What do you think of this?

[Deleted User]

_No Child Unrecruited
Should the military be given the names of every high school student in America?

By David Goodman
November/December 2002 Issue

High School cadets in Mariette, Georgia

Sharon Shea-Keneally, principal of Mount Anthony Union High School in Bennington, Vermont, was shocked when she received a letter in May from military recruiters demanding a list of all her students, including names, addresses, and phone numbers. The school invites recruiters to participate in career days and job fairs, but like most school districts, it keeps student information strictly confidential. "We don't give out a list of names of our kids to anybody," says Shea-Keneally, "not to colleges, churches, employers -- nobody."
· Recruiting the Class of 2005
· No Child Left Behind Act
· Joint Letter from Secretary of Education Ron Paige and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
But when Shea-Keneally insisted on an explanation, she was in for an even bigger surprise: The recruiters cited the No Child Left Behind Act, President Bush's sweeping new education law passed earlier this year. There, buried deep within the law's 670 pages, is a provision requiring public secondary schools to provide military recruiters not only with access to facilities, but also with contact information for every student -- or face a cutoff of all federal aid.

"I was very surprised the requirement was attached to an education law," says Shea-Keneally. "I did not see the link."

The military complained this year that up to 15 percent of the nation's high schools are "problem schools" for recruiters. In 1999, the Pentagon says, recruiters were denied access to 19,228 schools. Rep. David Vitter, a Republican from Louisiana who sponsored the new recruitment requirement, says such schools "demonstrated an anti-military attitude that I thought was offensive."

To many educators, however, requiring the release of personal information intrudes on the rights of students. "We feel it is a clear departure from the letter and the spirit of the current student privacy laws," says Bruce Hunter, chief lobbyist for the American Association of School Administrators. Until now, schools could share student information only with other educational institutions. "Now other people will want our lists," says Hunter. "It's a slippery slope. I don't want student directories sent to Verizon either, just because they claim that all kids need a cell phone to be safe."

The new law does give students the right to withhold their records. But school officials are given wide leeway in how to implement the law, and some are simply handing over student directories to recruiters without informing anyone -- leaving students without any say in the matter.

"I think the privacy implications of this law are profound," says Jill Wynns, president of the San Francisco Board of Education. "For the federal government to ignore or discount the concerns of the privacy rights of millions of high school students is not a good thing, and it's something we should be concerned about."

Educators point out that the armed services have exceeded their recruitment goals for the past two years in a row, even without access to every school. The new law, they say, undercuts the authority of some local school districts, including San Francisco and Portland, Oregon, that have barred recruiters from schools on the grounds that the military discriminates against gays and lesbians. Officials in both cities now say they will grant recruiters access to their schools and to student information -- but they also plan to inform students of their right to withhold their records.

Some students are already choosing that option. According to Principal Shea-Keneally, 200 students at her school -- one-sixth of the student body -- have asked that their records be withheld.

Recruiters are up-front about their plans to use school lists to aggressively pursue students through mailings, phone calls, and personal visits -- even if parents object. "The only thing that will get us to stop contacting the family is if they call their congressman," says Major Johannes Paraan, head U.S. Army recruiter for Vermont and northeastern New York. "Or maybe if the kid died, we'll take them off our list.

[Rapier]

I used to think we stood a chance of sorting the world out peacfully. I'm starting to doubt my convictions.

[X-Warrior B AS]

Uhm... doesn't the government know all official details about it's people anyway ? And the military is an institution linked to the government, right ? So... why would they need this information from schools anyway ?

At least it's better than cutting more money off the nation's military force, like they're trying to do here.

[Zabre]

Of the whole thing this line scares me the most!

Rep. David Vitter, a Republican from Louisiana who sponsored the new recruitment requirement, says such schools "demonstrated an anti-military attitude that I thought was offensive."

Its just the idea that anti-military can be seen as offensive.

[silentWitness]

What Luck for Rulers, That men Do not Think... - Adolf Hitler

How Ironic... The fight to defend freedom reqires every man, woman and child to give up the very thing they protect...



To Quote America's forgotten Enemy... "Workers of the World Unite... You have nothing to loose but your chains!!!" ...

HEY!!! Bush Stop giving the enemy an argument!!!

[nobbystyles]

would it not have been easier to incite national service. then every kid would have to be in the military rather than sneak a few lines in an Education Act.

[Chimpster2000]

What Luck for Rulers, That men Do not Think... - Adolf Hitler

How Ironic... The fight to defend freedom reqires every man, woman and child to give up the very thing they protect...



To Quote America's forgotten Enemy... "Workers of the World Unite... You have nothing to loose but your chains!!!" ...

HEY!!! Bush Stop giving the enemy an argument!!!

Well said m8.

[Jericho]

It is a little worrying that the various groups cannot communicate. Surely the government must know who attends which school? How else do you prosecute the parents when the children fail to attend?

[Gandalf The White]

I think that National service would be better. They should bring that back over hear then it would teach kids more about disaplin and respect and the chain of command.

[xaotik]

I think that National service would be better. They should bring that back over hear then it would teach kids more about disaplin and respect and the chain of command.

you know not what you speak of.

[xaotik]

_No Child Unrecruited
Should the military be given the names of every high school student in America?
By David Goodman
November/December 2002 Issue

November/December 2002 issue of what, if i may ask?

[Zabre]

I think that National service would be better. They should bring that back over hear then it would teach kids more about disaplin and respect and the chain of command.

I reacon it would turn the annoying "untrained little hooligans" into the dangerous "trained little hooligans"

[Rogue]

Tis a wonderful world we live in eh?

This whole things gonna go bad real soon, so to any future pro-national service / anti-national service posters or similar, lets keep this in the realms of healthy debate, rather than unhealthy flame war. OK?

It seems to me, (and this is just my opinion of course) that with a population that large and an army that big (Even larger since Sept 11), that Drafting college kids is kinda like overkill. It's all well and good getting extra cannon fodder for bleeding duty, but what happens after the dust has cleared? All those kids lost their education and chance for a better life when they had NO CHOICE AT ALL!

Thanks Bush but no bleeding thanks would be my reply.

If I lived in the USA, which I don't.

[Chimpster2000]

I think that National service would be better. They should bring that back over hear then it would teach kids more about disaplin and respect and the chain of command.

Well don't let us stop you daz.

[RustiSwordz]

Putting criminals into the millitary to give them 'disapline' is just making them more efficient at being criminals when they come out.

National service is a method of last resort. Those who join are by and large level headed people who want to be there. Putting already dangerous people into the millitary will only hone their evil not get rid of it.

[Gandalf The White]

Hi again. Just remember, that the army is thought of as a war machine, but it does do more than that. There are many devisions that make up the army. They are bracketed into one word and because of that, we think of them as purely a war machine. These recent strikes have provven that this is not so. The fact that they were using old equipment shouldn't come into it, the fact is, they were there to bail out the country. The same when the ambulance went on strike. Or when Irland had those masive floods a good few years ago when the British army was over there in much greater strength than it is now.

So the army isn't just a group of trained killers, but for the most part that's all you hear about them. All I would say, is that we would be in a real bad fix with out them.

[Deleted User]

Vietnam in the sixties required a massive call up to the US army
(the body bags coming back were like on a conveyer belt)

At the time the UK was full of draft dodgers (including clinton probably) these guys were offering thier return tickets to the states for a couple of quid i considered using one myself but lacked the cash at the time

[Brody]

I tend to avoid the topics on the forum that look even mildly contentious since these things can sometimes lead to genuine ill-will. However, when The U.S. is the topic of discussion I find myself somewhat more inclined to participate. Please note that my comments are made in the most respectful tone possible.

I will not comment on the merits of requiring schools to provide class lists (with contact information) to the U.S. military. However, it's worth pointing out that American citizens are already required to register with the Selective Service at the age of 18. In other words, the provision in the President's education bill is probably less contentious than it might initially appear to be.

Respectfully Submitted,
Brody

[Deleted User]

XX Hello XAO.
this is the answer to your question.
http://www.motherjones.com/

[RustiSwordz]

As the world population grows. There comes the very real risk of the worlds reasourses running out. Here in the west we have technology on our side. But elswhere in the third world things will get worse and worse, running the risk of wiping out entire populations through disease and starvation.

In our own western countries as our own populations increase, so will our technology be stretched to its limits. Our free liberal laws will strain to maintain law and order to those who want liberty, as crime rockets and resourses dwindle. Forget the third world, we'll eventually have enough problems in the west with population growth and pollution/ expediture to turn our backs on the third world to their own dooms.

Eventually it will come a time where draconian measures will have to be taken to restore law and order and to oversee the handing out of what reasourses we have. And that means using millitary force. Power will be handed to the millitary. Read Robert Heilein's Starship Troopers novel.

I dont condone it, but i predict it happening in the next 30-50 years as our coal/ gas and oil reserves run dry. May not affect me in my lifetime but it will my generations children.

I predict big big changes in the way the world is run. Or our entire civilization will collaps over a barrel of crude oil.

This is not a flame postin. But a simple, honest prediction as to the way i see the wold becoming over the next few decades.