cry: Freedom at any cost, so long as nobody really knows what that cost may be and someone, somewhere, say's the word "Constitutional!"

The Tea Party: Politicians who have attempted to gain power, money, and paid public-speaking engagements, by poking sticks into political ant-hills filled with angry people with guns who have either just lost their semi-skilled labor jobs or have decided that they are very angry about something because being angry about something at least gives them something to be angry about.

Rally Cry: I AM ANGRY, RAWR, SO PASS THE AMMUNITION! <gunfire>

Independent: Politicians who have discovered that they can avoid the blame that assaults many other political parties by pretending to not actually be a member of a political party, even though they tend to swim in whatever current is the most powerful, which is usually generated by the passing of intestinal gasses of whatever political party is the most influential in their districts.

Rally Cry: No matter what it is, it's not my fault!

Other: Politicians that never get elected, but probably publish a magazine or website, somewhere, who gain the support of at least ten people, yet manage to secure headlines in regional news publications that make them seem more powerful, so they can get donations from mostly obscure, exploited, groups of people that allow them to afford their next mortgage payment.

Rally Cry: We know things suck, but you can't really mean that someone really wants to elect us?


PS - Somewhat OT, in jest, but I would really like to know what some of the people impacted by this call for elections feel about the various political parties involved in their government, in as light-hearted, yet somewhat revealing, non-confrontational, non-biased way as possible. That could happen, right?

[brucewarren]

I'll have a go but bear in mind that it's politics so there is bound to be a lot of bias in the answer.

There are three main parties, two large parties and a much smaller third party.

The parities are:

The Conservatives who consider themselves free marketeers. They'll privatise stuff because the market knows best. Considered centre right. Their enemies will accuse them of being in the pockets of the corporations.

The Labour party were created by the Trades Unions and still have close ties to them. Like to nationalise stuff because government knows better than the market. Considered centre left. Their enemies will accuse them of being in the pockets of the unions.

The Liberal Democrats. Also considered centre left. Possibly slightly further to the left than labour. Very much smaller than the two big parties these days. Fond of electoral reform, the rights of the citizen, and the EU. Their enemies will accuse them of being able to hold a full party conference in a telephone kiosk and of being fond of electoral reform because it would increase their number of seats. Also accused of being a little too fond of our European partners.

There are other parties, such as the Greens who could be considered centre left but their primary focus is trying to stop the planet getting all dirty and polluted and there are a number of Independents - Folks who belong to no party and are only interested in their local constituency.

Naturally each party thinks they are the only ones capable of forming a sane economic strategy - the other guys would quickly put the country in the poor house, and in the ensuing chaos the Four Horsemen would ride out.

In a UK election the economy is usually the biggest issue. There's no surer way of throwing away an election than being accused of taxing too much, not having costed your plans properly, or proposing anything that will make folk poorer or increase unemployment.

A naive person might equate the Conservatives with the Republicans and the Labour party with the Democrats but this would in error. From this side of the pond both American parties appear very much further to the right.