Using M4s and M5s in trade network in early game

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Post Reply
FriendlyFirePhoenix
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue, 14. Feb 17, 10:06
x3ap

Using M4s and M5s in trade network in early game

Post by FriendlyFirePhoenix » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 05:33

Hi folks

Through plots, bails and jumpgate sales I've come into ownership of several M4s and M5s, as I'm sure most players do. I'm in the early game with just a few mil in the bank. I know I can just sell them but that seems a bit boring.

I was thinking of giving them CLS software and using them as traps in small volume tech factories like microchip, quantum tube facts etc. I am heavily inspired by the CLS guides by Timsup2nothing. However, his guides all use TS ships. Is this sort of thing feasible with small fighters?

These places produce such small volumes I'm not sure if it's worth it. I'm not yet at the stage I can just feed these facts all the resources they need.
I already have some M5s exploring and using for errands here and there and dropping satellites. I'm specifically looking for good ways to use these ships in trade networks. I made a thread about this on Reddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/X3TC/comments/ ... etwork_in/ and was somewhat disappointed with the response.

Hoping to hear some cool trade network scenarios using small ships! :idea:

Timsup2nothin
Posts: 4690
Joined: Thu, 22. Jan 09, 17:49

Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 05:53

Personally I use those ships to sell space fuel. I park a wrecked TS ship at each distillery set to buy cheap (not too cheap or they don't get any). Then I set the small ships to load a small quantity and haul it to any pirate base that I find in race space, where it sells for max price. Also the trading station in Herron's of course.

Sometimes they get blown up. Sometimes they actually get scanned by cops and boot their cargo. Sometimes the pirate base gets blown up and they sit idle until I notice. After a little while I get so popular with the pirates that I feel safe sending full speed M5s down pirate alley to the trading station in Akeela's.

The operation makes credits at a reasonable pace. Certainly enough to cover what I could make selling the ships. It also gives me a pretty good source of experienced pilots.

You can do similar things with small missiles and such, but it won't make much money. A wrecked TS can buy them at the factory, but usually not for really cheap, and then M5s can run small amounts to various EqDs and such for average price.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

User avatar
Ripskar
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon, 22. Feb 10, 19:18
x3ap

Post by Ripskar » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 09:31

Possible though I always use TPs for tech trading.
Higher end weapons (not counting missiles) don't take a huge amount of room, a factory only produces 8 HEPTs at a time.
Obviously you'll be limited to M cargo (M4 & Discos) so M3s might be more capable and the M5s wouldn't even be able to do that.
They tend to be an alternative to a satellite and storage crate for random gubbins I don't need but don't want to sell either.
Do you miss dangerous pirates?
Try leading the target a little more...

ImageCobra Mk. III Cmdr.

FriendlyFirePhoenix
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue, 14. Feb 17, 10:06
x3ap

Post by FriendlyFirePhoenix » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 12:57

@Timsup2nothin

I feel giddy. Like I've just met a celebrity.

I am looking forward to giving this a try. Unfortunately the pirates loathe me like my kid loathes vegetables so it won't be easy to put this plan into action. I have some mods installed, including true relations from Improved Races 2 so every action which impresses a race just makes the pirates even angrier. I suppose the Herron's Nebulae trade station is less of an issue, so I might start with that.

Also I've read elsewhere the police only scan your player ship. Do they really scan your other property too?

@Timsup2nothin & @Ripskar

What about computer components, microchips or quantum tubes? These are all S sized cargo that any 'ol M5 can lug around. Or is there just not profit in these?

Triaxx2
Posts: 7229
Joined: Tue, 29. Dec 09, 02:15
x4

Post by Triaxx2 » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 14:12

Quantum Tubes I don't know a good sink for, but Computer Components and Microchips are good sellers. Unfortunately I don't think the profit margin is too high.

Strangely, and counter-intuitively, I find Energy Cells to be the best money maker with M5/M4 traders. While the profit margins are tiny, and at TS size wouldn't make much, at M4 size, they're just enough you'll be making a constant profit, and they're fast enough to get to stations and sell before bigger NPC ships slice off all your profits.
A Pirate's Revenge Completed Now in PDF by _Zap_
APR Book 2: Best Served Cold Updated 8/5/2016

The Tale of Ea't s'Quid Completed

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

User avatar
Ripskar
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon, 22. Feb 10, 19:18
x3ap

Post by Ripskar » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 14:28

Very rare you can get them at a decent price, as such the profit margin is pathetic unless you're building them.
Do you miss dangerous pirates?
Try leading the target a little more...

ImageCobra Mk. III Cmdr.

Honved
Posts: 1252
Joined: Sun, 20. Jun 10, 14:53
x3tc

Post by Honved » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 14:59

Except for dealing in a few high-value items like Crystals, Computer parts, and weapons, the limited storage capacity of M4 and M5 fighters will barely (if at all) cover the salaries of the pilots, particularly as they gain experience and demand more money. You can assign them as CLS pilots to move only those specific goods, and make it work, but otherwise you're better off selling the ships and buying a few TS freighters.

Granted, in a couple of games, I've dedicated a bailed Buster Hauler or other fighter that I had on hand as a CAG for a less critical factory in order to train up a pilot. Once the pilot got some experience and I had a TS available in the vicinity, I transferred them to the TS.

Timsup2nothin
Posts: 4690
Joined: Thu, 22. Jan 09, 17:49

Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 17:43

FriendlyFirePhoenix wrote: What about computer components, microchips or quantum tubes? These are all S sized cargo that any 'ol M5 can lug around. Or is there just not profit in these?
These can be profitable because they are consumed as secondary resources. But setting up distribution that will buy them cheap is hard, because NPCs tend to buy them as soon as they get below average prices. NPCs also tend to unload them at buyers before the buyers reach even the reduced maximum price for a secondary resource. So the only way to make good profits here is if you have a strong enough network to genuinely corner the supply, and that's gonna take more than M5/M4 shipping.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

AleksMain
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu, 21. Sep 06, 11:05
x3tc

Re: Using M4s and M5s in trade network in early game

Post by AleksMain » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 18:49

FriendlyFirePhoenix wrote:Hi folks

Through plots, bails and jumpgate sales I've come into ownership of several M4s and M5s, as I'm sure most players do. I'm in the early game with just a few mil in the bank. I know I can just sell them but that seems a bit boring.

I was thinking of giving them CLS software and using them as traps in small volume tech factories like microchip, quantum tube facts etc. I am heavily inspired by the CLS guides by Timsup2nothing. However, his guides all use TS ships. Is this sort of thing feasible with small fighters?

These places produce such small volumes I'm not sure if it's worth it. I'm not yet at the stage I can just feed these facts all the resources they need.
I already have some M5s exploring and using for errands here and there and dropping satellites. I'm specifically looking for good ways to use these ships in trade networks. I made a thread about this on Reddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/X3TC/comments/ ... etwork_in/ and was somewhat disappointed with the response.

Hoping to hear some cool trade network scenarios using small ships! :idea:

I think, that better to sell all such ships and buy some other ship(s).

If you want to trade, then buy TS ship(s).

If you want to fight, then buy better battle ship.

Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 27829
Joined: Thu, 15. May 03, 20:57
x4

Post by Nanook » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 20:01

FriendlyFirePhoenix wrote:...
Also I've read elsewhere the police only scan your player ship. Do they really scan your other property too?...
Yes, they do. If you want to use your M5/M4 collection for such duty, make sure you use fast ones with fully upgraded speed. It lessens the risks.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

User avatar
jorganos
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu, 12. Aug 04, 14:04
x3tc

Post by jorganos » Thu, 13. Apr 17, 23:00

IMO it depends on the type of M4 and M5 you can buy.

I tend to keep a certain number of these for those situations where a stranded pilot wants a ship of his faction (homesickness sales). While the investment may take some cash out of your flow, the margin can easily be 100fold. You do need to get them into place quick enough, though - making that used TM an essential buy, even if it has only one decent marine on board. (The others can be used to increase the value of TP homesickness sales.)

If used for trading, they should have enough speed to escape pirates or police and be able to carry M class cargo. If slower than 210 m/s, M4 make no sense, and should be sold. M4+ make quite good escorts, unless they are Teladi in origin. Still, fighter drones do this job well, too.

M5 with built-in triplex scanner make excellent scouts and should be equipped with explorer software. Mineral scanners cannot hurt, either.

M5 with M cargo and cargo life support system can be held in reserve near jump gates for individual passenger missions.,

Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 27829
Joined: Thu, 15. May 03, 20:57
x4

Post by Nanook » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 00:47

jorganos wrote:IMO it depends on the type of M4 and M5 you can buy....
The OP isn't buying new ships, he's collecting used and captured ships so his choices are somewhat limited.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

Timsup2nothin
Posts: 4690
Joined: Thu, 22. Jan 09, 17:49

Post by Timsup2nothin » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 02:10

Nanook wrote:
FriendlyFirePhoenix wrote:...
Also I've read elsewhere the police only scan your player ship. Do they really scan your other property too?...
Yes, they do. If you want to use your M5/M4 collection for such duty, make sure you use fast ones with fully upgraded speed. It lessens the risks.
The other key is to limit their cargo. I've never gone broke from a CLS pilot kicking a half dozen space fuel overboard.

However, I once had a CLS mercury set to buy cheap and sell for max running back and forth in Herron's right at the start of a game. He was buying all I could afford (not much, but growing) and more than doubling my money each run...until he jettisoned my entire fortune.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

Triaxx2
Posts: 7229
Joined: Tue, 29. Dec 09, 02:15
x4

Post by Triaxx2 » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 13:28

Hire apprentices and don't give them Trading System Extensions, so they'll never level up. Apprentices don't get paid. Internships for everyone.
A Pirate's Revenge Completed Now in PDF by _Zap_
APR Book 2: Best Served Cold Updated 8/5/2016

The Tale of Ea't s'Quid Completed

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

hisazul
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat, 15. Oct 11, 04:12
xr

Post by hisazul » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 21:13

That would not be X universe then, it be china/america.
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” - Albert Einstein

FriendlyFirePhoenix
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue, 14. Feb 17, 10:06
x3ap

Post by FriendlyFirePhoenix » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 04:51

Thanks for the advice folks.

I'm currently setting up a whisky run from Nyana's Hideout. I buy the whisky in a Mercury hulk. The booze is transported to another hulk in Eighteen Billion by a Logistician equipped with a Jumpdrive (to get past my good friends the Xenon). Then a bunch of M5s and M4s transport the booze from there to Montalaar and Akeela's beacon. The booze is sold at the trading stations in those sectors. I'll let you know how it all goes. I'm fully upgrading every smuggler's speed to keep them away from the fuzz.

I'm also trying a similar plan with Space weed. I'm using a freighter to feed the dream farm in Eighteen Billion. Another freighter then transports the Swamp plant to the two Bliss places in Scale Plate Green. (Yes - the same freighter takes booze to Eighteen Billion and then grabs swamp plant from Eighteen Billion) I'll then use light fighters to sell the Space weed.

I am peripherally aware that weed isn't illegal in Teladi space so I could just use a freighter to take the weed to various trade stations. But meh. I gotta use 'dem M5s and M4s for something.

I did try to do some trading with Qtubes, Computers and microchips but it was all a bit meh. Just like you folks said. Will tackle that market when I've got more cash to splash.

Ronin/Outrider
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed, 5. Apr 17, 00:11

Post by Ronin/Outrider » Tue, 18. Apr 17, 23:45

If you haven't pissed off the Yaki (only mentioned pirates thusfar), there's 2 booze fabs in weavers tempest and 2 weapons fabs that use booze.

Since nobody else trades down there, you can buy booze at min and sell most of the way to max (along with wheat, energy, and ore at/near max price).

FriendlyFirePhoenix
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue, 14. Feb 17, 10:06
x3ap

Post by FriendlyFirePhoenix » Fri, 21. Apr 17, 16:13

@Ronin I have pissed the Yaki off something fierce unfortunately. Because of 'True Relations' mod, anything I do which impresses a race, annoys it's enemies. So since the Yaki are enemies with everyone it's very hard to not become their enemy. Otherwise I'd love to sell them booze.

My space fuel run is making money rather nciely. The weed is working out well too. I transport the weed from Scale Plate Green to a hulk in Eighteen Billion. This is so I can pick up the weed with fighters and take it to the Paranid trade dock in Trinity Sanctum. The three eyed psychos buy it at full price. When that is full, I just sell at one of the many Teladi trade docks nearby. The cops have only caught me once so far and the brave little M5 pilot made it out alive. Very fun.

ajime
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon, 15. May 17, 09:00
x4

Post by ajime » Wed, 17. May 17, 05:07

FriendlyFirePhoenix wrote:Thanks for the advice folks.

I'm currently setting up a whisky run from Nyana's Hideout. I buy the whisky in a Mercury hulk. The booze is transported to another hulk in Eighteen Billion by a Logistician equipped with a Jumpdrive (to get past my good friends the Xenon). Then a bunch of M5s and M4s transport the booze from there to Montalaar and Akeela's beacon. The booze is sold at the trading stations in those sectors. I'll let you know how it all goes. I'm fully upgrading every smuggler's speed to keep them away from the fuzz.

I'm also trying a similar plan with Space weed. I'm using a freighter to feed the dream farm in Eighteen Billion. Another freighter then transports the Swamp plant to the two Bliss places in Scale Plate Green. (Yes - the same freighter takes booze to Eighteen Billion and then grabs swamp plant from Eighteen Billion) I'll then use light fighters to sell the Space weed.

I am peripherally aware that weed isn't illegal in Teladi space so I could just use a freighter to take the weed to various trade stations. But meh. I gotta use 'dem M5s and M4s for something.

I did try to do some trading with Qtubes, Computers and microchips but it was all a bit meh. Just like you folks said. Will tackle that market when I've got more cash to splash.
actually i liked using capped m4's as cargo transporter when attached to a TL. i usually get a high hangar bay TL like ryu/elephant and have it floating in profit center alpha. the since it has 12 hangar bays, i used 11 as distribution and 3/4 as supply buying(so it doesnt get stuck when the disti's are waiting for supplies in hangar. Now thinking to implement using a carrier after having 10 TL's across the sectors doing their job so i can manage less amount of capships for disti. :lol:

ancienthighway
Posts: 1663
Joined: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 05:25
x4

Post by ancienthighway » Sat, 27. May 17, 00:48

For the most part, I sell what I capture (or buy 2nd hand), to include all M4s.
FriendlyFirePhoenix wrote:
I am looking forward to giving this a try. Unfortunately the pirates loathe me like my kid loathes vegetables so it won't be easy to put this plan into action?
Unless you've attacked the station, pirate bases will allow you to land and trade. If you have a problem with hostile ships, an Advanced Satellite will warn your trader and it will dock until the threat is clear. Or don't use a sat and just use speed to out run the pirates.

As far as the tech and armaments trading, I prefer to use TPs, and many times they are directed unscheduled flights.

Look into getting a couple of TMs, an M7C, an Elephant or Ryu. Don't forget a transporter device. Put a couple of those captured ships onboard equipped with upgrades needed to jump medium and big ships to safety, and park captured small ships onboaard to deal with later.

If you do go the route of M7Cs and TLs, use similar fighters as onboard escorts (keep their speeds within 5m/s of each other).

Post Reply

Return to “X Trilogy Universe”