Trump

[mrbadger]

He isn't actually president yet, he's in that odd limbo where he can say anything he likes without being held to it.

If he succeeds in getting those jobs back from China he will bring low quality assembly line work that will just be replaced by automation.

And push up prices quite a bit. Not such a good thing is a consumer driven economy.

But he doesn't have to actually follow through on any of this.

[Chips]

I do think his actions or more akin to the Nazi empire of Adolf Hitler. A lot of the things he has done and is doing mirror exactly how Hitler handled his rise to power.

I do think you're going to have to provide evidence on this statement. Having watched "The World at War" and read a few things, I've yet to see any evidence of a similarity, let alone, "mirror exactly..." Trump, Hitler and their rise to power.

I don't like Trump, but it is demonstrably false statements like that which make people slowly transition to tolerating, and maybe voting for him.

You do not need to make things up regarding Trump, there's plenty of ammo he provides. As soon as you do start making stuff up, you weaken the truthful statement's impact about him - as you create scepticism about statements on him due to the use of blatantly obviously false ones.

[mrbadger]

I do think his actions or more akin to the Nazi empire of Adolf Hitler. A lot of the things he has done and is doing mirror exactly how Hitler handled his rise to power.

I do think you're going to have to provide evidence on this statement. Having watched "The World at War" and read a few things, I've yet to see any evidence of a similarity, let alone, "mirror exactly..." Trump, Hitler and their rise to power.

I don't like Trump, but it is demonstrably false statements like that which make people slowly transition to tolerating, and maybe voting for him.

You do not need to make things up regarding Trump, there's plenty of ammo he provides. As soon as you do start making stuff up, you weaken the truthful statement's impact about him - as you create scepticism about statements on him due to the use of blatantly obviously false ones.

There are some slight similarities, but Hitler was so extreme you could look for elements of his initial rule in many current world leaders and find them in milder form.

I'm sorry but I'm going to kick out all muslims and build a wall is a significant order of magnitudes less than I'm going to murder all the people I'm scapegoating by the millions.

They just don't compare. He is far closer to loudmothed incompetent than murderous evil dictator.

[Mightysword]

I do think you're going to have to provide evidence on this statement. Having watched "The World at War" and read a few things, I've yet to see any evidence of a similarity, let alone, "mirror exactly..." Trump, Hitler and their rise to power.

I don't like Trump, but it is demonstrably false statements like that which make people slowly transition to tolerating, and maybe voting for him.

You do not need to make things up regarding Trump, there's plenty of ammo he provides. As soon as you do start making stuff up, you weaken the truthful statement's impact about him - as you create scepticism about statements on him due to the use of blatantly obviously false ones.

Very well said. I think this is the main and biggest issue of the matter. People simply want to believe what fit their narrative, rather seeking to inform or being informed. Basically, just state whatever fitting the current trendy memes and for the most part, if it's what people wants to hear they will agree with you regardless of substance. While there are always some hardcore supporters and protestors on both sides in any arguments, there are also a large chunk of neutral as well. And while some may be easily suave by whatever side yelling the loudest, those with actual critical thinking and skepticism may actually become more sympathetic to Trump when they have to swallow a daily dose of unsubstantial "truth". For example, the current narrative in the media makes me angry isn't because they attack Trump, but because I feel they're insulting my intelligence if I am to believe what they're trying to say.


I think it's one of the reason why the Dem and media lost this election, after all you don't really need to convince the people who already agree with you, it's those who don't that need convincing. And the zealotry clearly didn't help advancing their cause.

[mrbadger]

But did he actually lie? I mean, he talked some crap, yes, I don't recall anyone catching him outright lying.

It's not even wrong to lie in US politics any more it seems, it's just wrong to get caught or to lie about the wrong things.

In fact it would be more harmful to be totally honest, like for instance to admit that they aren't actually as bone deep religious as they all pretend to be, or have since Carter.

[kurush]

You do know many of those people need to be approved by Congress , right?

Considering that Republicans now have both house and senate, how that would be a problem? Unless something extreme happens, to the order of magnitude when David Duke gets DoD position, they will be approved. Hell, republicans are now just 1 state away in state legislatures from being able to amend the constitution. They need to sway just one state midterm and we may end up with nationwide ID law or something equally nice.

[mrbadger]

You do know many of those people need to be approved by Congress , right?

Considering that Republicans now have both house and senate, how that would be a problem? Unless something extreme happens, to the order of magnitude when David Duke gets DoD position, they will be approved. Hell, republicans are now just 1 state away in state legislatures from being able to amend the constitution. They need to sway just one state midterm and we may end up with nationwide ID law or something equally nice.

They are?

Wow, so much for Democrats confidence then. I still think Trump has caused them serious issues that will take a long time to resolve, but with a majority that extreme it seems to indicate more of the country is Republican than the press like to admit.

[birdtable]

You only develop a social conscience (Democrat) when you are financially comfortable and can afford to pay lip service to the plights of the disenfranchised.

[Mightysword]

Wow, so much for Democrats confidence then. I still think Trump has caused them serious issues that will take a long time to resolve, but with a majority that extreme it seems to indicate more of the country is Republican than the press like to admit.

First, they should have see this coming, they had 6 years to do so.
Second, if anything Trump isn't the one who inflicts the wounds, it's more like his win is a finishing punch.

I don't know why they act like they are shocked, their defeat didn't come overnight.

- 2008: Obama won a large victory, winning convincingly both in electoral and populous vote in the largest turn out general election ever. The democrat also had control of both chamber (much like the Republican now).

- 2010 - 2014: Democrat lost the house, and see their majority in the Senate became thinner.

- 2016: Democrat lost Whitehouse, the Senate, and fail to retake the House. This also mean at least another conservative judge will be appointed to the Supreme Court.

So it's almost a knockout punch, but by no mean it's one that was decided in one round. If this doesn't give the Democrat and liberal wings of the media some hint that the populate are generally rejecting their agenda, I don't know what else will. Although I doubt it will be easy, like I said for several years they have been the most vocal group that dominate all circles. Maybe it got to a point where they actually truly believe they are the only group in existence and everyone else agree with them.

[kurush]

Wow, so much for Democrats confidence then. I still think Trump has caused them serious issues that will take a long time to resolve, but with a majority that extreme it seems to indicate more of the country is Republican than the press like to admit.

DemocRAT media created an alterntative reality before the election and that reality got shattered on the election day. The pieces falling down are a beeuty to behold. The frightened "OMG, Hitler" screams are a part of it. That would be a Hitler pusing for term limits in the legistative branch of the government, a bit out of character
In reality instead of epic win they got even more epic loss that fell just a bit short of the consitutional majority on all levels. Who knows, may be we can even get term limits this way. I bet there are some decent democrats to vote for it.

[kurush]

So it's almost a knockout punch, but by no mean it's one that was decided in one round. If this doesn't give the Democrat and liberal wings of the media some hint that the populate are generally rejecting their agenda, I don't know what else will. Although I doubt it will be easy, like I said for several years they have been the most vocal group that dominate all circles. Maybe it got to a point where they actually truly believe they are the only group in existence and everyone else agree with them.

It would be more accurately to say that they bullied everybody to pretend they agree with the progressive agenda. Now the right came back, also armed with Alinsky tactic among other things. I sincerely hope Dems don't wisen up for a few years and just keep crying "Rasist,sexist,misogynist" at the top of their lungs as their platform. Keeping the same minority leader in Senate certainly seems like a step in the right direction. If it all goes well, their only hope would be Donald screwing up massively and they certainly believe he will because of their own propaganda. Thanks to that self-indocrination they may decide to just stay the course.

[Bishop149]

If you didn't know, he has now pissed off the Chinese even more than he had already by directly talking to the Taiwanese government.

Trump is unpredictable so he may either try to pacify the Chinese, or maybe he feels like messing with them because so far his gambles have paid off. Or maybe it's all for show because he will make money with Chinese properties later on. Or maybe he doesn't know what he's doing and he's way in over his head, just like his stupid wife.

Well, it appears hes intent on stomping around like a spoiled child whilst kicking at that particular hornets nest. I don't think he has the slightest idea the gravity of the situation with which he's messing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-38167022

Someone seriously needs to take his twitter account away from him again, the President simply just can not go around making these kind of unilateral statements in a public forum. If I was the US ambassador to China I would be LIVID.
From now on ANYTHING he says will have consequences, the time for vote winning rhetoric is over, you won the election start acting like it!

[matthewfarmery]

I think we are starting to see the real Trump, it's interesting, but I also read that he has gone bankrupt a few times as well, and was forced to sell some stuff off. In fact, its difficult to say if he is a billionaire. But the way he is acting, is just showing himself up major. To me, he is no business man, or has any clear understanding of how things work. I suspect he has had a lot of people below him doing the real work, while he remains at the top reaping the rewards.

I think this issue with China is a dangerous game, and one he is clearly not skilled in playing. It's also possible he could even trigger a war if he isn't careful, I don't think china is going to put up with his nonsense much longer me thinks.

I sense dark days ahead, and may only get darker once he is in office.

[mrbadger]

To me, he is no business man, or has any clear understanding of how things work. I suspect he has had a lot of people below him doing the real work, while he remains at the top reaping the rewards.

Actually the definition of a good manager is one who can look like he's doing nothing all the time because his subordinates know their jobs.

I think this issue with China is a dangerous game, and one he is clearly not skilled in playing. It's also possible he could even trigger a war if he isn't careful, I don't think china is going to put up with his nonsense much longer me thinks.

China is an ancient country that has coped with a lot worse than being bad mouthed on twitter.

Trump seems to be all about getting the US the upper hand in foreign dealings. His methods are a little odd, I'm not quite sure how this is supposed to help, but the US has in the past mollified China by not considering Taiwan a legal entity.

That isn't good, especially given how much trade the US does with Taiwan.

I imagine he wants no truck with it.

Actual negotiations take a long time and involve highly trained diplomats. China will get openly irritated, but that's all.

We had the Duke of Edinborough call them 'slitty eyed buggers' and that got smoothed over.

[fiksal]

Wow, so much for Democrats confidence then. I still think Trump has caused them serious issues that will take a long time to resolve, but with a majority that extreme it seems to indicate more of the country is Republican than the press like to admit.

DemocRAT media created an alterntative reality before the election and that reality got shattered on the election day. The pieces falling down are a beeuty to behold. The frightened "OMG, Hitler" screams are a part of it. That would be a Hitler pusing for term limits in the legistative branch of the government, a bit out of character

I think Hitler would approve of Muslim registry, maybe some light camps. After all, there's a precedent, as your people say


What's an eta on those? Is it still a time to better arm yourself?

[mrbadger]

Hitler actually copied the UK, we invented the concentration camp in India, and some lovely mass murder by machine gun methods for crowd control.

Plus the US has also already toyed with the camp thing, interring (nice word for imprisoning without cause and hugely mis-treating), Japanese americans in WW2.

Go read George Takais autobiography, that has nice detail on it.

[fiksal]

Hitler actually copied the UK, we invented the concentration camp in India, and some lovely mass murder by machine gun methods for crowd control.

That I didnt know.

What happened then?

Plus the US has also already toyed with the camp thing, interring (nice word for imprisoning without cause and hugely mis-treating), Japanese americans in WW2.

Go read George Takais autobiography, that has nice detail on it.

Oh yeah Takei is quite outspoken about it, I have him on my facebook feed. I knew about it before, just didnt know the scale of it.

What I was referring to that some clown from Trump's circles went on TV (Fox news?) repeating that there was a "precedent" for the camps in US's history. If he thinks such examples should be followed, perhaps he can try them first hand first? I'd not be opposed to that.

[Mightysword]

China is an ancient country that has coped with a lot worse than being bad mouthed on twitter.

Trump seems to be all about getting the US the upper hand in foreign dealings. His methods are a little odd, I'm not quite sure how this is supposed to help, but the US has in the past mollified China by not considering Taiwan a legal entity.

I will not comment on Trump's approach and whether it will be a success or disaster because ... frankly, I don't know, and I doubt anyone know. So far every conventional wisdom about Trump had proven to be fail, and he has always get the last laugh at the people who were laughing at him.

One thing though, it certainly is different than the current approach by Obama, which some believe have been making the US a weaker negotiator. Sometime it feels like the US doesn't have a "Trump's card" (no pun intended) and have to rely on others too much, the narrative is usually like this:

- We need to appeal China to push pressure on NK
- We need to appeal Russia on Syria.
- We need to appeal Russian and China for the Iran deal.

This left some people wondering what is our leverage? Is there something that people need to appeal "us" for something? Also to mention our other current major policy doesn't seem to work out:

- Obama's pivot to Asia so far has not yield any substance. China's military influence still expand at a steady pace if not even faster while it help reassured no old allies and getting no new one (Something Trump mentioned in today Tweet)
- Obama's famous "red line" on the Syrian war.
- The Carbon reduction deal with China makes it feel like the US was getting a very bad deal out of it.
- And there is NATO. It seems people like to ignore the fact what Trump is saying about NATO is NO DIFFERENT then what the previous two administration have been saying, he's just more upfront and politically incorrect in his way of saying it.
- China's currency manipulation? Again, I would like to point out what Trump is saying about it is no different at all than both what both the expert and government have been saying for almost a decade, so ... why is it so inappropriate for Trump to say the same thing now?

I have to ask, are people in a certain mindset that "if it's something Trump says, it must be automatically wrong and inappropriate"?



And many more. Obama by all mean, can be seen as a well meaning President, but in his desire to do good sometime he exposed to US to be exploited and taken advantage off. Some believe he's weak and feeble and they are probably wrong, but it's hard to argue with them with the current result. It will be interesting to see how Trump gonna do it, at the least I think the people voted for him is thinking "well at least, this guy gonna try something new because the current way is not obviously working". Personally, I view Obama is someone like a Priest who trying to cut deal with some season merchants and too innocent for the job. Most of the countries who acting as a counterweight to the US are hardly playing fair, so maybe it's not a bad idea to put a snake up as the chief negotiator.

[kurush]

I think Hitler would approve of Muslim registry, maybe some light camps. After all, there's a precedent, as your people say

You have to be naive to think that government doesn't have enough information on their books on where muslims are, especially the ones that hang around radical clerics. The registry is just a talking point, to counter the "let's frisk that grandma from Ohio so that they don't call us islamophobic" mentality. You can build a decent risk profile based on religion, mosque of choice, countries visited, web browsing history. I have no doubt they already know and use all of that. To get to the camps situation you need a bigger war than what we are likely to get ourselves into even after all the sutpidity of the foreign policy of the last 20 years, so I think the risk is low. But if you import, say, 5-7% of the population from the jihadi countries, let them self-segregate in some sharia villages and then start a rebellion, you might be actually forced into that kind of situation. If anything, Donald is about to save us from this outcome.

[fiksal]

I think Hitler would approve of Muslim registry, maybe some light camps. After all, there's a precedent, as your people say

You have to be naive to think that government doesn't have enough information on their books on where muslims are, especially the ones that hang around radical clerics.

Having that info is one thing, processing is another. And I doubt the "having" part even.

INS might have that info... though I dont remember "religion" being one of their questions on the form. No document I had identified me of any religion either when I immigrated.

So... prove me wrong. I dont know of anything concrete that indicates that such registry exists. Are you more informed? Some people naively think the government is all knowing.

CIA (in cooperation with others) probably tracks people with known criminal ties (since that's their job). But I cant call it a "muslim registry".

The registry is just a talking point

Whatever do you mean by that? It's been said as something they want to do. It's simple as that, no?

Does it mean you dont believe that they will do it, but support them anyway, regardless of what they say?
Or support them because you dont care?
Or support them because they might do it, and it's a good thing?
(... I realize I might have repeated the same thing)

If anything, Donald is about to save us from this outcome.

Ha. His "saving" is not for me, so no thank you. I enjoy more modern and free society.