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British law acting on our behalf against companies like egosoft REQUIRED READING
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Shenzo





Joined: 05 Feb 2012



PostPosted: Fri, 6. Dec 13, 06:30    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

WeriTis wrote:
Shenzo wrote:

This I find funny. Egosoft being such a "small company" yet they have branches in different Country's.

Office in Germany, UK, US and where else? and they only have 20 employees? There offices janitor closets or something? Hard to figure out what's the truth on the trusty old internet lol

Any way back to topic.. I am glad to see that it's not just the United States that's Sue happy/entitled these days. So much rage over $50 on this forum, it costs way more than that to take the family out for a meal.

Not to mention if anyone gets the guts to actually attempt legal action. If you have the money for the lawyers, that $50 you spent on the game is nothing. huge waste of time lol


I think you may have confused Steam/Valve with Egosoft. Also, pc games are cheaper in the US.

And if you do not care about having or not having 50$, i'll be happy to provide you with my paypal account where you can offload all that excess money of yours Wink


Ya got me! Surprised .. See so much negativity I have read. Ego soft and Steam are now the same company to me when I read these complaint threads.

It's not that $50 is nothing to me.. It's just not worth the time and energy lost raging on a forum when there are so many other things to do. I have never seen nerd rage reach such an epic level before until release day of this game. I was there opening day when WOW came out and it took like 15 minutes to loot a corpse, 30 minute que after crashing out of the game, people were more civil then on these forums.

This community used to be so helpful and positive, very sad what has happened over this last month to morale. Sure it was a let down on some levels due to not living up to expectations. Some act as if it's the end of their lives because this game isn't what they wanted it to be.

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Chips





Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 766 on topic
Location: UK
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PostPosted: Fri, 6. Dec 13, 13:00    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Billynomates wrote:

WARNING THIS PARAGRAPH COULD OFFEND SOME PEOPLE, PLEASE DO NOT READ ON IF YOUR ARE EASLY OFFENDED...I have noticed lots of the people who are defending the game are in fact now new moderators. Or were beta testers who got the game for free anyway so they have no reason to worry about a refund and feel loyal even though they know what the problems were.


Apart from the obvious issue of proving what you've said (there's none) - another question is:

How should you choose your moderators? Lets look at the options:
1) Should you choose someone who threatens legal action?
2) Should you choose someone who attacks others and argues vehemently about how awful the game is?
3) Should you choose someone you've no knowledge about as they're recent posters?

Or should you:
4) Choose someone who's shown restraint in their post behaviour?
5) Choose someone who's shown the ability to help others?
6) Choose someone who's done both of the above for years without having to be warned about bad posting behaviour.
7) Shown the ability not to be interested in stifling discussion and indeed allows discussions to continue when most (on either side of the fence) would have locked it and banned their ass.
8.) Someone who doesn't attack the poster, but will show the flaws in their claims (on either side).

As per usual, I think there's one significant factor playing to your perception.

"If you're not with us you must be against us".

The idea that if someone doesn't agree with your claims, then they must be on the other side.

Things aren't so "black and white". Those who see like this (yourself, apparently, included) should not become a moderator.

I've seen one or two moderators post how badly bugged the game was - but exercise restraint instead of going all para-legal jargon. Don't blame moderators for trying to maintain at least some semblance of use of the forum through addressing random spam, and in doing so it doesn't mean they're "against" you, either.

Nor does the fact that they may ask difficult questions - also known as "proof", or probe into claims which are clearly bluster (such as deleting this thread would be illegal... which was utterly laughable).

Bottom line - if you guys want a refund - get requesting. If you are so sure about your legal rights in the face of not getting a refund, then exercise them.

In other words, stop yabbering on and making hollow threats and just get on with it.


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naisha





Joined: 11 Oct 2008

Location: Italy

PostPosted: Fri, 6. Dec 13, 14:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Chips wrote:
Billynomates wrote:

WARNING THIS PARAGRAPH COULD OFFEND SOME PEOPLE, PLEASE DO NOT READ ON IF YOUR ARE EASLY OFFENDED...I have noticed lots of the people who are defending the game are in fact now new moderators. Or were beta testers who got the game for free anyway so they have no reason to worry about a refund and feel loyal even though they know what the problems were.


Apart from the obvious issue of proving what you've said (there's none) - another question is:

How should you choose your moderators? Lets look at the options:
1) Should you choose someone who threatens legal action?
2) Should you choose someone who attacks others and argues vehemently about how awful the game is?
3) Should you choose someone you've no knowledge about as they're recent posters?

Or should you:
4) Choose someone who's shown restraint in their post behaviour?
5) Choose someone who's shown the ability to help others?
6) Choose someone who's done both of the above for years without having to be warned about bad posting behaviour.
7) Shown the ability not to be interested in stifling discussion and indeed allows discussions to continue when most (on either side of the fence) would have locked it and banned their ass.
8.) Someone who doesn't attack the poster, but will show the flaws in their claims (on either side).

As per usual, I think there's one significant factor playing to your perception.

"If you're not with us you must be against us".

The idea that if someone doesn't agree with your claims, then they must be on the other side.

Things aren't so "black and white". Those who see like this (yourself, apparently, included) should not become a moderator.

I've seen one or two moderators post how badly bugged the game was - but exercise restraint instead of going all para-legal jargon. Don't blame moderators for trying to maintain at least some semblance of use of the forum through addressing random spam, and in doing so it doesn't mean they're "against" you, either.

Nor does the fact that they may ask difficult questions - also known as "proof", or probe into claims which are clearly bluster (such as deleting this thread would be illegal... which was utterly laughable).

Bottom line - if you guys want a refund - get requesting. If you are so sure about your legal rights in the face of not getting a refund, then exercise them.

In other words, stop yabbering on and making hollow threats and just get on with it.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

+1

Altho im pretty sure what you've said will fall on deaf ears.


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B_O_L_T





Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 56 on topic

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PostPosted: Fri, 6. Dec 13, 14:57    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Shenzo wrote:
dzhedzho wrote:
giskard wrote:
I looked in to that for a broken Oblivion disk back in 2006.

Trading Standards will not do anything for a disk issue... I tried.

Also Steam is not UK based, I believe its in Seatle USA which the wiki says is in the US state of Washington. Not to be confused with the city of that name. Yes I know, sounds a little odd. But anyway....That means the laws you need to look up are for Washington State.

I think this may be of help.... Googled it.
http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=1792#.UqELgeL9_Kc


EU branch of steam is based in Luxemburg, please read the quote from steam EULA, and let this die..



This I find funny. Egosoft being such a "small company" yet they have branches in different Country's.

Office in Germany, UK, US and where else? and they only have 20 employees? There offices janitor closets or something? Hard to figure out what's the truth on the trusty old internet lol

Any way back to topic.. I am glad to see that it's not just the United States that's Sue happy/entitled these days. So much rage over $50 on this forum, it costs way more than that to take the family out for a meal.

Not to mention if anyone gets the guts to actually attempt legal action. If you have the money for the lawyers, that $50 you spent on the game is nothing. huge waste of time lol

Under international trade agreements a company has to abide by the consumer rights of participating countries, and face any charges brought against them within that country. This responsibility ultimately falls on the developers regardless of 3rd party vendors; as far as the law is concerned Vendors are simply acting as agents for the sale of goods. Microsoft tried for years to have their EU cases heard in the US but ultimately failed, and in due course were fined Millions by the EU courts, more than once.

Further, Under the UK system you include all costs of brining a suit as part of the damages you seek, if you win, you pay nothing, its the litigant that foots the bill for the entire thing.


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Shenzo





Joined: 05 Feb 2012



PostPosted: Sat, 7. Dec 13, 03:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

B_O_L_T wrote:
Shenzo wrote:
dzhedzho wrote:
giskard wrote:
I looked in to that for a broken Oblivion disk back in 2006.

Trading Standards will not do anything for a disk issue... I tried.

Also Steam is not UK based, I believe its in Seatle USA which the wiki says is in the US state of Washington. Not to be confused with the city of that name. Yes I know, sounds a little odd. But anyway....That means the laws you need to look up are for Washington State.

I think this may be of help.... Googled it.
http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=1792#.UqELgeL9_Kc


EU branch of steam is based in Luxemburg, please read the quote from steam EULA, and let this die..



This I find funny. Egosoft being such a "small company" yet they have branches in different Country's.

Office in Germany, UK, US and where else? and they only have 20 employees? There offices janitor closets or something? Hard to figure out what's the truth on the trusty old internet lol

Any way back to topic.. I am glad to see that it's not just the United States that's Sue happy/entitled these days. So much rage over $50 on this forum, it costs way more than that to take the family out for a meal.

Not to mention if anyone gets the guts to actually attempt legal action. If you have the money for the lawyers, that $50 you spent on the game is nothing. huge waste of time lol

Under international trade agreements a company has to abide by the consumer rights of participating countries, and face any charges brought against them within that country. This responsibility ultimately falls on the developers regardless of 3rd party vendors; as far as the law is concerned Vendors are simply acting as agents for the sale of goods. Microsoft tried for years to have their EU cases heard in the US but ultimately failed, and in due course were fined Millions by the EU courts, more than once.

Further, Under the UK system you include all costs of brining a suit as part of the damages you seek, if you win, you pay nothing, its the litigant that foots the bill for the entire thing.


Wow that's a nice setup. Here in the states the little guy gets the short end of the stick win or lose lol

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