Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

[Morkonan]

Nicely done guide!

[psyclon]

Hmmmm. That doesn't work, which puts us back at the overflow tank solution.

My initial idea about all this was to have the ship stay longer at the second station, in order to not drain the first station too much, because there are other ships also loading cells from it. But then i thought about it - will there be any difference if the ship made, let's say, 1 loading per hour with an empty cargo bay or 2 loadings per hour with almost half the cargo bay full. In both cases it would load roughly the same amount of e-cells per hour, unless my assumption is totally wrong, so all this might be for nothing.

And another thing. My energy transporters refuse to "refuel" at the station, where they drop the e-cells. I don't know if that's because the e-cells are considered a "resource" and not a "product". Instead i'm using a command to load the exact amount needed for the jump, i.e. 90 e-cells, and it's working fine.

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Edit: After some testing i think i figured it out - the key is in the "minimum amount for delivery" command. It might not be clear (as it certainly was not clear to me), but this is how it functions: if you have set a ship to deliver e-cells to a station up to 100,000 units and then set "minimum amount for delivery" to 50%, after loading the e-cells the ship will wait for the amount at the other station to drop below 50,000 (as 50,000 is 50% of 100,000). If you set the supply condition to 100% the ship will wait at the first station until the second station is completely empty. So if i want my Mistral SF to unload all the 15,000 units of e-cells, i should use 15% - he will set off for the second station as soon as it drops below 85,000 units and there will be enough space to unload the entire cargo bay.

Again, if this was clear to everyone but me, i apologize for the useless explanations.

[Timsup2nothin]

Hmmmm. That doesn't work, which puts us back at the overflow tank solution.

My initial idea about all this was to have the ship stay longer at the second station, in order to not drain the first station too much, because there are other ships also loading cells from it. But then i thought about it - will there be any difference if the ship made, let's say, 1 loading per hour with an empty cargo bay or 2 loadings per hour with almost half the cargo bay full. In both cases it would load roughly the same amount of e-cells per hour, unless my assumption is totally wrong, so all this might be for nothing.

And another thing. My energy transporters refuse to "refuel" at the station, where they drop the e-cells. I don't know if that's because the e-cells are considered a "resource" and not a "product". Instead i'm using a command to load the exact amount needed for the jump, i.e. 90 e-cells, and it's working fine.

------------------------------------------------

Edit: After some testing i think i figured it out - the key is in the "minimum amount for delivery" command. It might not be clear (as it certainly was not clear to me), but this is how it functions: if you have set a ship to deliver e-cells to a station up to 100,000 units and then set "minimum amount for delivery" to 50%, after loading the e-cells the ship will wait for the amount at the other station to drop below 50,000 (as 50,000 is 50% of 100,000). If you set the supply condition to 100% the ship will wait at the first station until the second station is completely empty. So if i want my Mistral SF to unload all the 15,000 units of e-cells, i should use 15% - he will set off for the second station as soon as it drops below 85,000 units and there will be enough space to unload the entire cargo bay.

Again, if this was clear to everyone but me, i apologize for the useless explanations.

Excellent work. I don't use those functions much myself and wouldn't have been able to explain them.

To clarify on your initial concern though...ultimately the delivery freighter is going to deliver cells as fast as the receiving station uses them. It may deliver a whole load at once or a half load twice as often or some other way, but the consumption rate of the destination factory will determine the load on the supplying factory.

On refueling...the CLS won't take resources for fuel, so you have a much better plan with loading at the source for both jumps. If you needed to refuel at a drop off point for some reason (say you are setting up an ore supplier and e-cells are a resource at both ends of the journey) you would want to use a fuel tank. Set up a small CLS ship to load e-cells, which it will do even if they are a resource, then set that ship as a refueling waypoint for your freighters right after they unload.

[psyclon]

The thing is, in the case of energy transporters there is no need to refuel at the source, because he is loading e-cells anyway. And i cannot tell it to refuel at the other station, because as you said the CLS won't take resources for fuel. So instead of wondering how to set the ship to drop off X - 100 energy cells, i find it much easier to command it first to unload everything and then to load back 100 cells for the return jump.

It took me a while, but i managed to set all my freighters to take off when they know that they will be able to unload a full cargo bay. I prefer it this way , i don't mind them being on standby at the source for a while - in real life i'd much rather fool around for an hour and then deliver a ton of bricks, instead of delivering 700 kg, coming back with 300 kg to get some more, and so on

[Timsup2nothin]

The thing is, in the case of energy transporters there is no need to refuel at the source, because he is loading e-cells anyway. And i cannot tell it to refuel at the other station, because as you said the CLS won't take resources for fuel. So instead of wondering how to set the ship to drop off X - 100 energy cells, i find it much easier to command it first to unload everything and then to load back 100 cells for the return jump.

It took me a while, but i managed to set all my freighters to take off when they know that they will be able to unload a full cargo bay. I prefer it this way , i don't mind them being on standby at the source for a while - in real life i'd much rather fool around for an hour and then deliver a ton of bricks, instead of delivering 700 kg, coming back with 300 kg to get some more, and so on

I agree wholeheartedly with the dropping the full load.

My experience with energy transporters is that if I don't give them a separate refueling order they will end up eventually flying around with a cargo of e-cells and not recognize they could use them as jump fuel. On the other hand as long as I give them the refueling waypoint when they are empty they recognize those cells are jump fuel and they will not unload or sell them even if I use 'max cargospace' for the waypoints.

I actually make a 'basic list' save in data storage for whatever station is my project of the moment. It has a 'refuel' stop at the station's fuel tank (yes, installing a fuel tank is usually the first thing I do when I build a station) and has all the settings done (pay from station account, use jump drive, etc). I load it into any freighter I add to the system before I start putting in the specific waypoints.

[Alareth]

You know what I find to be a glaring omission from CLS?

A stop command in the waypoints.

I have a TS that is a dedicated errand boy. I don't need him running continuously, just every so often to grab some miscellaneous whatsit so I don't have to go hunting for it myself.

The way I use him would greatly benefit from a built in command where I could tell him to do a single loop of the waypoint list then stop, or do it three times then stop.

[Timsup2nothin]

You know what I find to be a glaring omission from CLS?

A stop command in the waypoints.

I have a TS that is a dedicated errand boy. I don't need him running continuously, just every so often to grab some miscellaneous whatsit so I don't have to go hunting for it myself.

The way I use him would greatly benefit from a built in command where I could tell him to do a single loop of the waypoint list then stop, or do it three times then stop.

Under supply conditions there is a 'stop work at base' setting. Just turn that on. You can only make them stop if you set their homebase as a waypoint, and they will stop after just the one loop, but it can be done.
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Alternatively, you can use 'buy up to' waypoints and end with a 'fly to' command. Say you want him to hang around your complex with ten 25MJ shields at the ready for you to use.

Give him as many 'buy' waypoints as you can find, a price you think is reasonable, and an 'up to' of 10. Then a 'fly to' command for your complex. If he has ten units on board he will skip all the buy waypoints and just sit there. If you take some of the shields off he will go buy more as soon as they reach the price, then come back and sit on standby again.

[Tohron]

You know what I find to be a glaring omission from CLS?

A stop command in the waypoints.

I have a TS that is a dedicated errand boy. I don't need him running continuously, just every so often to grab some miscellaneous whatsit so I don't have to go hunting for it myself.

The way I use him would greatly benefit from a built in command where I could tell him to do a single loop of the waypoint list then stop, or do it three times then stop.

Another option is to just give them the "jump & fly to station" command when you want them to stop, and reissue "start external commodity logistics" once you want them to start again - they'll remember the waypoints.

[DrBullwinkle]

Would the "Wait for request signal" Supply Condition help?

[Timsup2nothin]

Would the "Wait for request signal" Supply Condition help?

I've never used that, but according to the docs it only applies to ship waypoints where the CLS is unloading to a TL. Truth be told I suspect the reason I've never used it is because I have no idea what 'telling the pilot if the target needs his products' means.

[DrBullwinkle]

I have no idea what 'telling the pilot if the target needs his products' means.

I think it means "pressing the CLS Signal hotkey".

[Timsup2nothin]

I have no idea what 'telling the pilot if the target needs his products' means.

I think it means "pressing the CLS Signal hotkey".

But, then, I am just guessing because I only use CLS for the rare situations where it really fits. For general trading, I use a fleet of Mk3 traders. They are simpler, easier, and generally better than CLS and CAG. (At least they are if you fix the bugs. )

I assume by 'for general trading' you mean moving goods around haphazardly at minimal rates of return...if that's the case you are absolutely right about MK3 being the best fit for it.

[Timsup2nothin]

Naw... you're just wrong about Mk3's... they do everything better (and easier) than CLS and CAG.

• (But there are a couple of bugs that are easily fixed by scripts.)

Oh. When I figured out how to use CLS and quit using MK3s it must have been because the better and easier MK3s were beyond my understanding, not because CLS turned out to be better.

I should have consulted someone who knew how to use both.

Any suggestions who?

Oh, wait. Actually I know how to use both.

And I use CLS.

Funny that.

[Timsup2nothin]

the better and easier MK3s were beyond my understanding

Apparently.

On the bright side, you have documented some interesting information about CLS, which benefits everyone. So at least there is that.

For all the noise about how easy MK3 is to use you must think there's something pretty arcane that slipped by me...so please, enlighten me.

You have some 'secret' better training sector that no else has found?

You have identified the 'magic' number of them to unleash without saturation that is 'just right'?

You've got some way to set them up that isn't repeated in at least half a dozen well known guides...and hasn't been discussed ad nauseum in a thousand threads on this forum?

Or do you just want to assume that I don't use them because somehow all that readily available and repetitive information slipped by without me noticing...or ever trying it out?

That would seem hard to believe...but undoubtedly comforting.

[DrBullwinkle]

It's not that hard... just turn them on.

But I just realized that this is your thread, and is probably the wrong place to kid you about it. So I cleaned it up.

[Timsup2nothin]

It's not that hard... just turn them on.

But I just realized that this is your thread, and is probably the wrong place to kid you about it. So I cleaned it up.

You're right...it's not that hard...you turn them on and they do what they do. And once you find something that works better it's really easy to abandon them because they are not going to suddenly get better at doing what they do...unless someone finds a way to improve them, which is always a possibility. But I think the 'how to use MK3 traders' book is well past any sudden innovation breakthroughs that don't involve re-writing their scripts.

Thanks for the input and the cleanup wasn't really necessary.

[DrBullwinkle]

There are right ways and wrong ways to do some things, Tim. You may have earned some ribbing... but not in your own thread.

In your thread, I will just say "thank you" for your contributions.

[Timsup2nothin]

There are right ways and wrong ways to do some things, Tim. You may have earned some ribbing... but not in your own thread.

In your thread, I will just say "thank you" for your contributions.

You are most welcome.

As to right ways and wrong ways...I think in most situations there are more than one right way and even more wrong ways. I tend to look for better ways. In this case I find from having done both that the CLS economy is a much better way than the unmodified MK3 economy. I'm sure the modified MK3 is an improvement over the vanilla MK3 as well, making it an alternative better way. Whether it would be better than the CLS economy I have nothing to base an opinion on, since I haven't actually tried both.

[ruger44]

You gave me.ideas to,use clan in ways never thought about thanks.

[Timsup2nothin]

You gave me.ideas to,use clan in ways never thought about thanks.

You are welcome. If you come up with new ideas that expand on this please post them.