no to entice a flamewar, but
wich one of the big 2 mods is the better for what kind of player/situation.
What are each of their benefits compared to one another?
X-tended vs xrm
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I have played all three, and it really depends on your style.
Litcube's Universe is a more strategic approach where you build your empire for a specific purpose, namely to wipe out the Big Bad at the end. It also changes a lot of the gameplay mechanics, so it might not be suited for everyone. Combat is for example much more slow paced and tactical, as the weapons recharge is severely limited and you have to make every shot count, which often leave you with the task of figuring out whether you should go for maximum carnage and risk running out of juice in a prolonged fight, or pick a weaker weapon that will keep your guns shooting for longer but in worst case ends up not doing enough damage for you to kill your enemy in time. Firing rates have also been nerfed, so while capship broadsides can do enormous amounts of damage they only shoot twice a minute, so your aim better be good. Same goes for every weapon out there.
XRM is an improvement of the regular game. It weeds out some of the more glaring glitches and gameplay is (literally) faster as many ships have gotten a speed boost. Racing through pirate space in a corvette doing 340 m/s is fun
Xtended basically throws the rulebook out the window and establish a new universe, with added ships and a slew of new things to discover. It also tends to be a bit more difficult to get started, and reading the manual is definitely recommended if you want to go there. To put it this way - in any "normal" game I can usually last 4-5 ingame days before I get reckless enough to die. In Xtended I died five times within the first two hours, learning what I could do and what I should stay away from. Then again, once you get to a certain point it gets a lot easier, as I just whacked a wing of five pirate M3s, a couple of M4s and more Discos than I could be arsed to count, and was whooping the @$$ of my second Dragon before I found myself with parts of his hull embedded in my skull.
All this was done in my fairly ordinary Mamba Raider, and if you're a skilled pilot you can punch way above your weight class. Unless the enemy got nasty stuff like military shields or heavy missiles, that is.
Litcube's Universe is a more strategic approach where you build your empire for a specific purpose, namely to wipe out the Big Bad at the end. It also changes a lot of the gameplay mechanics, so it might not be suited for everyone. Combat is for example much more slow paced and tactical, as the weapons recharge is severely limited and you have to make every shot count, which often leave you with the task of figuring out whether you should go for maximum carnage and risk running out of juice in a prolonged fight, or pick a weaker weapon that will keep your guns shooting for longer but in worst case ends up not doing enough damage for you to kill your enemy in time. Firing rates have also been nerfed, so while capship broadsides can do enormous amounts of damage they only shoot twice a minute, so your aim better be good. Same goes for every weapon out there.
XRM is an improvement of the regular game. It weeds out some of the more glaring glitches and gameplay is (literally) faster as many ships have gotten a speed boost. Racing through pirate space in a corvette doing 340 m/s is fun
Xtended basically throws the rulebook out the window and establish a new universe, with added ships and a slew of new things to discover. It also tends to be a bit more difficult to get started, and reading the manual is definitely recommended if you want to go there. To put it this way - in any "normal" game I can usually last 4-5 ingame days before I get reckless enough to die. In Xtended I died five times within the first two hours, learning what I could do and what I should stay away from. Then again, once you get to a certain point it gets a lot easier, as I just whacked a wing of five pirate M3s, a couple of M4s and more Discos than I could be arsed to count, and was whooping the @$$ of my second Dragon before I found myself with parts of his hull embedded in my skull.
All this was done in my fairly ordinary Mamba Raider, and if you're a skilled pilot you can punch way above your weight class. Unless the enemy got nasty stuff like military shields or heavy missiles, that is.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am 
DiDs:
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Eye of the storm Completed
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olek_skilgannon
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Wed, 4. Apr 12, 12:57
My personal opinion having played all 3 is that XRM comes out on top, the game is more exciting, though finding something to do in the late game can run it into the ground.
LU has done wonders, and I really enjoyed it, though once I started getting into the larger ships I found the DPS of capital ship weapons to be less than fighter armaments, it just took the wind out of the sails.
Extended I have started a few times but never got far, I found that early on I spent most of my time traveling across sectors with SETA on, as the sectors are quite large, I soon got bored, the feature list is what keeps me coming back for another try, I'll push past the slow start one day and give it a good try.
As said above, the best mod would be a combination of all 3, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
LU has done wonders, and I really enjoyed it, though once I started getting into the larger ships I found the DPS of capital ship weapons to be less than fighter armaments, it just took the wind out of the sails.
Extended I have started a few times but never got far, I found that early on I spent most of my time traveling across sectors with SETA on, as the sectors are quite large, I soon got bored, the feature list is what keeps me coming back for another try, I'll push past the slow start one day and give it a good try.
As said above, the best mod would be a combination of all 3, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
Not to derail the thread, but that's not right.olek_skilgannon wrote:[...]
LU has done wonders, and I really enjoyed it, though once I started getting into the larger ships I found the DPS of capital ship weapons to be less than fighter armaments, it just took the wind out of the sails.
[...]
The most powerful fighter weapon, the ion disruptor, has a DPS of 1749.4 hitpoints/sec, and the hardest hitting capital ship weapon, the Point Singularity Projector, has a DPS of 5305.95 hitpoints/sec, so your info must be incorrect.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am
DiDs:
Eye of the storm Completed
Eye of the storm - book 2 Inactive
Black Sun - Completed
Endgame - Completed
DiDs:
Eye of the storm Completed
Eye of the storm - book 2 Inactive
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Endgame - Completed
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olek_skilgannon
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Wed, 4. Apr 12, 12:57
Perhaps you are right, though when I went looking for weapons for the next Agon ship I wanted to purchase, the main weapon had a ROF of 2 shots per minute, and I doubt it did 160,000 damage per hit to make it anything like the "Point Singularity Projector" DPS, I'd have to load up a backup save to get the exact damage.Zaitsev wrote:Not to derail the thread, but that's not right.olek_skilgannon wrote:[...]
LU has done wonders, and I really enjoyed it, though once I started getting into the larger ships I found the DPS of capital ship weapons to be less than fighter armaments, it just took the wind out of the sails.
[...]
The most powerful fighter weapon, the ion disruptor, has a DPS of 1749.4 hitpoints/sec, and the hardest hitting capital ship weapon, the Point Singularity Projector, has a DPS of 5305.95 hitpoints/sec, so your info must be incorrect.
Edit..here it is.
Photon Pulse cannon
2.5k hull damage
5.0k shield damage
2 shots per minute or 160 DPS against shields at a cost of 1.2 million per gun.
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DerHeiligeApfel
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon, 5. Nov 12, 17:18
Little mistake here: The 2.5k hull damage and 5.0 shield damage is the DPS, not the damage per shot. The damage values given in the description ingame are DPS values.olek_skilgannon wrote: Edit..here it is.
Photon Pulse cannon
2.5k hull damage
5.0k shield damage
2 shots per minute or 160 DPS against shields at a cost of 1.2 million per gun.
If you look it up in the game files, the fire rate of the PPC is 2,8 shots per minute (in TLasers) and per shot damage is 108964 shield or 54482 hull (in TBullets). Both the TLasers and the TBullets are in the 07.cat of the addon directory. In the .cat, they are in \addon\types\
You can easily verify these numbers by actually shooting a PPC. Best results you get by using a single PPC and shooting only one shot. The difference between 5k shield damage and 108K shield damage is big enough to see immediately which one is the right number.
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olek_skilgannon
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Wed, 4. Apr 12, 12:57
Big mistake more like it, so the listed damage for the weapons is DPS, is this only for LU or vanilla and all the other mods? I've well over a thousand hours in game and the whole time I thought it was damage per shot.DerHeiligeApfel wrote:Little mistake here: The 2.5k hull damage and 5.0 shield damage is the DPS, not the damage per shot. The damage values given in the description ingame are DPS values.olek_skilgannon wrote: Edit..here it is.
Photon Pulse cannon
2.5k hull damage
5.0k shield damage
2 shots per minute or 160 DPS against shields at a cost of 1.2 million per gun.
If you look it up in the game files, the fire rate of the PPC is 2,8 shots per minute (in TLasers) and per shot damage is 108964 shield or 54482 hull (in TBullets). Both the TLasers and the TBullets are in the 07.cat of the addon directory. In the .cat, they are in \addon\types\
You can easily verify these numbers by actually shooting a PPC. Best results you get by using a single PPC and shooting only one shot. The difference between 5k shield damage and 108K shield damage is big enough to see immediately which one is the right number.
Don't worry I did the same for years too. Vanilla is also the same. damage per second.
I only realized when I starting editing the files, and could not work out why the figures in game did not match up, unless it happened to be a laser with 60 shots per second. Suddenly it dawned on me.
The good news is that it makes comparing weapons a breeze!
P.s I rather like XRM. Makes the Universe much more immersive and dangerous, and I love the bounty system.
I only realized when I starting editing the files, and could not work out why the figures in game did not match up, unless it happened to be a laser with 60 shots per second. Suddenly it dawned on me.
The good news is that it makes comparing weapons a breeze!
P.s I rather like XRM. Makes the Universe much more immersive and dangerous, and I love the bounty system.
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DerHeiligeApfel
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon, 5. Nov 12, 17:18
To my knowledge it is always DPS.
I did some modding of damage values in vanilla and AP and at least for them it is DPS for sure. I would also think this is true for any mods.
The values are not written in a textfile somewhere but calculated. So if you mod your weapon damage, the changed DPS is displayed correctly ingame.
Some other things about the damage values in the descriptions:
Weapons that do area damage do way more damage than stated (Plasma Burst Generator). But that damage varies on how you hit the target, so there is no fixed value.
There is one more property about weapons that is important, and that is size of the bullet (hitbox). Some weapons use a bigger hitbox for their bullets (Mass Driver) than others (Phased Repeater Gun).
This makes a huge difference when shooting at fighters, typically at distances above 1km you will notice it. You get the indicator that you hit the target (shaking, red flashing target box) but you do less damage than expected. That is because most of your bullets miss due to weapon spread. If the hitbox of the bullets is bigger, more of them register a hit.
Basically, you should not judge a weapon by the numbers alone.
Now something back on topic:
I'm playing LU at the moment and so far like it very much. The combat balance feels good. 1 on 1, you can still win vs. bigger ships, but it is challenging and might need some preparation (drones, missiles). If you are outnumbered, smaller ships can tear you apart. M5 do enough damage to make them a threat if not killed quickly.
Because of the reduced weapon generators, you need backup to kill large numbers. Your M3 has about enough juice to kill 2 other M3, then you need to recharge. For a defend station mission in my M3, I call in other M3 and M4 to help me, I don't have enough (sustained) firepower alone. I never had to use wingmen in vanilla, I had enough firepower alone and they only got themselves killed. In LU, they are needed and actually survive. Because of the slower paced combat, I can shoot the enemy that is attacking my wingman before my wingman is dead.
Overall, the fighting feels challenging, but not impossible. There is no "I win" button anymore. But if you use your assets, you can still do stuff. For example, I tried to board a pirate M2+which had no escort. I used an M4 (need to get close) to shoot 3 mil worth of missiles at it to lower the shields. Then I used an M6 from afar to keep the shields down and with some drones as distraction a TP actually managed to deliver the marines with the standard boarding command. Took 3 tries, but still better than expected. Sadly, my marines couldn't get through the hull.
What I also like about LU is that you don't have to hoard weapons and missiles, because they are available in sufficient quantity. A bit tight on cash right now? Sell some weapons or missiles to an equipment dock, buy them back later at the same price. I don't have to worry about "may I need that later?". Also jumpdrives. Available at every equipment dock. Found a bailed ship? Repair it with your repair laser (5 seconds for M5, 1 min for M3), send it to the next equipment dock and you can buy there everything you need to make it your wingman. Maybe you need to send it to 2 equipment docks. But far less annoying than in vanilla, where only 3 stations in the universe sold jumpdrives.
Basically, LU is "most annoying things removed" with a good combat balance and a big enemy that gives you a reason to build a fleet.
I did some modding of damage values in vanilla and AP and at least for them it is DPS for sure. I would also think this is true for any mods.
The values are not written in a textfile somewhere but calculated. So if you mod your weapon damage, the changed DPS is displayed correctly ingame.
Some other things about the damage values in the descriptions:
Weapons that do area damage do way more damage than stated (Plasma Burst Generator). But that damage varies on how you hit the target, so there is no fixed value.
There is one more property about weapons that is important, and that is size of the bullet (hitbox). Some weapons use a bigger hitbox for their bullets (Mass Driver) than others (Phased Repeater Gun).
This makes a huge difference when shooting at fighters, typically at distances above 1km you will notice it. You get the indicator that you hit the target (shaking, red flashing target box) but you do less damage than expected. That is because most of your bullets miss due to weapon spread. If the hitbox of the bullets is bigger, more of them register a hit.
Basically, you should not judge a weapon by the numbers alone.
Now something back on topic:
I'm playing LU at the moment and so far like it very much. The combat balance feels good. 1 on 1, you can still win vs. bigger ships, but it is challenging and might need some preparation (drones, missiles). If you are outnumbered, smaller ships can tear you apart. M5 do enough damage to make them a threat if not killed quickly.
Because of the reduced weapon generators, you need backup to kill large numbers. Your M3 has about enough juice to kill 2 other M3, then you need to recharge. For a defend station mission in my M3, I call in other M3 and M4 to help me, I don't have enough (sustained) firepower alone. I never had to use wingmen in vanilla, I had enough firepower alone and they only got themselves killed. In LU, they are needed and actually survive. Because of the slower paced combat, I can shoot the enemy that is attacking my wingman before my wingman is dead.
Overall, the fighting feels challenging, but not impossible. There is no "I win" button anymore. But if you use your assets, you can still do stuff. For example, I tried to board a pirate M2+which had no escort. I used an M4 (need to get close) to shoot 3 mil worth of missiles at it to lower the shields. Then I used an M6 from afar to keep the shields down and with some drones as distraction a TP actually managed to deliver the marines with the standard boarding command. Took 3 tries, but still better than expected. Sadly, my marines couldn't get through the hull.
What I also like about LU is that you don't have to hoard weapons and missiles, because they are available in sufficient quantity. A bit tight on cash right now? Sell some weapons or missiles to an equipment dock, buy them back later at the same price. I don't have to worry about "may I need that later?". Also jumpdrives. Available at every equipment dock. Found a bailed ship? Repair it with your repair laser (5 seconds for M5, 1 min for M3), send it to the next equipment dock and you can buy there everything you need to make it your wingman. Maybe you need to send it to 2 equipment docks. But far less annoying than in vanilla, where only 3 stations in the universe sold jumpdrives.
Basically, LU is "most annoying things removed" with a good combat balance and a big enemy that gives you a reason to build a fleet.
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I actually started playing it a few days agoPhlt wrote:You could also try "New Horizons" Mod (NHTC v.2.2) which includes a long and creative new plot in an enhanced universe.Zaitsev wrote:I have played all three, and it really depends on your style.
I haven't gotten more than a couple of hours in, but that drunken goner had me in stitches! 
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am
DiDs:
Eye of the storm Completed
Eye of the storm - book 2 Inactive
Black Sun - Completed
Endgame - Completed
DiDs:
Eye of the storm Completed
Eye of the storm - book 2 Inactive
Black Sun - Completed
Endgame - Completed