Mining help?

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StevesX2
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Mining help?

Post by StevesX2 » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 01:12

Hello everyone.

I'm trying to get into mining but it seems odd compared to say mining in Elite. is there a way to mine manually? because all I can seem to read online is that you need to buy a 2nd ship to use to collect the ore?

I want to mine by myself and collect it myself like back in X2

can I do this?
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Re: Mining help?

Post by Ravenhurst » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 01:36

StevesX2 wrote:Hello everyone.

I'm trying to get into mining but it seems odd compared to say mining in Elite. is there a way to mine manually? because all I can seem to read online is that you need to buy a 2nd ship to use to collect the ore?

I want to mine by myself and collect it myself like back in X2

can I do this?
You need freighters and/or mining ships and mining drones that actually collect your stuff. Have one or more freighters in your squad equipped with mining drones and they'll pick up and store whatever you mine. Drones for freighters can be bought at shipyards, call them up remotely and/or transfer drones to freighters/mining ships manually. Elite is not worth mentioning because it has the complexity of Candy Crush, don't expect the simplicity of a casual mobile app in an X game.

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Post by GCU Grey Area » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 01:41

You can do mining with just the Skunk. It's just that you can't collect industrial quantities of ore, silicon, etc to sell to stations. You do need a bigger ship with mining drones for that.

Still however can be well worth mining even without a specialised mining ship since some asteroids also contain other stuff (e.g. silicate minerals, gemstones, unidentified artifacts, etc) which can be obtained simply by splitting asteroids with Skunk's mining laser. These can then be collected by the Skunk (no drones or mining ship needed) & sold to traders (Mining Suppliers) on stations. Some of these items are quite valuable and/or used in crafting.

Best though to do both - get a mining ship to do the heavy work of splitting rocks & sending out drones to collect ore etc, while you sift through the debris for the rare valuable stuff.

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Nikola515
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Post by Nikola515 » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 03:07

In sector mining is extremely inefficient. It is easier to tell ship where to mine and leave zone (ooz mining is much faster). XR is not like other X games so you cant use player ship to mine or trade with stations anymore. For station trading you need sips with corect cargo and AI will do all the work (AI is not that good by the way).
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 04:11

I find that, in the early game, the first mining op is actually quite fun - use a bulk-class freighter with SMURVs, and as Grey Area suggested break up the stuff manually, collecting the special goodies when they pop out. If you want a quick tip,
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while in the mineral scanning mode, when you crack a 'roid with high yield, the bulk of its value will almost always be concentrated in one smaller rock, the rest will contain traces. When you then reduce that rock, the same thing will happen, so the trick is to just look for the high yield chunk every time. Using this approach, you can often fill up a freighter's hold with just 2 or 3 asteroids (sometimes even with a single one.)
That's always been the thing with the X games for me: the first time you do just about anything, you are doing it yourself. Soon enough, you are delegating to underlings, and then subsequently growing the number of underlings while automating the process.

Anyhow, back on topic: also don't underestimate the value of the M-sized miners (especially now that in 4.0 those ships have had a speed buff and have learned evasive boosting.) Particularly if you are mining for a station that you own, and the resource is in the same zone, it is for starters cheaper to initially outfit 1 or 2 of these, and you can grow your operation incrementally, smoothly. You usually won't need more than 1 or 2 per refining module (steel refinery or wafer plant; I'm not sure about crystal and nividium, as I've never set up in the zone that has those, as yet.) Additionally, your first module will get up and running considerably quicker, as the smaller cargo holds mean shorter forays out. Large-hold capital miners, on the other hand, are better for long-haul mining, where long trips to and fro make it worth getting a whole bunch on every trip.
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Post by GCU Grey Area » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 11:27

Nikola515 wrote:In sector mining is extremely inefficient.
Disagree, not in my experience - did a game a while back (when TO was released) which was focused almost entirely on IZ mining at the start (no missions, no boarding, no trading anything that wasn't mined, etc).

Raised my first 100 million or so in that game from IZ mining, primarily ore & silicon. Would certainly not characterise it as "extremely inefficient". I was getting better results staying IZ, where I could choose which asteroids were mined rather than leaving them on their own. Also there's no opportunity for ancillary mineral collection by the Skunk if you don't stay IZ.

Ended up with a mining fleet of 4 Vultures with 30 mk1 mining drones each (also 20 cargo & 5 constructors). That setup was sufficiently effective that they could easily fulfill the demand for ore & silicon that wasn't being catered for by NPC miners in each system - was constantly on the move, when demand dried up in one system I'd move the fleet on to the next.

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 15:19

GCU Grey Area wrote:I was getting better results staying IZ, where I could choose which asteroids were mined rather than leaving them on their own.
Indeed - I bet you were soon filling up a hold in no time, with just 1 or 2 asteroids, and probably spent more time sending your miners back and forth (though I assume you were picking through gold nuggets and unidentified artifacts while you waited :D )

However, if you don't involve yourself in the mining process personally, then IZ can be slower, depending on the placement and availability of the actual rocks (most notably, crystal and nividium in some places.)
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Post by Nikola515 » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 20:05

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Nikola515 wrote:In sector mining is extremely inefficient.
Disagree, not in my experience - did a game a while back (when TO was released) which was focused almost entirely on IZ mining at the start (no missions, no boarding, no trading anything that wasn't mined, etc).

Raised my first 100 million or so in that game from IZ mining, primarily ore & silicon. Would certainly not characterise it as "extremely inefficient". I was getting better results staying IZ, where I could choose which asteroids were mined rather than leaving them on their own. Also there's no opportunity for ancillary mineral collection by the Skunk if you don't stay IZ.

Ended up with a mining fleet of 4 Vultures with 30 mk1 mining drones each (also 20 cargo & 5 constructors). That setup was sufficiently effective that they could easily fulfill the demand for ore & silicon that wasn't being catered for by NPC miners in each system - was constantly on the move, when demand dried up in one system I'd move the fleet on to the next.
In my case AI in doing horrible job getting to me especially if it needs to go around and stations.... Also it mines much faster ooz (in my experience). In areas where materials like Crystals in DV are hard to find because they look like ore it is time consuming and it takes forever. OOZ just tell ship to do it in minutes it will be full. It took me 20 minutes to find single crystal rock in DV because they are rare. For materials like Ore or Silicon it is not problem but for other it is (depends where you mine).

Edit: All though im not going to lie it is fun to do it when ship get there but there is difference in efficiency (getting same results in shorter amount of time ) and enjoying something to do ;)
It's not world hunger because we can't feed poor,it's because there will never be enough to feed the rich .....

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Post by GCU Grey Area » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 21:25

Nikola515 wrote:In my case AI in doing horrible job getting to me especially if it needs to go around and stations.... Also it mines much faster ooz (in my experience). In areas where materials like Crystals in DV are hard to find because they look like ore it is time consuming and it takes forever. OOZ just tell ship to do it in minutes it will be full. It took me 20 minutes to find single crystal rock in DV because they are rare. For materials like Ore or Silicon it is not problem but for other it is (depends where you mine).

Edit: All though im not going to lie it is fun to do it when ship get there but there is difference in efficiency (getting same results in shorter amount of time ) and enjoying something to do ;)
Never bothered much with crystals in my mining game. Just wasn't enough demand to make it worthwhile - NPC miners seemed to have that market pretty much sewn up, at least in that particular game. Stuck primarily to ore & silicon. Tons of demand, moderately valuable (around 400k per Vulture load IIRC) & very easy to obtain. For those materials IZ mining is definitely superior - ships can fill much faster if you're there to locate high yield rocks for them to work.

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Post by Nikola515 » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 23:55

That is true in some zones.... For example 42 (now) have lots of ore/silicon ooz.... But all asteroids are scattered all over zones making it harder to find. But in Darn Hot Air it is much easier becuse they are all over place. In zone mining have it's advantages and disadvantages. Also in my playstyle is different.... When you build large empire it is ineffective to do mining especially when there is so many things to do. At beginning it is fun but when you get to certain point in game its just ineffective. I have fleet of 10 Fedhelms (liberated from PMC) and with multiple order i tell them to go mine what they need. OOZ mining fills it up in minutes and i can sell it and fill any station i want while doing something else. Like boarding ships or building stations....
It's not world hunger because we can't feed poor,it's because there will never be enough to feed the rich .....

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Post by GCU Grey Area » Sun, 13. Mar 16, 01:28

Nikola515 wrote:That is true in some zones.... For example 42 (now) have lots of ore/silicon ooz.... But all asteroids are scattered all over zones making it harder to find. But in Darn Hot Air it is much easier becuse they are all over place.
Never did any mining in DV, lack of customers for anything except ice always put me off & delivery times are always much slower if any gate travel is needed. Did most of my mining in Albion & OL, with occasional trips into the Teladi sectors for nividium mining.
I have fleet of 10 Fedhelms (liberated from PMC) and with multiple order i tell them to go mine what they need. OOZ mining fills it up in minutes and i can sell it and fill any station i want while doing something else. Like boarding ships or building stations....
That rather neatly highlights the difference between unattended OOZ mining & IZ mining with player assistance. Didn't need anywhere near 10 ships for IZ mining, could easily flood the market for ore & silicon with just 4 - selecting the best rocks makes a hell of a difference. Simply had no need to add a 5th ship, though perhaps with the new HOL systems a larger mining fleet might be viable.

Incidentally would agree stealing ships & building stations can be a lot more profitable than mining. However for my mining game I was simply curious to see how far I could get just by mining (i.e. no supplementary sources of income whatsoever) & to experiment with different mining strategies to determine which were most effective - e.g. IZ vs. OOZ, tagging individual rocks vs. just pointing mining ships in the general direction of the good ones, mining in the same zone as customers vs. letting ships boost or jump as needed to get there, etc.

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Post by Nikola515 » Sun, 13. Mar 16, 06:47

Im using DV as example but there is whole bunch of examples all over uneverse. When asteroids are scared it is just not efficient. Ozz mining don't have problem because range is not included. Also there is no need for ship to travel or surch for materials. As i said before is all about playstyle...
I use my mining ship usually if i see empty stations and it needs a lots of ore. For example Cold Star H2O station needs a lots of ice. I can fill it up really fast to keep economy going. Also when i build station i fill it up and assign mining ship so it can keep up with damand. But if i was doing this manually it would take forever especially when i need Crystals or Nevidium.
So like i said before if you just want to mine it is fun. But if you want to do other things it is inefficient. It is easier to tell ship to go mine by it self and sell stuff when it is full. Also there are bugs with drones not returning and you need to go out of sectors just for them to dock.
It's not world hunger because we can't feed poor,it's because there will never be enough to feed the rich .....

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Post by StevesX2 » Mon, 14. Mar 16, 00:23

Thanks for all the info.

don't mind saying it pretty much sucks that I can't collect the ore myself as I found that enjoyable in X2. and as for using another ship to collect it, I only have my ship and 106,000 right now. no other ships. heh
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Post by Lander1979 » Mon, 14. Mar 16, 06:08

I've tried a few games relying solely on mining, and I have found it isn't worth the time as the primary pursuit of income (the profit from mining is made when the ore is turned into something useful and then sold on).

There are much more efficient ways of generating start-up capitol.

My personal favourite method;
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Do a few missions or find a few lock boxes to make a few million and get yourself a container Rahanas, then scan down all the URV manufacturers and S/M and L/XL Shipyards. Then make the easy money selling drones to the shipyards till you can afford a station to kit out. Once you have a few Stations kitted out and making cash it's easy street :wink:
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Post by Nikola515 » Mon, 14. Mar 16, 10:33

Problem with mining is that there is unlimited supply of ore and limited sink. Station are almost full all the time and if you do sell any it is dirt cheap. I don't have much problem with prices as much as not having large market for it. Economy is way too self sufficient when it comes to mining.... Perhaps they should cut number of NPC mining ships to increase damand?
It's not world hunger because we can't feed poor,it's because there will never be enough to feed the rich .....

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Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 14. Mar 16, 10:35

StevesX2 wrote:Thanks for all the info.

don't mind saying it pretty much sucks that I can't collect the ore myself as I found that enjoyable in X2. and as for using another ship to collect it, I only have my ship and 106,000 right now. no other ships. heh
You could still afford a mk1 mining laser (IIRC they're around 20-25k or so) & go mining for gold, gemstones, silicate minerals, etc.

As for mining ore (etc) Skunk's simply far too small for it to be commercially viable, even if it had the capability. Prices for minerals are significantly different compared to the old games & no longer a cash cow. Base prices are 18 for ore & 20 for silicon (instead of the several hundred they were once worth) & they're still just as bulky. It needs a vast ship that dwarfs the old TLs (i.e. XR's L & XL freighters) to be able to carry a worthwhile amount.

Still worth doing though (IMO), found it a very relaxing way to play the game to unwind after a busy day. There's just something about blasting apart rocks, then watching as a horde of drones scurry around hoovering up the debris.

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Post by Warnoise » Fri, 18. Mar 16, 09:35

Allow me to hijack this thread please.

I just built a construction shop, I assigned 2 M Class miners to the manager with the hope they automatically start mining nividium

Well, to my surprise, they went into "searching for trades" mode and forgot about mining.

They are fully equipped. they used to work fine when they are assigned to mine ore for my refined metal factory, but they don't nividium for my construction shop.

Anyone can enlighten me about this?

Thanks

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Post by Lander1979 » Fri, 18. Mar 16, 09:59

The Construction Shop is not like the metal works yard. It won't mine it's own resources straight off the bat, you first have to build the modules that refine the raw materials into the resources that the Default Plate Foundry uses(Steel Refinery and Chemical Refinery Modules).

Also, the Construction Shop is not capable of Refining raw Nividium Ore into Nividium Cubes(This is why your mining ships aren't mining Nividium). To do that you need to build a different station, called a "Crystal Supplier".
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Post by Snafu_X3 » Fri, 18. Mar 16, 15:30

A Construction Shop can't use raw Nvidium; that's needed for your Crystal Cuttery to turn into Nvidium Cubes, which your CS /will/ use
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