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Concerning X4
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rrfarmer



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PostPosted: Thu, 16. Feb 17, 19:33    Post subject: Concerning X4 Reply with quote Print

Someone please send Egosoft this book, so they can make good menus for X4

https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Make-Think-Revisited-Usability/dp/0321965515

<3

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Toramo





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PostPosted: Fri, 17. Feb 17, 13:44    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Laughing
I agree Smile

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Graaf



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PostPosted: Fri, 17. Feb 17, 20:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Trade Fight Build DontMakeMeThink?


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ShoC





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PostPosted: Sat, 18. Feb 17, 16:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I don't like the rebirth gui but certainly do like x3ap gui

We must remember there is so many functions we can perform that sort of gui is best placed.
My personal opinion however. I'd like a return to it


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FlightJunkie





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PostPosted: Sat, 18. Feb 17, 21:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Oh snap Surprised


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gbjbaanb





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PostPosted: Sun, 19. Feb 17, 22:16    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ShoC wrote:
I don't like the rebirth gui but certainly do like x3ap gui

We must remember there is so many functions we can perform that sort of gui is best placed.
My personal opinion however. I'd like a return to it


or an improvement on the X3AP GUI - which although is better than the twitch-gamer UI of Rebirth, could have been improved with a bit of consistency, speed and alternative ways of accessing it - so sidebars for the ships that are selected, group selection of ships and apply menus to them, maybe reassign menu commands to a short-cut menu that's bound to the function keys or similar.

The complexity of what many people are asking for in X4 suggests that we need the old menu-driven UI in order to have the wealth of commands to apply to our in-game assets.

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Cucumber King





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PostPosted: Mon, 20. Feb 17, 03:46    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I wish they'd make the menus feel as responsive as those in your OS of choice.

I'm quite sure that the tempation is there to have those 3D floating menus and lots of glitter but I'd urge EGOSOFT to consider a minimalist approach, with design languages such as material design for Android serving as inspiration.

Especially as more and more data becomes available to the player, a cleaner interface can decrease the perceived overwhelming nature of it. Sorting and searching could play a role here... Let players type!

Let's hope EGOSOFT have ditched the "controller first" mentality by now.

Mouse and keyboard allow for much more efficient input when handling what will hopefully be the scalable complexity of X4.

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Général Grievous





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PostPosted: Mon, 20. Feb 17, 14:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The best way i think is to make a tree (like Nexus: The jupiter incident), on the left side of your screen
A strategical map, like we can find on Homeworld or on the new "Avorion" game could be a very good thing too.

This way you can easely manage all your proprieties as fast and as simply as possible.

Anyway it is clear that the GUI of X3 was better than X Rebirth one.


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carran





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PostPosted: Mon, 20. Feb 17, 15:12    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

At least with X3 I knew what I was doing and more importantly, why I was doing it

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Cucumber King





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PostPosted: Thu, 23. Feb 17, 10:20    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Has there been any news on an RTS like interface a la Limit Theory?

It could help fleet management immensely if you could just drag and click to send and have a strategic 3D in-game overview of the sector.

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spankahontis





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PostPosted: Fri, 24. Feb 17, 00:29    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Not had a problem with the interface of Rebirth, 4.0 is way better than the 1.0.
I found Reunion to AP to be more difficult to understand at first, minimal is good but too minimal needs to be avoided.
I found Rebirth cleaned up allot of the complexity of the UI, and numerical systems for choosing modes, hubs, etc. on the keyboard made things smoother for me.

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deadmoomin





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PostPosted: Thu, 30. Mar 17, 05:32    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The dilemma is: do you want a game which enables the player to have fine grain control? or do you want a simple, shallow game where the player has very little control?

The level of control in X3 required a fairly complex UI. After getting over the initial learning curve, I actually found X3's UI to be extremely logical and flexible.

There comes a point where you can't reduce the requirement of thought in a game without first reducing the complexity of the game. I love X3 for its complexity and its UI was fit for purpose.

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linolafett
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PostPosted: Thu, 30. Mar 17, 11:32    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I got the lovely task of taking care of the UI in X4 and hope it will be useful for you as a user. There were quie a few threads already in the forum regarding UI behaviour: These threads are not wasted, i try to keep feedback in my mind when doing stuff.

I cant really say a lot regarding details, but some general things probably wont change anymore.

Main focus for me is to reduce the amount of clicks to do actions.
Buying a capital ship in XR with full equipment could take about 50 clicks. This was caused by layers, of layers of ui (sliders could not be inside a table, and had to be done in a new seperated menu).
We added this functionality now for X4. proper slider elements inside a table where you can also type in numbers (e.g for trading).
That was a must to condense the Menus massively.

Of course sometimes saving a click here and there will be problematic, so compromises have to be made to keep the overall behaviour of the Ui coherent.

In addition to that, i try to have often used interactions more prominent and the "hardcore" player functionalty not always directly exposed, to keep the Ui a bit easier to read and understand.


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Caldazar





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PostPosted: Thu, 30. Mar 17, 12:37    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Thank you for the response, lino. Always interesting to get some insight into the development process.

linolafett wrote:
Main focus for me is to reduce the amount of clicks to do actions.
Buying a capital ship in XR with full equipment could take about 50 clicks. This was caused by layers, of layers of ui (sliders could not be inside a table, and had to be done in a new seperated menu).


Ah, I've always wondered why that was done in a sub menu.

linolafett wrote:
We added this functionality now for X4. proper slider elements inside a table where you can also type in numbers (e.g for trading).
That was a must to condense the Menus massively.


That is very nice to hear. Will there also be keyboard shortcuts to set to min/max?

linolafett wrote:
I try to keep feedback in my mind when doing stuff.


Then I'd like to use the opportunity to mention my personal pet peeve with the UI in the newer X-Games: I'd really love to have a complete and consistent set of keyboard commands. Read: I do not have to use the mouse and the same button usually does the same thing.

For example, I would like to dock my ship without fiddling with my mouse until I manage to click a small icon that moves relative to my ship.

I'm aware that this is probably not a mainstream concern, but I still want to ask: Where are good keyboard shortcuts on the priority list for X4?

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linolafett
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PostPosted: Thu, 30. Mar 17, 13:33    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Caldazar wrote:

Then I'd like to use the opportunity to mention my personal pet peeve with the UI in the newer X-Games: I'd really love to have a complete and consistent set of keyboard commands. Read: I do not have to use the mouse and the same button usually does the same thing.


As i am currently doing a UI for mouse input, the keyboard input is by far not optimal.
Cases like having seperated tables and buttons on screen are an issue. Its difficult to get with ease in a different area of the ui without the mouse.
I am aware of it, but did not work on this behaviour so far.
It is neccessary to "fix" these cases for later controller input. I would like for joystick players and console controller to also be able to use the ui.
As the mouse/keyboard is the main input, expect a slower naviagation without a mouse.

Caldazar wrote:

For example, I would like to dock my ship without fiddling with my mouse until I manage to click a small icon that moves relative to my ship.

Shift+D makes you dock, if you have the docking software installed and are nearby the dockarea.
Shift+D again to undock.

Caldazar wrote:

I'm aware that this is probably not a mainstream concern, but I still want to ask: Where are good keyboard shortcuts on the priority list for X4?

Shortcuts are not my area of work. I cant really comment on this.


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