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mergoth





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PostPosted: Wed, 18. Jan 17, 23:51    Post subject: Trade profits?? Reply with quote Print

Do I have to constantly unlock trade discounts through station scanning and small talk ( which I think is HORRIBLE btw) to make trade profitable?? Because all the the sell offers are always expensive while buy offers are so cheap... I cant make money
TY

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Sparky Sparkycorp
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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 01:38    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Trade Agents unlock permanent trade info for the station they are based on. Small Talk is the main way to gain them, although they are also occasionally a mission reward.

Trade profits can be increased two ways: Though gaining discounts on purchase price and gaining commissions on sale prices. Substantial discounts are available through increased standing with the purchaser's faction. There are other ways too.

You can find lots of info about trading at the following wiki page (plus it's child pages) - such as for example on discounts and the advantages of Trade Agents and of having a Trade Computer:

https://www.egosoft.com:8444/confluence/display/XRWIKI/Trading+and+mining


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 04:10    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Fear not, the unlocked temporary discounts are totally optional for making profits - in fact, in my last few games, I have not used them at all - not once, even early in the game. However, the reputation-based permanent discounts (mentioned above by Sparky) are a different story - you also don't need these, but they do help, and since it's advantageous to have good standing with various factions in any case (especially jurisdiction-holders, in order to qualify for restricted-wares carry licenses), you may as well Smile

Profitable trading in Rebirth is a numbers game - you need to have as much trade info as possible, and to this end, you ought to set up trade agents on all stations, so that you may have up to date info on all available offers. If you're not already doing this, get in the habit of consulting the deal-finder computer - it takes the tedium out of trading, identifying profit opportunities for you, also eliminating the possibility of simply overlooking/missing a particular opportunity.

Note that profit opportunities will wax and wane, and the economy as a whole seems prone to cycles - at times there will be lots of profitable trades available, but once you've satisfied that demand, margins are likely to narrow for a while. Don't worry, things always pick up again after a while. And especially if you keep NPC factories supplied and humming along nicely, it's only a matter of time before they deplete their resources and fill up on products, providing you with multiple possible profit vectors.

Good fortune to you! Smile


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mergoth





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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 04:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Deal-finder computer? You mean shift+T where all offers are listed??
I finally set up my URV forge( the one from the plot) but the assigned traders never sell my products nor npc traders come to buy them Sad

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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 10:07    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

mergoth wrote:
Deal-finder computer? You mean shift+T where all offers are listed??

The Trade Deals menu, which was a new addition in 4.00 (Shift + Y by default).

mergoth wrote:

I finally set up my URV forge( the one from the plot) but the assigned traders never sell my products nor npc traders come to buy them Sad

Ships assigned to work for stations can only travel a maximum range of system-wide. Although the shipyard in Darned Hot Air will need drones occasionally, you'll need to tell trade ship to sell drones in Albion if you would like to clear your stock.

This is probably a bit unexpected given the plot request for drones. It's partly a side effect of the DHA shipyard producing NPC ships infrequently, which gives the player a higher chance of being able to order new ships without needing to supply all the wares each time.


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 10:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The Integrated URV Forge's produced drones will sell to the shipyard no problem [CAVEAT: as long as ship production is ongoing - to this end, if you buy ships there from time to time, you may well help to stimulate the demand, as well as supplying the shipyard such that when you order ships there, you can have them built with drones instead of having to make special arrangements], but don't expect to sell any Refined Metals or Silicon Wafers from it locally - unfortunately, those goods have no NPC clients in DeVries, and I believe those modules' inclusion in that station is more for your internal benefit - once you start manufacturing Reinforced Metal Plating, you will need the Refined Metals as an intermediate material. The Silicon Wafers you will need if/when you start manufacturing microchips and some other high-tech goods. I would advise against developing those two aspects any farther (the Steel Refinery and the Wafer Plant, I think they're called) and to rather focus on the URV Wharves - those are where you'll make your money off that station. Incidentally, exporting the refined metals and silicon wafers inter-system is barely worth the effort - the amounts you earn will not feel satisfactory.

EDIT: Additional note: if you have played the previous X titles extensively, you may be aware that in them trading is much more profitable than manufacturing. This is no longer the case in Rebirth, the two are now much more balanced, and owning stations is probably slightly (or even substantially, in the long term) more profitable than trading, while also being a whole lot less work than trading (which can't be automated the way it used to be in X2 and X3s.) (I added this in case it's of relevance - if it isn't, just ignore my pointless ramblings Razz )


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GCU Grey Area



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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 13:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Recommend periodically checking the bulletin board. There are often highly lucrative trade missions available. Rewards for these range from a few 100k up to a couple of million, so even if the trade itself is only marginally profitable (or even a loss) you can still make a ton of money from it.

Best trade missions to go for are basic commodities: food, energy cells (also ion cells etc), space fuel, medical supplies, etc (note: last 2 require an appropriate license). Best to avoid missions involving high tech wares (scanning arrays, fusion reactors, drones, etc) unless you are absolutely sure there's already a supplier with stock available - don't want your ships hanging around waiting for a fresh batch to be produced when they could be doing a trade run with more readily available wares.

As an example of how profitable this can be, during my current game (a new plot game started to test the new beta patch) I decided to pause the plot & do a spot of mission trading before opening up the jump gate to DV. 24 hours later (after around 250 trade missions & the odd taxi job) I was up around 150 million & had built up a small trading fleet of 6 ships: 3 Rahanas (freebie C+E, Energy & Liquid), Sanahar, Fedhelm & Sequana.

Most profitable of those were probably the Container & Energy transports, the mining ships did OK (both for mining jobs & as Bulk transports), though probably made a loss overall on the Liquid Rahanas & would not recommend acquiring one for this type of gameplay. Managed to find the occasional gas mining mission but they tend to be quite sparse & there's just not a lot of money to be made trading Liquid wares without a mission reward to boost it. Doubt I even made enough to cover the purchase cost of the ship & it's drones.

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mergoth





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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 13:57    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:
mergoth wrote:
Deal-finder computer? You mean shift+T where all offers are listed??

The Trade Deals menu, which was a new addition in 4.00 (Shift + Y by default).

mergoth wrote:

I finally set up my URV forge( the one from the plot) but the assigned traders never sell my products nor npc traders come to buy them Sad

Ships assigned to work for stations can only travel a maximum range of system-wide. Although the shipyard in Darned Hot Air will need drones occasionally, you'll need to tell trade ship to sell drones in Albion if you would like to clear your stock.

This is probably a bit unexpected given the plot request for drones. It's partly a side effect of the DHA shipyard producing NPC ships infrequently, which gives the player a higher chance of being able to order new ships without needing to supply all the wares each time.


I have a mod that increases the trade range of stations to galaxy. But my URV forge isnt selling the drones automatically still... ANd the devries shipyard is in DIRE need of them.. I guess I need to do it manually or maybe the problem is the trading ships of the station are busy? I have 2 of them and they are currently in albion buying resources for the stations I think

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 14:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

mergoth wrote:
...maybe the problem is the trading ships of the station are busy? I have 2 of them and they are currently in albion buying resources for the stations I think

That is indeed your problem - and the station managers are extra aggressive with buying, less so with selling, so buy tasks will always be a higher priority. You may want to try a couple of container Mercancias (those are the M-sized Canteran freighters), the Container model. These will help both with getting in food for your station, and with exporting the stuff to the shipyard. I highly recommend not sticking solely to capital-sized freighters, but to mix in some M-size ones, especially in the early game - you'll be amazed how much they smooth out things. M-size miners can also be useful, when the resrouces are locally available - not the case with that forge, it has to mine from another sector, which M-size miners are bad for.)

EDIT: Incidentally, your galaxy-wide trade range in this case works against you, especially with so few freighters - it slows down your station's operation. Also, regarding the M-size freighters: the expanded trade range will also work against that, as those you particularly don't want wandering out of the SECTOR, never mind out of the entire system - unfortunately, a station manager's trade-range setting can't affect that station's freighters selectively (unless the mod you are running offers a way around that.)


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mergoth





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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 14:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
mergoth wrote:
...maybe the problem is the trading ships of the station are busy? I have 2 of them and they are currently in albion buying resources for the stations I think

That is indeed your problem - and the station managers are extra aggressive with buying, less so with selling, so buy tasks will always be a higher priority. You may want to try a couple of container Mercancias (those are the M-sized Canteran freighters), the Container model. These will help both with getting in food for your station, and with exporting the stuff to the shipyard. I highly recommend not sticking solely to capital-sized freighters, but to mix in some M-size ones, especially in the early game - you'll be amazed how much they smooth out things. M-size miners can also be useful, when the resrouces are locally available - not the case with that forge, it has to mine from another sector, which M-size miners are bad for.)

EDIT: Incidentally, your galaxy-wide trade range in this case works against you, especially with so few freighters - it slows down your station's operation. Also, regarding the M-size freighters: the expanded trade range will also work against that, as those you particularly don't want wandering out of the SECTOR, never mind out of the entire system - unfortunately, a station manager's trade-range setting can't affect that station's freighters selectively (unless the mod you are running offers a way around that.)


Yeah... the mercancias are going all the way to albion and Omycron to get stuff which is veeery slowly.. But I find the system-range to be too limited... there is not enough things in devries for my station Oops

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 14:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

mergoth wrote:
But I find the system-range to be too limited... there is not enough things in devries for my station Oops


Well, that's part of the challenge - providing those items, either by "manually" importing large shipments, or by setting up stations locally to provide those goods (for me, it's very satisfying to set up local production of everything except energy and food, initially, and then even adding my own food production once the local RoC and HoA supplies can no longer cope.) But, as they say, different strokes for different folks... Smile


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Sparky Sparkycorp
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PostPosted: Thu, 19. Jan 17, 15:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I've replied to the modding aspect of this discussion over on the modding forum here. Let's try and keep this thread more vanilla-focused please Smile


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