Too much wrong with 4.0 and HoL

hisazul · Post by **hisazul** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 04:05

This is disappointing, I feel like we just went back to having Ego do mind boggling changes and not testing them in any way. I thought the lesson was learned?

This >>>PLAYER<<< owned capital ship running away is so ****** in every conceivable way I just cannot in good conscience believe that anyone tested it in any way shape or form. Welcome to the combat... I loses to Arawn........................ Yep................ it may take a lot of running back and forth but your I will lose eventually. Oh you got a fleet of 20 fulmekrons? Well... hope they never come across a xenon weapons platform. Because I just watched 20 fulmekrons die to a pitiful double weapons platform. Run in... get shot, run away, come back, get shot, run away.... till all 20 were ****** dead. Brilliant.

Weapon mods... sounded fun. Until I crafted 100 high grade mods and not a SINGLE GOD DAMN mod was for anything past mk1 slingshots. Really? Not enough rng in current games we need more spitting from the high hill? I'm glad we got 2 new weapons... that overheat in 3-4 shots or 1 shot... maybe they wouldn't be utter garbage with mods but as it stands particle repeater is probably never going to get challenged.

Game has been released in november 2013, assault urvs still do not do anything. Really?

GPU ram is still getting bloated as soon as you move between a couple of zones. Start with 1.5gigs move between a system or two... viola 3gigs.... How long exactly does it take for someone to genuinely sit down and fix crap that has been working badly since day 1?

When is AI going to get looked at? Why are specialists ships still do bull? Why are we still tied to CVs? Why is mining still prone to dropping the game into a slide show mode? Why are drones still more prone to being stuck in use then getting killed? Why is replacing said drones still the most out of the ass process that takes half a damn day?

I could go on for a while longer but this is just sad and I'm disappointed. I don't bitch at Ego often but I felt the need to vent at this point. I bought X:R for no other reason then to support one of my fav devs, I didn't even plan on playing. Got into playing anyway... but this is not the quality of work that I've gotten to expect from Ego in the past 2 decades. This is pathetic.

Kregoth · Post by **Kregoth** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 05:49

Ok I just wanted to say first of all almost everything you are complaining about is because the game is more complex than you think. Hell your ships run away because you got Horrible captains, and that's your fault

they have skills and low leadership and Moral means lots of running away (Escorts Help too!). Talk to your Captain and ask him to show him your skills, Fire him and find a new one if he not at least 3 star moral and Leadership.

Weapon Mods are NOT always helpful! I can understand your frustration, but 4.0 is far from wrong. Some complaints are fine. But half of what you are complaining about can be solved by spending some more time playing the game, and understanding some of the more complex mechanics the game has.

Also weapons platforms even outrange the player. They are threats YOU should deal with. They aren't that hard to take out by yourself. Once you take it out, they are gone. Fulmekrons aren't that great anyway, I prefer lots of cheap and easily replaceable fighters everywhere.

hisazul · Post by **hisazul** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 07:16

Kregoth wrote:Ok I just wanted to say first of all almost everything you are complaining about is because the game is more complex than you think. Hell your ships run away because you got Horrible captains, and that's your fault they have skills and low leadership and Moral means lots of running away (Escorts Help too!). Talk to your Captain and ask him to show him your skills, Fire him and find a new one if he not at least 3 star moral and Leadership.

Weapon Mods are NOT always helpful! I can understand your frustration, but 4.0 is far from wrong. Some complaints are fine. But half of what you are complaining about can be solved by spending some more time playing the game, and understanding some of the more complex mechanics the game has.

Also weapons platforms even outrange the player. They are threats YOU should deal with. They aren't that hard to take out by yourself. Once you take it out, they are gone. Fulmekrons aren't that great anyway, I prefer lots of cheap and easily replaceable fighters everywhere.

...............

1. Do not posses a single employee below 5 stars. Stop trying and go actually play the game. None of the stats affect that mechanic in any capacity. There is a detailed post explaining numeric effect of every skill... considering what you said I don't think you actually know what npc skills do.

2. Playing the game doesn't make weapons better. If I craft 100 high end weapon mods and not a single one is for the actual weapons that I have... the best ones as a matter of fact... no amount of playing/understanding oh so complex system is going to fix that. Repeater mk3 trumps every other weapon short of heavy laser. Why? Because it cools down faster then anything else by a large margin. Again take your own advise and actually play.

3. All npc stations get repaired, except overwatch. So again... you need to actually go and play the game. Shooting them down once solves absolutely nothing. If I tried to protect my 30 something stations with fighters I'd spend every living moment of my life dealing with out of the ass method of repairing stations though a dead weight ship that hangs a few dozen kilometers away from the said station. So again... no thx.

Game is more complex then I think? Honestly I think you are confused. Ability to add engineer to your own station takes EXACTLY 1 line of ****** code. Complex? Really? Wanna guess how many lines it takes to fix assault urv that has not functioned since day 1? Or how many lines it took people to fix ballor/succelus ai?

Geez man. Everyone can throw words around but you seem not capable of backing most of your claims.

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 08:04

Much to my disappointment I have to agree with hisazul, I think the game is beautiful and has so much potential that it is a sin that so much of it misguided and pointless.

1. Weapon Mods ... In 80% of drops I get mods for MK1 weapons that I have upgraded from, the remaining 19.9 % are discarded because they are for weapons I do not have installed .. The final .1% are considered but only those that include cooling have a chance of being used ...
The result is that my weapon of choice is a highly cooled soft glove that gently strokes the enemy into submission .. or burst, change, burst, change, burst and so the continual cycle of weapons.
It is obvious that who ever introduced weapon mods has never ever enjoyed a dogfight scenario.

2.Hidden Missions ... Why ...? I want to spend time on the mission not looking for it

3. Economic Software Charty thing .... Why ..? What is the point of this when the rest of the economy does not function properly or reliably ... I can only automatically trade in a bubble, prices of products vary without rhyme or reason .... This was offered to the Terran/Albion players but was rejected so we got it.

4. Lockboxes ... This is a personal grievance ... I never do lockboxes, why, because I use a joystick and targeting the locks does not work, if I switch to mouse then 100% success rate ... So one could call this a targeting problem and the ability to highlight the required spot.....

I regret still having to moan about the same repeated flaws but whoever the Gameplay Guru is at Egosoft then "could do better" .

CommanderTM · Post by **CommanderTM** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 11:04

There surely are some aspects of the game that makes me wonder, how anyone did not see this even on drawing board...

But, i enjoy the game a lot. Probably because trading and station building aspect of this game is a lot stronger than fleet commander aspect and i often tend to lean on it the most.

I quite like the new flee mechanic from a traders and builders point of view. I havent lost a single xl trader because they flee when in trouble. Also, it is a lot more interesting and realistic to board cause i always have to take out jump drive first... then engines, so the ship you want to board cant escape.

I have lost my share of ships i wanted to board because they jumped away but it always was my own fault not checking the state of ships jump drive. In my opinion, if you sometimes loose a bit, it makes it more rewarding when you win.

Have installed some weapon mods but one of it made one of my weapons unusable due to high heat output. And i rarely see a mod that seems worth it. I think it is too balanced

But, it may have been the idea all along - You dont upgrade your weapon with mods, you just make it act differently. So, i doubt i use mods for weapons very much, i have got used to their original cooldowns and damage rates and modifying them just screws with the flow of the game.

I never knew there were hidden missions. Are they worth finding?

I havent used Economic Software yet... i understand how to use it but i cant seem to get any valuable intel out of it. I guess i just have to explore it more.

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 11:56

birdtable wrote:1. Weapon Mods ... In 80% of drops I get mods for MK1 weapons that I have upgraded from, the remaining 19.9 % are discarded because they are for weapons I do not have installed .. The final .1% are considered but only those that include cooling have a chance of being used ...

Just the cooling mods? Think you're missing out. Personally find mods which increase range, number of projectiles & shot speed (i.e. reduced deflection) are also quite handy in a dogfight.

4. Lockboxes ... This is a personal grievance ... I never do lockboxes, why, because I use a joystick and targeting the locks does not work, if I switch to mouse then 100% success rate ... So one could call this a targeting problem and the ability to highlight the required spot.....

Just takes a bit of practice. I also use a joystick almost exclusively (mouse is essentially just used for wandering around stations) & don't have too many issues with lockboxes. Occasionally they go boom but most of the time I can retrieve the contents. Just need to take into account where the weapon I'm using is located on the Skunk when aiming, wait for the lock to rotate into view & shoot. Personally find it a lot more fun that there isn't any targeting for this. Adds an element of skill to it & makes scooping up all the loot much more satisfying. Would not want a 100% success rate myself.

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 12:52

......No comment

Leafcutter · Post by **Leafcutter** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 20:13

These games are so ambitious and the average X player is so discerning, that it must be a difficult task for Ego to provide all the toys in the sandpit and have them all working correctly, not just on there own but in combination with each other.

There are still so many things that need fixing / adding, and yet in comparison, spend a moment considering what is in and working

Personally, for all the bluster about how shit station interiors are, I really want this part of the game to be immensely improved... not since Freelancer has one been able to fly outside and walk about inside... in fact come to think of it this is the only game ever where one can do this.

Despite the poor NPC, grannys etc, the limited conversations, repetitive interiors, there is so much already on offer that just needs refining.

Its a slow iterative processes... I would like to hear from Egosoft management whether they plan of 5.0 or if that's it until a new game comes out.

Cheers
-LC-

Kregoth · Post by **Kregoth** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 20:56

I apologize for my early post, I was tired last night and I was grumpy

. Then I read a rather angry post with nothing written other than complaints. I do agree that their are some unpolished pieces in the game. But the game is so massive, that at times with so many variables that affect things, that sometimes we might not fully understand the inner workings of the game.

I get being angry at the game, but next time take that energy and use it to make your post more informative, Egosoft continues to add and refine the game. This game is so massive it's nearly impossible to not have issue's with new features, and their hasn't been a moment yet where Egosoft has ignore features we provide feedback for. Healthy criticism with solid feedback and suggestions, is what Egosoft needs, not angry post about how you don't like something. The more often and more frequent we do this, the fast we will see it addressed!

Leafcutter wrote:Its a slow iterative processes... I would like to hear from Egosoft management whether they plan of 5.0 or if that's it until a new game comes out.

To be totally honest, I wish that instead of making a whole new game, that Egosoft create a new massive expansion to Rebirth. Something that is considered a stand alone game by itself for a full price(X4 IIRC). BUT if you own Rebirth you can combine the two products into one much larger experience! I don't really want to invest in another product by Egosoft that's separate. I want to invest in a product that evolves and expands over time into a much larger and massive experience. I thought that was why it was called Rebirth in the first place!?

I honestly feel that more Developers should look into something like this, for those larger overly complex games that take several years to make, and cost a fortune. Installments that are complete games in themselves, but are part of a larger game when combined. I have no clue if that possible now, but I'd love to see something like this with Egosoft

CommanderTM · Post by **CommanderTM** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 21:40

Kregoth wrote: To be totally honest, I wish that instead of making a whole new game, that Egosoft create a new massive expansion to Rebirth. Something that is considered a stand alone game by itself for a full price(X4 IIRC). BUT if you own Rebirth you can combine the two products into one much larger experience! I don't really want to invest in another product by Egosoft that's separate. I want to invest in a product that evolves and expands over time into a much larger and massive experience. I thought that was why it was called Rebirth in the first place!?

On some other thread i also mentioned that i wouldnt mind devs reusing assets like stations and textures and ships... with some tweaks here and there. Graphic side of Rebirth is solid. With totally new UI and commands and mechanics, this would be a nice one to pay for. And, it would really speed up development of that new game.

Graaf · Post by **Graaf** » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 23:22

Kregoth wrote:To be totally honest, I wish that instead of making a whole new game, that Egosoft create a new massive expansion to Rebirth. Something that is considered a stand alone game by itself for a full price(X4 IIRC). BUT if you own Rebirth you can combine the two products into one much larger experience! I don't really want to invest in another product by Egosoft that's separate. I want to invest in a product that evolves and expands over time into a much larger and massive experience. I thought that was why it was called Rebirth in the first place!?

Unfortunately that "new game expansion" isn't possible due to the design decisions of Rebirth.

hisazul · Post by **hisazul** » Sun, 13. Mar 16, 20:04

Kregoth wrote:I apologize for my early post, I was tired last night and I was grumpy . Then I read a rather angry post with nothing written other than complaints. I do agree that their are some unpolished pieces in the game. But the game is so massive, that at times with so many variables that affect things, that sometimes we might not fully understand the inner workings of the game.

I get being angry at the game, but next time take that energy and use it to make your post more informative, Egosoft continues to add and refine the game. This game is so massive it's nearly impossible to not have issue's with new features, and their hasn't been a moment yet where Egosoft has ignore features we provide feedback for. Healthy criticism with solid feedback and suggestions, is what Egosoft needs, not angry post about how you don't like something. The more often and more frequent we do this, the fast we will see it addressed!

Leafcutter wrote:Its a slow iterative processes... I would like to hear from Egosoft management whether they plan of 5.0 or if that's it until a new game comes out.
To be totally honest, I wish that instead of making a whole new game, that Egosoft create a new massive expansion to Rebirth. Something that is considered a stand alone game by itself for a full price(X4 IIRC). BUT if you own Rebirth you can combine the two products into one much larger experience! I don't really want to invest in another product by Egosoft that's separate. I want to invest in a product that evolves and expands over time into a much larger and massive experience. I thought that was why it was called Rebirth in the first place!?

I honestly feel that more Developers should look into something like this, for those larger overly complex games that take several years to make, and cost a fortune. Installments that are complete games in themselves, but are part of a larger game when combined. I have no clue if that possible now, but I'd love to see something like this with Egosoft

Ego already stated that some of the things planned for next title can't be put into Rebirth. And like Graaf said some decisions they made make Rebirth a stand alone title that can't be expanded on too much.

As technology changes, game engine gets refined or entirely replaced that is the reason why we can't continuously add onto a title. It's too time consuming to constantly rewrite things and adjust them to a new engine. Some mechanics simply do not work and have to be scraped and so on and so forth. Rather then leaving game in a perpetual state of barely holding together new games are atm the way to go simply from practical and technical standpoint. Pretty sure things would be a lot worse if our X3 evolved into X:R.... and we had no X3 to fall back to... folks payed for X3 as it was they want that, it should be left alone for them to enjoy and not get changed into something they didn't ask for.

TrashAngelMP · Post by **TrashAngelMP** » Sun, 13. Mar 16, 20:49

Kregoth wrote:Ok I just wanted to say first of all almost everything you are complaining about is because the game is more complex than you think.

offtopic
Can I take a moment and just laugh about that statement. No, seriously. Calling XR complex?

Now I can admit that Egosoft won. People who downvoted X3 games on steam because they are "too complex - not recommended" are now finally in love with Egosoft and their new "complex" game.
/offtopic

Kregoth · Post by **Kregoth** » Sun, 13. Mar 16, 21:43

hisazul wrote:As technology changes, game engine gets refined or entirely replaced that is the reason why we can't continuously add onto a title. It's too time consuming to constantly rewrite things and adjust them to a new engine. Some mechanics simply do not work and have to be scraped and so on and so forth. Rather than leaving game in a perpetual state of barely holding together new games are atm the way to go simply from practical and technical standpoint. Pretty sure things would be a lot worse if our X3 evolved into X:R.... and we had no X3 to fall back to... folks payed for X3 as it was they want that, it should be left alone for them to enjoy and not get changed into something they didn't ask for.

Trust me I know this and totally understand that Rebirth in it's current state is not capable of being like this, but I am tired of Sequels and remakes. I feel games get shafted in terms of what Developers consider "Content" Fallout 4 is a perfect example, theirs 400 hours worth of quest "Content" But it all the same you kill and clear an area, or bring some stupid pointless item to an NPC, so it's more like 400 hours of textures and buildings to look at!

Content in Rebirth is far more massive than Fallout 4. I imagine many more hours of play time in my lifetime with this game, because it's content is expanded by the systems and mechanics the game uses for simulation and interactivity. Content in this case for Rebirth is probably over a thousand hours. Egosoft is one of the few Developers that understand how Game Mechanics and System and how players interact with them that make for the majority of the game's content.

I would love to buy X4 as a new game, but I would also love to see that additional content and features that are capable of being added, implemented in Rebirth as an expansion when you buy x4. this would give a longer life to their previous games, and in turn gain a longer lifetime in people's lives! they don't have to devote massive time to doing it, but enough that it lets player want to jump back in and play, which also might make players want to purchase the older game as well.

I know that you need to change or rebuild an engine to update with everchanging hardware. So moving on to a new game makes sense at that point. But what if Egosoft changed how their games interconnected with each other, allow for some transference both large and small depending on the changes and the game. Something that lets all players feel like they are continuing their adventure somewhat.

What I would love to see which Egosoft partially does, is keep all their games under a somewhat singular connected universe. It may change vastly at times and sometimes you might have to start all over and relearn everything, but sometimes information between both games can make a transference between each game. they don't always need to merge them completely together, but sometimes I want to feel like I am still continuing my adventure of Egosoft games under a connected universe.

for example: what if X4 reads a Rebirth save, it would make a mission to find your families lost inheritance with a reward based off that information. Or maybe you start with a ship you owned that makes a reappearance in the next game. Or maybe you get to choose what kind of things come with you based of some point value. Or maybe you're old save asset's become a faction in the game. This also can cause people to want to purchase the older games to build a save for the new game! it could also transfer X4's better models, textures, graphics, etc, into Rebirth giving the game a new look.

Let's also say that Egosoft wants to make their first FPS. By itself it's a solid FPS game with several hours of content, but when finished and complete it also acts as an expansion to X4 (optional to play with or without) and you have yourself a whole new way to interact with X4, expanding the game content even further, adding even more value to both games!

This is what I am getting at, allowing for everyone to continue adventuring into the next game, at some point they start over with a new engine, but allowing for the new game to also transfer information that can make it across. Even if you have to play the new game from scratch, it be nice to know I had an effect in the next games universe that changes based on my save file. This really makes wanting to buy all of Egosoft game's a far more valuable endeavor to me. They don't have to always do this, and when it's impossible I am fine with it.

UPDATE: TL;DR? Basically by combing and connected all their games, into a more somewhat singular long term experience, means that all of Egosoft games gain a massive jump in Value and insure purchases far into the future!

hisazul · Post by **hisazul** » Tue, 15. Mar 16, 07:03

X games are sandbox games though and though. Previous games revolved around space simulation with everything that includes.

Save transfer is something that belong to rpgs. Look at mass effect... ew.

Fallout 4 was actually the first good fallout game. But it's a different genre entirely with different things that appeal to it's audience. There it's weapon farming and shooting everything in your way. What gives X titles longevity is usually building empires.

Ego team is tiny. Spending time on making retroactive universe is just not practical. In the time frame that universe went from Albion Prelude to Rebirth, ship design changed, engines changed blah blah and decades passed. Yes theoretically speaking Skunk is albion pride m6 that was in fact in AP but it got dated badly even story wise. It's size is impractical in Rebirth setting. It's neither fish nor meat and that is why it struggles.

Anyhoo this way off topic now. I wanted to vent about idiotic running mechanic that pissed me off and the fact I still have to deal with stations going bat shit retarded because god forbid while defending them from xenon attack I hit it once with a plasma canon. FFS. It's almost as bad as not fixing a drone type that has not worked since day 1. Now that I vented I'm back to building stations until game runs out of space for stations. Tho it would help if I would get damn SETA... 100s of each piece except for the broken seta ~_~

CommanderTM · Post by **CommanderTM** » Tue, 15. Mar 16, 08:42

hisazul wrote:Look at mass effect... ew.

You cant say "ew" to Mass Effect... its heresy!!

Warnoise · Post by **Warnoise** » Tue, 15. Mar 16, 09:13

It seems that Egosoft developers are relying too much on modders.

CommanderTM · Post by **CommanderTM** » Tue, 15. Mar 16, 12:22

Warnoise wrote:It seems that Egosoft developers are relying too much on modders.

Its hard not to... if you have small team, 200 unticked tickboxes and 6 months until release...

PS: not saying it really happened... but if time is not enough, you have to prioritize.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Too much wrong with 4.0 and HoL

Too much wrong with 4.0 and HoL