I Know, heard it all before - Completely lost !

[TycHouse]

Maybe it's because i'm old, maybe it's because i'm stuck in the old X'er ways but i have no idea what's going on !

Having finally (thanks tech support) got the game to run without crashing and playing the campaign there seems to be nothing fluid or intuitive about the game. The menu system makes no sense at all, even the controls for the ship make it nearly impossible to control.
I have (apparently) upgraded to a Behemoth shield and i have some sort of cannon. I have bought a trade software thing but i'm now in some bright yellow system (big sun ?) which means i can't see a damn thing let alone what's attacking me.
Feels like i'm in a Teladi Vulture with a 1mj shield and an IRE whilst being attacked by six Blastclaw Prototypes !!
I'm supposed to do something with a 'rear guard' but the ship i think i'm protecting shows as an enemy - meanwhile half a dozen fighters attack me all at once and it's not long before all goes to hell and i reload just to do it all again.

My only trade able ship is nowhere to be seen, i have two drones on board which i can't launch, a heap of missiles which seem totally ineffective. Yet apparently i have to win the fight to move on in the campaign.

I have to admit that i'm seriously tempted to throw rebirth in the bin and go back to TC/AP - yes i know it's a different way of thinking, but when i can't even call up a screen that shows the ships/objects in sector, don't understand the map/radar, can't figure out where the enemy is and can't kill it when i find it, it all gets extremely frustrating.

I have searched and read through all the posts/guidance i can find but it still makes no sense at all.

I was apparently given a Terran shield ?? but the mission guidance told me to speak to some dude (in a prison cell ??) and all he could do was to sell stuff hence the Behemoth which i had to buy.

If there is anyone that had got to the same frustrated point and managed to work though it, i would sure like to know how before i do something stupid with this dvd !!

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Mission guidance for the plot is pretty bad, you are probably not the first person to get confused by it and probably wont be the last.

At that point in the plot, the trade ship is supposed to be hostile. It is part of the mission that the people you are helping are trying to recover it. Just follow the mission markers and you should be fine - just don't shoot up the freighter unless told to do so.

The problem with HUD/UI contrast in DeVries is a well reported and old problem, can't really offer any help here except suggest you add your voice to the chorus of people that have previously asked for some form of change in this area.

The "Terran" shields available at that point in the plot should be just Mk2 variants and I would expect more than just the behemoth shield to be sold.

At the point in the plot you are at your ships have been confiscated but will be returned to you later in the plot.

TIP: Before a certain point in the plot (See spoiler for more info), it is worth doing a substantial amount of trading in Albion so you can upgrade the Skunk a bit earlier, expand your fleet a little, and perhaps build up funds and resources for use later.

Spoiler

Show

Point in plot being picking up the gun from HOA Lonely Giant.

Roguey's plot guide should help a bit if you don't mind spoilers.

[Lander1979]

I remember this fight, for me, it was the hardest one in the entire campaign. IIRC there is a bug where the ships you are supposed to help do not spawn, leaving the entire fight up to you. From the sounds of it, this bug has not been addressed yet.

I got through this fight, eventually, by triggering the enemy fighter aggression, and immediately boosting back to the friendly station to take cover. The friendly station would then take out the bulk of the enemy fighters while I hid behind it. Rinse and repeat for remaining fighters. The last 3 escort the captured enemy freighter and tend not to stray too far from it, these are the hardest to take out. approach them from angles that limit their effective range and try to engage at range using missiles. Don't hesitate to retreat, and use quick save often (F5) when you think you have made any headway against them.

Hope this helps.

[TycHouse]

Thanks guys, it's reassuring to hear that it's not just my stupidity.
I think in part my anguish is caused by the extremely clumsy interface. I always prefered to play X games with mouse keyboard and an intuitive setup for the keys, for example i only ever use the 'target object in my cursor', 'next player owned object', 'closest enemy' and 'next enemy' as quick keys. Everything else is selectable from the sector view.
However as things stand i'm forced to try and use a joystick and i'm struggling to understand the 'view' presented by the map.
As a simple example, when i find a station, land on it, make a trade contact etc. After i've left the station i can't tell that i ever docked there, i know there is a way but ?? forgotten.

Also, where is the seta drive ?

Boost is useless as i boost towards a target when i get there my shields are non-existent and if i need to escape a fight that i'm losing i can't because i have no shield !

I'm sure to newcomers the game is exiting but i really can't see all those true (1999) x'ers sticking with it especially with the other *cough* ED *cough* now available.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

The debate about how good or bad X-Rebirth is, is an on-going debate with more and more people converting from the bad camp to the good camp as Egosoft continue to address this or that issue. The real point is X-Rebirth was always touted as being both new and different but not everyone understood the underlying message or it's implications.

As for playing with keyboard and mouse, it is fully functional but may take some getting used to the method of flight control. I am using it and have pretty much been using it happily since release but then I converted from Joypad to K+M with X3:AP after a certain update. The two are pretty similar IMO.

SETA - that is dead and buried, no SETA in X-Rebirth and from what I can tell no SETA will be added in the future either. Whether they will add Sleep/Wait functionality ala RPG games is unknown, but I would not hold my breath personally.

Boost in X-Rebirth is pretty much the same as the Turbo-Boost extension from the X3:AP bonus pack (albeit with only shield draining - no consumption of e-cells or spaceflies). It can be used to great effect but you have to learn when to and when not to use it - Dashing Shields are probably the best shields to have in order to maximise boost effectiveness and availability.

In X-Rebirth, you need to keep a good eye on things and try to avoid entering into dog-fights with any more than 3-4 targets at a time unless you are some kind of "Maverick" Ace pilot that is, there may be some of us that can handle double that with their skills (not me though).

One answer to fur-balls is lots of Sunstalker missiles, 3-4 of them will probably take out most fighters.

Another thing that may help are the Shield Support URVs which help boost the Skunk's shield recharge.

Straff and spiral manoeuvre is the most effective bullet dodging tactic IME, and do not be afraid to use the environment to your advantage. Hide close in on asteroids, stations and capital ships if you they are available. Not much help during the specific mission you are talking about though.

It is in part because of that specific mission that I suggested premature upgrading of the Skunk during the initial Albion phase of the plot - it may cost more but it may also make the rest of the plot easier to cope with.

[TycHouse]

Ok using all the tips you all gave i have managed to dock with the damaged red ship, unfortunately whilst wandering about on deck i fell through the graphics and died !!
So now i'm doing it again but, my mouse cursor has err... gone. As i was using fire at cursor i now can't even hit the station let alone a fast moving fighter - time to reload game i fear.

One question, after the fight how do i find any dropped cargo ? Unles by pure chance being close enough and seeing the blue dashed circle i can't figure out the radar. Do i need to do a long range scan ?

[GCU Grey Area]

Straff and spiral manoeuvre is the most effective bullet dodging tactic IME

Prefer supercharged engines myself for dodging bullets. If you can outrun enemies it often makes it hard for them land a hit - mk4 tops out at 320m/s, faster than most of the fighters I've gone up against. Looking forward to finding out what the mk5 will do but still lacking 1 component before I can build it.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@GCU: I used to swear by the supercharge tactic but something changed with the AI and I found it was not enough to guarantee success for me any more (I put it on par with the X2 KMA manoeuvre with the Split Dragon, after a certain update I had to switch to an Osprey instead for the same role). Great for escaping but if you need to be in the fur-ball fighting I was at a disadvantage which is why I switched to sidewinder engines and have not yet regretted the decision... I sometimes swear at myself for making the mistake of not properly assessing a fight before engaging though.

[GCU Grey Area]

@GCU: I used to swear by the supercharge tactic but something changed with the AI and I found it was not enough to guarantee success for me any more (I put it on par with the X2 KMA manoeuvre with the Split Dragon, after a certain update I had to switch to an Osprey instead for the same role). Great for escaping but if you need to be in the fur-ball fighting I was at a disadvantage which is why I switched to sidewinder engines and have not yet regretted the decision... I sometimes swear at myself for making the mistake of not properly assessing a fight before engaging though.

Interesting - it was the same AI change which prompted me to switch engines as well, just the other way (from equalised to supercharged). Takes a very different approach to dogfighting to use supercharged engines effectively, but certainly been dying a lot less since swapping to the new engines after I got the hang of it. Strafe in particular has to be used in a completely different manner - with supercharged engines it's fairly useless for flying evasively & instead needs to be actively used to assist in the turns in order to stay on the tail of elusive opponents. Feels really good though, powersliding into the turns to keep enemies in the crosshairs. Also good throttle control is essential, up to & including chucking it into full reverse before boosting off in a new direction for major course changes.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@GCU: Do you use a flight stick per chance?

I have found throttle control on the mouse to be a little squirrely, but good enough.

[GCU Grey Area]

@GCU: Do you use a flight stick per chance?

I have found throttle control on the mouse to be a little squirrely, but good enough.

Correct - a rather old & decrepit Saitek Cyborg 3D, had it for well over a decade. Needs quite a big dead zone (due to a distinctly wobbly handle) & some of the buttons do have a tendency to jam, but apart from that works well enough & it's proved difficult to find a replacement I like (left handed so few options available, none of which have impressed me enough to spend money on).

See what you mean about mouse throttle control (just tried it) - not exactly what I'd call precise. Mainly though it's the lack of analogue control of the roll axis which puts me off using a mouse.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Lack of analog control of the both the roll axis and strafe is one of the things that made me reluctant to adopt K+M in the first place but now I have got used to it I have found it not so bad.

At some point I may try my two favourite game controllers again and see if I can configure either as I would like... I have an old-faithful Logitech Wingman Extreme that has lasted me years (played X2 with it around 10yrs ago) and a Saitek dual-axis gamepad which has served me well in my X3:TC days and early X3:AP days.

Analog strafe in X3 meant the stick got retired in favour of the pad, with the digital strafe of X2 the stick was better IMO.

My G700s mouse does have an analog wheel setting but it still lacks finesse for the throttle really, I suspect it is partly down to how either X-Rebirth or Windows itself (or both) picks up on and processes the wheel movements (seen similar issues with some proprietary analog controllers I have worked on).

[GCU Grey Area]

Ugh! Controllers - small fiddly things which often make my hands cramp after 1/2 an hour of using one. Really don't like them at all. Anyway fine with keyboard control of strafe - always tended to fly ships rather lacking in manoeuverability (mostly M6s, often a Hydra) so generally wanted as much strafe as possible. Being able to use less than 100% strafe might be a neat option to have, but in practice is something I'd rarely have used.

[spankahontis]

Ugh! Controllers - small fiddly things which often make my hands cramp after 1/2 an hour of using one. Really don't like them at all. Anyway fine with keyboard control of strafe - always tended to fly ships rather lacking in manoeuverability (mostly M6s, often a Hydra) so generally wanted as much strafe as possible. Being able to use less than 100% strafe might be a neat option to have, but in practice is something I'd rarely have used.

It's worse when your in a cold room, heating doesn't always come on and the tips of my fingers go numb in the cold.
Absolute pain when dodging bullets.