Egosoft creative director?

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vukica
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Post by vukica » Wed, 1. Jul 15, 09:13

Nanook wrote:
vukica wrote:....
i know egosoft does this, and did this many times, but you should really keep up with modern times and do it before full release.....
There's one 'minor' flaw with this idea. Modders don't get access to prerelease Egosoft games. They have to wait for the full, paid version before they can create mods. And generally they have to play it a bit just to see what they'd like to change. :wink:
beta access with workshop? something like starpoint gemini, cities: skylines, talos: principle, etc.

i know egosoft doesn't do this. that's the point of my argument. they really need to change anything, or we'll have another x-rebirth. NOBODY wants that, not even the competitors.
Split say NEED MORE FIREPOWER!!

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Ketraar
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Post by Ketraar » Wed, 1. Jul 15, 11:25

You have it all backwards really. Citing Skyline as example is silly too, given the modder you are referring to is a game dev and thus does not really qualify as a modder really (not least due to him being paid). Starpoint Gemini 2 was on early access for a year, so there is that.

In any case, as pointed out, modders have to first play the game and get familiarized with it and only then the need to mods starts. The notion that modders are unpaid game devs is just ridiculous, modding is a hobby people do for THEIR enjoyment with the bonus side effect that you get additional content or tweeks in gameplay to your games. Modding is not given, never expect it.

MFG

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ezra-r
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Post by ezra-r » Wed, 1. Jul 15, 15:06

Rather than talking about mods, I'd rather have people here add creative ideas regarding exploration and tell how Egosoft how to improve the game to make the space LESS EMPTY.

They need it since they don't have anyone fixed only for that role, or maybe I misinterpret but it seems to me for Xenon_Slayer reply implies that they are still not focused enough in it.

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Post by A5PECT » Thu, 2. Jul 15, 13:12

I agree the XR universe needs more life, but I'd prefer to approach it from the angle of factions. Things like more dynamic reputation, i.e. gaining reputation with one faction decreases reputation with its opposing faction(s). That way, while you might be able to be on neutral/friendly terms with everyone, you can't get into the highest level of a particular faction's good graces without making at least one enemy in the process.

I'd like faction reputation to generate more active consequences for the player, as opposed to the largely passive consequences currently in practice. Right now, reaching low reputation with a faction means they limit or prevent trading, and attack the player when entering their space. Reaching high reputation simply grants economic bonuses such as discounts and access to licenses. Those things are all good, but they're only the most fundamental reactions for a reputation system, imho.

When you hit the extreme ends of a faction's reputation bar, there should be more tangible, focused events to go along with it. Getting on very good terms with a faction will lead them to offer special missions and services, unique to that faction, that the player can't get anywhere else. Going far into negative standing with a faction should prompt various acts of aggression towards the player and their property, military or economic. It does lean towards the concept of random encounters, but they can be attributed to specific causes. So they aren't purely random encounters, just conditional ones with just a bit of randomness thrown in for variety.

Dynamically-owned territories would be great, as well. ES doesn't necessarily have to jump straight into "any faction can potentially take over the entire universe, including the player," as is popular in third-party modifications. A few specific areas of neutral space that can change hands, placed between statically-owned territory would be a good start.

P.S. This topic seems to be growing increasingly unfit for this subforum...

{Agreed - Moved to Rebirth forum, Xenon_Slayer}

pref
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Re: Egosoft creative director?

Post by pref » Thu, 2. Jul 15, 14:02

Xenon_Slayer wrote:Bernd is of course on top when it comes to creative direction.
This 'of course' sounds scary. Hope he gets some intense help after XR.

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Post by ezra-r » Thu, 2. Jul 15, 14:05

A5PECT wrote:I agree the XR universe needs more life, but I'd prefer to approach it from the angle of factions. Things like more dynamic reputation, i.e. gaining reputation with one faction decreases reputation with its opposing faction(s). That way, while you might be able to be on neutral/friendly terms with everyone, you can't get into the highest level of a particular faction's good graces without making at least one enemy in the process.

I'd like faction reputation to generate more active consequences for the player, as opposed to the largely passive consequences currently in practice. Right now, reaching low reputation with a faction means they limit or prevent trading, and attack the player when entering their space. Reaching high reputation simply grants economic bonuses such as discounts and access to licenses. Those things are all good, but they're only the most fundamental reactions for a reputation system, imho.

When you hit the extreme ends of a faction's reputation bar, there should be more tangible, focused events to go along with it. Getting on very good terms with a faction will lead them to offer special missions and services, unique to that faction, that the player can't get anywhere else. Going far into negative standing with a faction should prompt various acts of aggression towards the player and their property, military or economic. It does lean towards the concept of random encounters, but they can be attributed to specific causes. So they aren't purely random encounters, just conditional ones with just a bit of randomness thrown in for variety.

Dynamically-owned territories would be great, as well. ES doesn't necessarily have to jump straight into "any faction can potentially take over the entire universe, including the player," as is popular in third-party modifications. A few specific areas of neutral space that can change hands, placed between statically-owned territory would be a good start.

P.S. This topic seems to be growing increasingly unfit for this subforum...

{Agreed - Moved to Rebirth forum, Xenon_Slayer}
Although I agree that factions could get some work, I don't see how it is on-topic for exploration or making space less empty and Rebirth to make it feel less empty/robotic :shock:

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Post by birdtable » Thu, 2. Jul 15, 14:27

I am afraid I have to disagree with some comments regarding the input of creative ideas from the forum members, most support their own favoured direction...
I would prefer Ego develop their own concepts but give the mod makers the tools and access to remove, change or add individual tweeks.
All I ask is that those concepts introduced by Ego work ... We are nearly 2 years after the launch of XRebirth and we still cannot build an effective TRADE Empire or a Combat/Defensive Fleet without frustrating micro management and then I would not call it in any way effective, efficient or enjoyable.
Remember .... TRADE, FIGHT, BUILD, THINK.

Still some great moments to be had in the game .... Seeing a Titurel come boosting in with all guns blazing to protect another ship under the process of being boarded is still a sight/experience to revel in... So not all bad :)
Cannot get that from any other Solo Space Sim.

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Re: Egosoft creative director?

Post by BigBANGtheory » Fri, 3. Jul 15, 10:48

Xenon_Slayer wrote:There are several people involved in several 'creative' aspects of the game. Bernd is of course on top when it comes to creative direction.
Before XR was released Bernd said he (the team) would look at player feedback as a source for potential enhancements he was basically trying to say not everything is possible on day1. Obviously new features have been added post release any player would acknowledge that...

Two big and recurring topics persist from the feedback to my mind others may disagree:

1. More flyable ships, which clearly comes from a comparison with X Trilogy or <other space sims> and essentially acknowledged by CBJ to being worked on for the next product.

2. Fleet command, tactical UI, "strategic and tectical gameplay through asset management" essentially as the player progresses and builds. Not really a single word on this for many product cycles, though some incremental and progressive changes are visible in XR.

From a creative PoV has Bernd/Egosoft come to a desision on point 2 because it really comes across as though it is being ignored time and again?

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Post by Roger L.S. Griffiths » Fri, 3. Jul 15, 12:34

@BBT: While I generally agree with the two persisting topics, I do not get the same impression wrt point 2. IMO they are not ignoring us, they are just not rushing out a 100% coverage fix/solution for the concern(s) in play. There has been at least one update that addresses parts of the overall problem (addition of direct commands, loosening of restrictions for squad hierarchies, and other stuff).
Roger (aka [SRK] Mr^Rabbit)

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Re: Egosoft creative director?

Post by Gligli » Fri, 3. Jul 15, 12:37

Ketraar wrote:The notion that modders are unpaid game devs is just ridiculous, modding is a hobby people do for THEIR enjoyment with the bonus side effect that you get additional content or tweeks in gameplay to your games.Ketraar
+1
Modders... World-editors... Creative directors? ihihi...
ezra-r wrote:Rather than talking about mods, I'd rather have people here add creative ideas regarding exploration and tell how Egosoft how to improve the game to make the space LESS EMPTY.
They need it since they don't have anyone fixed only for that role, or maybe I misinterpret but it seems to me for Xenon_Slayer reply implies that they are still not focused enough in it.
the problem seems more time/money oriented than due to lacks of ideas imo.
pref wrote:
Xenon_Slayer wrote:Bernd is of course on top when it comes to creative direction.
This 'of course' sounds scary. Hope he gets some intense help after XR.
I don't know how many you're involve in informatics but since you can't take his place or at least have see what this kind of job could mandate(mandate? he probably can't afford to loose), I found you harsh... You already told me what's good with XR. :)
birdtable wrote:(...)I would prefer Ego develop their own concepts but give the mod makers the tools and access to remove, change or add individual tweeks. (...)
I'm not involve in modding, but isn't that already the case?
Or you're talking about the core engine?
Maybe Modders "range" still rough atm...
BigBANGtheory wrote: 2. Fleet command, tactical UI, "strategic and tectical gameplay through asset management" essentially as the player progresses and builds. Not really a single word on this for many product cycles, though some incremental and progressive changes are visible in XR.
They are on No1 but this No2 is a big piece too...
If I remember well, they communicate less about UI than the rest :) till it pops one day.
Maybe its difficult to talk about since its more core related and effects are various (menus, commands, even gameplay). Not to say that we won't understand a word :mrgreen:
I put the little example of pathfinding:
Since you don't know about turn-based 2D path programming on a grid, you can't even imagine what it shall mean on a real time 3D environment...
On se rend vers la connaissance avec circonspection.
c.a.d, avec un immense respect et la peur au ventre.

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Post by BigBANGtheory » Fri, 3. Jul 15, 23:14

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:@BBT: While I generally agree with the two persisting topics, I do not get the same impression wrt point 2. IMO they are not ignoring us, they are just not rushing out a 100% coverage fix/solution for the concern(s) in play. There has been at least one update that addresses parts of the overall problem (addition of direct commands, loosening of restrictions for squad hierarchies, and other stuff).
I think I acknowledged this point, it is after all a progressive and incremental change nothing more nothing less.

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Post by Xenon_Slayer » Sat, 4. Jul 15, 06:14

I obviously can't say exactly what's in the works right now; just that we are working beyond the confines of the XR 3.60 patch.

We are not short on ideas, certainly not. I remember when I visited the Egosoft offices way back when (2007 I guess), I helped present many things from the Ideas Forum during development of X3TC. The ideas in that forum (still currently locked) while based on X3, can still apply for XR. And we are very aware of feedback voiced in the main forums.

Much of my time with XR was taken up by the main plot line. The whole process was limited by features in the game which did not work optimally at the time I was working with them. In the end, it helped drive some features forward and iron out issues, but there was time I wanted to spend with the Generic Missions or other forms of content which either had to wait for patches, or not happen at all.

There is stuff to look forward to, some stuff which will bleed into XR patches, others not.

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Post by A5PECT » Sat, 4. Jul 15, 12:05

Xenon_Slayer wrote:I obviously can't say exactly what's in the works right now; just that we are working beyond the confines of the XR 3.60 patch.

...

There is stuff to look forward to, some stuff which will bleed into XR patches, others not.
XR2?

XR2.

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ezra-r
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Post by ezra-r » Sat, 4. Jul 15, 12:23

Xenon_Slayer wrote:I obviously can't say exactly what's in the works right now; just that we are working beyond the confines of the XR 3.60 patch.

We are not short on ideas, certainly not. I remember when I visited the Egosoft offices way back when (2007 I guess), I helped present many things from the Ideas Forum during development of X3TC. The ideas in that forum (still currently locked) while based on X3, can still apply for XR. And we are very aware of feedback voiced in the main forums.

Much of my time with XR was taken up by the main plot line. The whole process was limited by features in the game which did not work optimally at the time I was working with them. In the end, it helped drive some features forward and iron out issues, but there was time I wanted to spend with the Generic Missions or other forms of content which either had to wait for patches, or not happen at all.

There is stuff to look forward to, some stuff which will bleed into XR patches, others not.
what can I say.. I can't wait to see what you guys are working on.

Hope Egosoft does not dissapoint. Cheers!

PS: And please, do not forget to encourage exploration!

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BigBANGtheory
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Post by BigBANGtheory » Sun, 5. Jul 15, 00:05

Could you please ask Bernd to address this specific point when ready and not try to sweep it under the carpet or talk in abstract terms.

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