My fleet vs Xenon I

[Walton Simons]

Hey guys,just wanted to share an awesome battle I had with the fearsome Xenon I.Forgive my amateur quality video but I lack skills in video editing.I also want to give a few suggestions to Egosoft regarding battles.

Enemy composition: 2 Ks,1 I and crapload of fighters
Friendly composition: 2 Sucellus,2 Taranis, 1 Arawn(I went traditional,not a big fan of Argon design in X Rebirth)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3paZ65pmpi4

To mention:
-the Ks and fighters were destroyed by my battlegroup before the video
-Xenon I is a really tough bastard to takedown,please Ego never gimp it
-the group command is useless because first time they were grouped under Arawn and they arrived one by one,not keeping formation or staying way behind the flagship.So I had to use a combo of hold position and attack commands with the capitals under my command to try to make them attack the Xenon I simultaneously(quite frustrating process tbh)
-yeah I lost the battle,still fun trying to destroy that I

To Egosoft:
-make the ships under a group to stick together or keeping formation when flying,jumping or attacking otherwise the fleet feature is useless
-Sucellus should be able to use its main gun more often
-initially I had 4 Balors too and tried to soften up the Xenon mothership with their missiles but they were blasted to pieces by the I when they(stupidly) charged it.
If they could be parked 20-30km away from their target and being able to fire their missiles from that distance they would be useful,right now they're scrap metal
-make the carriers being able to dock and repair fighters,also make the fighters cheaper.Otherwise this is a game of capitals,no point investing in fighters or frigates let alone taking them as escorts in dangerous sectors

[Tamina]

Nice one
Yea it is annoying that they don't keep formation when jumping, boosting, ATTACKING(!) litteraly everytime when they are not standing still.
That is what makes the Xenon I additionaly dangerous because it has always complete firepower while a fleet gets destroyed one after one like in a classic action movie when 20ninjas attack Jacky Chan but encounter him one after another.

Why didn't you joined the video competition with this?

[Walton Simons]

The Jackie Chan comparison really made me laugh.
Regarding video competition,I wanted to but for the life of me I couldn't get the damn ships to simultaneously attack the Xenon mothership in my previous videos and I wasn't satisfied with the result.

When I got lucky and finally managed to bring my captains to the same table and told them "ok guys you really have to work out your differences and try to die heroically...I mean coordinate your attack on the asshole I" it was too late and video competition was closed.

[Saquavin]

As you mentionned, ships behaviour really make me angry (and is discussed since the release of the game) :

- ships come 1 after 1, not capable of keeping formation.
- balor and sucellus charge to ram, whereas they are designed to be like powerful snipers with very little defence.

Egosoft, fix this please.

[Snafu_X3]

Capship AI is generally useless atm, especially combat AI

Devs know of this & are trying to do something, but no word has been spoken other than 'Noted' (or equivalent) to date Hopefully the extended dev silence means a reworking of that AI (amongst other things, such as managers )

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@OP: Fighters have their use currently, just not in capital ship fleets. I kind of agree with the carrier and fighter comments but personally I would go further in that regard... IMO all sufficiently small vessels should be able to dock at carriers (including M class and non-combat vessels). Ammo capacity and rearming of fighters probably should also be a consideration as well.

Drones also need improvement and I would expect these to come into play in battles such as that shown in the video. Perhaps additional drone varieties need to be added and drones should be launched in appropriate groups and formations where possible.

In general, it is well recorded that combat AI still needs work at most (if not all) levels.

On a more positive note, nice video and I was rooting for your team but after seeing comparable videos in the past felt you were outmatched. If you are going in with Terran/Albion only vessels might I suggest you use more Arawns in your fleet. They are tough ships and can take more punishment than any other vessel except for the Xenon I, your video demonstrated this quite well IMO since the Arawn seemed to be first into the fray but almost the last one to die.

[BigBANGtheory]

you used the Gardens of Kadesh music from Homeworld, an excellent choice

Go on tell me you don't wish you had the option of layering the HW interface into the holomap to command your capital ships. That is why imho battlegroups don't work here because you cannot command and control them. You are totally reliant on the AI / npcs carrying out high level limited commands and when they deviate there isn't a great you can do to correct them very frustrating if you are into commanding.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Even with an RTS-esque C&C interface the ships need to be able to be issued appropriate commands and to be able to follow them which still leaves us with the same fundamental AI issue.

[BigBANGtheory]

yes that is also true the AI has to be able to carry out your commands so both are linked, one without the other will yield poor gameplay

[Walton Simons]

@Roger,I use some Foltor Sentinels for protecting my factory Gigurums.
I also have a squad(10 fighters) to follow me when I'm traveling and encountering pirates but other than this I don't use them for anything else.

The top ones like Foltor&Camulos Sentinels are like 2 mil each.If they were cheaper I would use them more often.
Yeah you have a point there regarding all the smaller ships being able to dock at carriers.
We could load up a Heavy Sul with Dwalins and have a small fleet of mining ships ready to be deployed anywhere.Because the S and M don't have jumpdrives they would be more useful if they could dock.
Imagine if you have a fighter escort and jump to another cluster,you could have a few drinks,book a hotel room in those space cities,make fun of teladis and your escort still hasn't arrived.

Also,you're right about Arawn,that is a very good brawler.Thinking to add another one and maybe 2 more Taranis to my battlegroup,if I would manage to position them again to attack somewhat simultaneously I think that Xenon mothership could be defeated.

Of course I could spam it with Novadrones and disable it's turrets but I consider this a Skunk exploit.
That's why in big battles I roll like Animal Planet,observe and don't interfere.

@BigBANGtheory,thanks man,it's one of my fav songs together with Turanic Raiders and Imperial Battle songs.
IMO even today Homeworld,Cataclysm and Homeworld 2 OST are unbeatable,pretty atmospheric having all 3 soundtracks of these great games playing while I screw around in X Rebirth.
I have to say I wouldn't want the HW interface in this game,the battles are way smaller than Homeworld games but I would surely won't mind a Sphere or Wall formation(and keeping it) for capitals.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@Walton: I think you misunderstood my comment regarding drones - the Arawn and other capitals can carry drones too, it is those drones I was actually referring to rather than what the Skunk can carry.

[Walton Simons]

I read what you wrote about drones that need improvements but I was referring to this part of your reply "Fighters have their use currently, just not in capital ship fleets. I kind of agree with the carrier and fighter comments but personally I would go further in that regard" when I wrote about how I currently use fighters.
Unless you were referring about fighter drones and I was talking about S fighter ships.

[Aken_Bosch]

...Of course I could spam it with Novadrones and disable it's turrets but I consider this a Skunk exploit...

That's exactly what I'm planning...spamming it with novadrones...but no Skunk exploits, I'm determined to spam novadrones by spamming Balors directly ...I'll let you know how it goes, as soon as I have enough of them to be considered "spamming"

Very nice video, and what a soundtrack...reminds me of some very good times ...

[Walton Simons]

Would be nice if you could record it.I tried with 4 Balors but they charge and get torn to pieces pretty fast so I would say with the current AI you would need about 20 or 30 of them.
The shield goes down easily if you have enough firepower but that Xenon I has some insane hull coupled with its firepower.

[Aken_Bosch]

Only six Balors here, but with a bit of planning (and a bit of luck, but we shouldn't have to resort to luck for this ) their torpedoes are already extremely painful...I have high hopes for 8 times this firepower...the only thing insane, will be the fireworks ...

[Virtualaughing]

or
We need a command to release drones and ofc a callback command too. This "hands free" "ease of use" philosophy not working. Period.
Flying into weapons fire, shotting allies if they in the way. No evasive maneuvers. How can it be? I mean NPCs fighting NPCs won't ever change.

Once a python of mine chased a K hundreds of kilometers off from the center. Without the remote control to turn it back, they may fighting even now