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Honved





Joined: 20 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed, 15. Feb 17, 18:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
(Those multi-ocular freaks are eating the stuff far faster than they are making it - for once, I think the shortage may be more a case of fundamental lack of supply, than the usual dearth of distribution.)

Either that, or some freighter pilot has found a lucrative trade route by taking Soya Husk and delivering it to the various Trade Stations (where it gradually vanishes from the game), rather than to the factories (where it is required for the manufacture of other goods).

There are opportunities in several regions for additional food factories, and it takes a little bit of time and experience to spot where the bottlenecks are, either in production or distribution. Until/unless you either count up and compare all of the buyers against all of the sellers of each commodity in an area, or notice that improving delivery of a needed resource still hasn't solved the shortage, and that an additional factory is needed, you're really guessing as to what stations to build. In some cases, you just have to build the station and see whether it sells well or not. Obviously, if there's already a local surplus of that resource, building another factory is probably a bad idea.

Keeping 1.5Mil in credits is probably a criminal waste of capital which could be earning money, but there are a exceptional circumstances where it could pay off. Like anything else, it's a calculated risk.

Finding an NPC selling a surplus M3 or SuperFreighter XL (the ship has a golden "cent" symbol above it, meaning that the owner either has a trade deal for you or wants to sell the ship) would be one possibiliy where a few spare credits could help, but if the asking price is over 1M, it's probably overpriced anyway. Normally, if the hull condition is really low (not much over 50%), the price is usually seriously cheap (I've found a few Novas for around 100K credits), and you can make a million or more with a few minutes of EVA time with your suit's repair laser. If the condition is higher, the price is often not much less than that of a new ship, and you won't recover your investment by selling it "used". Worse, if the condition is over about 80%, there's a real possibility that the asking price will be higher than "full list price". If the ship is in flight, the odds of getting any equipment that's on the ship are really poor (yet the price includes it); if docked, the odds of getting the equipment with the ship seem to be a lot higher, and I've even gotten a few decently trained Marines with a used ship which was docked at the time.

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-John-





Joined: 16 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu, 16. Feb 17, 01:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Had to work today,no game time;what a drag,lol.
I have 4 traders going now and a 5th I bought last night;havent set him up yet but I think I will have him hauling ore out of Ore Belt.
The only bad thing, there are no SPPs close by. Will have to get energy from Power Circle.
I also need to check the stations I am buying from to feed the stations to which I sell ore at,and see what other resources they need to stay in business.
Im making credits,not much,some. Sometimes I see a loss;but,when I see my ore seller moving, I know its gonna be a profit,sometimes good, sometimes just a small one.
Need more Solar PPs around,lol.
Im hoping I got all these little guys set up well enough. I didnt set a buy or sell price;I used average and most only purchasing half a cargo;may be a flaw in my reasoning but I thought that would be safer for now.
Man,,,,,after reading what you guys have posted;wondering if I will ever get there,hahahahaha.
Lot to learn.
Is it a cheat (once you have your traders going) to leave your game running and leave it and do other things around the house?
Many many thank yous,
and many Xenon kills to you (one day I will get there to;just not yet)
John

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RAVEN.myst





Joined: 20 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Thu, 16. Feb 17, 01:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

-John- wrote:
Had to work today,no game time;what a drag,lol.

Reality is merely a crutch for those who can't handle their... videogames? (The original uses a different noun at the end, hehehe)

-John- wrote:
The only bad thing, there are no SPPs close by. Will have to get energy from Power Circle.
...
Need more Solar PPs around,lol.

The advantage with SPPs being somewhat sparse is that NPC traders get hit by that, too, and so you end up with high demand. Asymmetric SPP placement works for you, as you will (usually) find that sectors away from the SPP concentrations have constant energy shortages (pronounced "player profit opportunities" Very Happy .) In the Argon Prime district, the NE area has the highest concentration (Power Circle, Antigone Memorial, The Hole, The Wall, sometimes one at President's End), meaning that those areas are well provided by energy - but that also means that the W/SW areas are dark, and in desperate need of "enlightening". The West are happens to also be the farthest, on average, from your local ore mines, thus Red Light is a good customer for both ECs and ore.


-John- wrote:
Im hoping I got all these little guys set up well enough. I didnt set a buy or sell price;I used average and most only purchasing half a cargo;may be a flaw in my reasoning but I thought that would be safer for now.

Average price is good for training purposes, when your routes have limited stops, so you want to improve the odds of the freighter making trades - but as you add stops to the routes with pilot levels, you will eventually want to widen the margins - lower buy prices, raise sell prices. A *very* generalised rule of thumb (at least, in my experience) is to set halfway between average and the extreme - so, for example, buying E-cells at 14 and selling at 18. However, even this is just a ballpark, as often, once you have sufficient SPPs on a route, you can safely set the buy price to minimum and still not incur downtime in your trader. I find that, in general, you can get closer to minimum buy than you can to maximum sell.

As for half cargo bays - that's useful for when you are using multi-stop multi-ware routes - so, for example, pick up EC from SPP, sell it at wheat farm and buy wheat, go to bakery/rimes fact/moonshine distillery and sell wheat and ECs, buy product. In such cases, yes, using half-cargo reduces (or even removes, if handling only 2 wares) the odds of your freighter getting stuck with a load it can't sell while there is stuff for it to buy. However, as your pilots gain experience and thus possible route length, and as your total owned CLS2 traders increase in number, you will *generally* want to specialise them to single wares - in that case, full cargo holds are obviously twice as efficient.


-John- wrote:
Man,,,,,after reading what you guys have posted;wondering if I will ever get there,hahahahaha.
Lot to learn.

You'll get there - and as long as you're more about the journey than the destination, you'll very likely enjoy the trip Smile


-John- wrote:
Is it a cheat (once you have your traders going) to leave your game running and leave it and do other things around the house?

That's entirely up to you to decide. Here's my take (totally subjective, please note!) - if you are running a courier/logistics company, your trucks/trains/planes/ship etc don't stop running their deliveries while you're not in the office, right? Of course, technically they too work shifts, and not round the clock - but who's to say that your CLS2 truck driver isn't actually two people who alternate? And in the case of a ship, hell, those sail around the clock until they get where they're going, right? And if you ask me, space freighters would probably be more like ships than trucks.

Something I personally don't do, as I find it cheesy, but it's in no way "invalid" I suppose, is to turn on SETA and leave it running for hours - to me that feels like cheating, but again, that's totally a subjective, personal opinion, nothing more. (I like to explain my reluctance by supposing that leaving a naked singularity affecting one place for a prolonged period must SURELY be dangerous - wouldn't that risk a tear in the continuum, or the creation of a gateway to a country music festival or something? At the very least, might it not affect ME on perhaps a genetic level, or cause hair tumours, or something...? Razz )


Happy profiteering! Smile


EDIT: Added the missing "Antigone Memorial" which I had somehow forgotten, despite many of my Argon games being BASED there! Thanks to jlehtone for the reminder Smile


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Last edited by RAVEN.myst on Thu, 16. Feb 17, 02:17; edited 1 time in total
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jlehtone



MEDALMEDALMEDAL

Joined: 23 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu, 16. Feb 17, 02:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Husk and Beans. A FAQ of certain era was "Where to start/train a Trade Software Mk3 pilot?" and Empire's Edge was almost always mentioned. Cannot remember whether there are Soya-products.

All the trade scripts (in the Bonuspacks and outside) try to improve the game experience. Here on vanilla discussions it is common to analyze "what is best for Y". The authors of trade scripts did more than that; they benchmarked their designs. A by-product of those tests was a quantitative observation that in the Paranid space there are very good profitsss. Husk and Beans.

There are other players, who see profitss in "freaks" slightly differently. They like to harvest Paranid TS ships for their trade fleet. Decent stats, particularly if one does not pay credits for the ships. Accelerated particles and high-energy plasma are renewable energy.

-John- wrote:
I have 4 traders going now and a 5th I bought last night;havent set him up yet but I think I will have him hauling ore out of Ore Belt.
The only bad thing, there are no SPPs close by. Will have to get energy from Power Circle.

Ore Belt, President's End, The Wall, The Hole, and Antigone Memorial all have a chance (according to Roguey's map) to have SPP's in that Argon block. The Wall (East from Argon Prime) has been a reliable source in my game. Well, what has gone poof can pop back at some point. Active trading should help.


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Honved





Joined: 20 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu, 16. Feb 17, 17:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Note that the two SPPs a little past the middle of Ore Belt are frequently destroyed or removed early in the game. By the time you get there, one is usually gone, and sometimes both. Usually, the game engine will replace one or both after a few days/weeks, but it's not a certainty by any means.

The Wall is generally close enough to most of the Energy buyers to make it my primary E-cell source for the early stages of the game. Power Circle is the most prolific source, but further from most of the customers. The Hole has its 2 SPPs (which may or may not exist, as with Ore Belt), but those are pretty far into a rather large sector (finding those distant SPPs without an Advanced Scanner could be VERY frustrating if you have no idea where to look), so travel times are longer, meaning less runs in a given amount of time, and therefore less profit. Antigone Memorial also produces some Energy, but from there you either have to go through The Hole and its tedious transit times, or through Power Circle where you'd probably get energy for about the same price most of the time anyway.

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jlehtone



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PostPosted: Thu, 16. Feb 17, 23:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I completely agree with the analysis.
Honved wrote:
Antigone Memorial also produces some Energy, but from there you either have to go through The Hole and its tedious transit times, or through Power Circle where you'd probably get energy for about the same price most of the time anyway.

The path-finding might have changed since X2, but back in the day (when all sectors were about the same size), the AI route from Argon Prime to Antigone was AP->Wall->Hole->Antigone. You can probably experiment in your personal ship with the "Fly to Sector" auto-pilot command.

The AI selects the route somehow, predictably. Once ships start to use JumpDrive, routing obviously changes for them. However, JD has a price and consumes ECells (fuel cost).

For a MORT (Manually Operated Remote Trader) you can keep sending instructions, but it becomes tedious to give "baby-step" commands.


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jorganos





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PostPosted: Fri, 17. Feb 17, 10:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

If you get your hand on cheap hulls with abysmal speed but good cargo holds, you can use these as relay stops in your CLS2 chain. Dock them somewhere with sufficient docking slots to exchange the cargo (or invest in a transporter device for your traders so you can exchange freight while in space). Or dock them at the production site, order them to buy very cheap (and do nothing else), then harvest them with your CLS2 transporters, so that you will have an energy supply even if prices are up.

The cheapest hulls are of course those of ships that bailed... a pure buyer doesn't need any speed or maneuverability tuning. Whether or how much cargo space tuning really pays I cannot say. Probably depends on your attrition rate due to pirate or other such encounters.


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Honved





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PostPosted: Fri, 17. Feb 17, 16:08    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

My personal thoughts on cargo hold increases depend on the purpose of the ship and how much cargo space it already has. The first cargo hold increase is cheap, really cheap. Once you've upgraded it over half way, the price starts to get pretty steep.

On a bulk freighter, 100-200 extra cargo spaces aren't too expensive, and will generally pay themselves off in just a few runs, but when you get to the 500th space or more, it starts to look more affordable to just buy another freighter and get a couple thousand spaces. Granted, the amount of shields, software, and other upgrades that you choose to add to that additional ship can make it less profitable, or more. The trick is in being able to guesstimate the balance point between more cargo space per ship versus more ships. Once you start assigning autonomous traders (UTs, CAGs), they'll start adding cargo space on their own, whether it's profitable or not.

On a combat ship. particularly the one the player character will fly, you can usually justify the additional slots regardless of cost, because picking up a few dropped missiles, weapons, or other goodies after a fight can often pay for those extra slots with just one use.

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-John-





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PostPosted: Sun, 19. Feb 17, 15:16    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Heya guys, I havent gone away,having to work an family doings.
Im up to 9 traders,but also have an extra Mercury that I fly to help make credits. I found Teladianium factories where I have been using my own ship to make some pretty decent credits. Im up to 2.9 mill credits and will be purchasing more traders.
Got attacked by a pirate and lost my cargo,lol.
Flew my Discoverer around looking for missions,mainly Taxi missions;but also seen missions for retreiving cargo. I didnt take them because of limited cargo space and was afraid if I used one of the Mercuries,I wouldnt have the speed. So I am just back to hauling(with my personal ship) ore to help my little team out.
Cheers,
John

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Snafu_X3





Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun, 19. Feb 17, 18:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

John, have you checked out the wiki pages on generic missions? (link in sig below)


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Wiki X:R 1st Tit capping

Wiki X3:TC vanilla: Guide to generic missions, Guide to finding & capping Aran

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-John-





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PostPosted: Sun, 19. Feb 17, 19:30    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Heya Snafu_X3,thanks for that link man. Havent read it yet, but will. Busy running ore atm;plus,gotta run mow a yard in a bit,lol.
Thank you for your help,
John

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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Sun, 19. Feb 17, 20:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

-John- wrote:
Heya Snafu_X3,thanks for that link man. Havent read it yet, but will. Busy running ore atm;plus,gotta run mow a yard in a bit,lol.
Thank you for your help,
John


Oddly enough, a significant portion of my CLS networking system was figured out while mowing the lawn.


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Snafu_X3





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PostPosted: Mon, 20. Feb 17, 01:08    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hehe! Makes a certain amount of sense.. Smile


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Wiki X3:TC vanilla: Guide to generic missions, Guide to finding & capping Aran

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-John-





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PostPosted: Tue, 21. Feb 17, 19:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I have 10 cls traders around Argon Prime area now and have 2 up north around Queens Space (just starting out).
I do have many of the stations and their needs covered (still need more and a few more traders; Im getting close tho.(Argon Prime area)
Ok, as I move more North, Ive noticed in CEO Buckzoid a pirate prescence.
How do you cope/defend your little Mercury Traders from them without shooting them or is it possible? Once you get into areas like this, do I need to think of better trade ships with better shielding??
I have 5 mill credits now.
Thanks,
John

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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Tue, 21. Feb 17, 20:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

CLS pilots of advanced rank will receive reports of "enemy activity en route" and will generally just not go. Very rarely they will pop through a gate and bump into some freshly spawned pirates, but once they get to decent rank they very seldom get in any trouble. When you get to where you have hundreds of them flitting about you'll have some attrition, but the loss rate is very small.

That said, early on when you don't have all that many losing one can feel pretty catastrophic, and Murphy's Law is what it is. I find that the most important defensive equipment is full shielding, a jumpdrive, and some e-cells that the CLS pilot will never sell off. When you hear "warning, one of your ships is under attack, sector xxx" you need to be able to very quickly get the sector map open, your ship selected, and a jump order given.

It doesn't really matter much where they jump to. Even though a high traffic area that delays their jump is not preferred, if picking and choosing slows you down getting the order issued it's probably best to just bang it out. The only really effective escape for a freighter is to have enough shielding to live long enough to jump away.

The other potential approach is to send them out with nothing but a 1MJ shield and write them off if they get attacked. If they are hauling cheap cargo anyway shielding and such increases the loss dramatically if it doesn't save them, so early on there's some logic to just minimizing the loss and moving on rather than investing in halfway measures.

Fighter drones can give the freighter more time to jump, and for minor pirates they can even kill off the attackers. Fight command on the freighter and it will launch them at the same time you are being informed, which eases the pressure on you. Unfortunately, fight command on the ship also enables the pilot setting off on their own little odyssey to acquire the drones. I've lost far more ships when they abandoned their carefully constructed route and flew into danger looking for drones than drones have ever saved for me, so I adamantly refuse to load fight command software, but your mileage may vary.


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On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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