Rebirth release date. - Part 2

[Xiombargdei]

This thread is so filled with conspiracies, rage, and conflict I cannot help but laugh. I guess this is another thread to put onto my read-only list like the Steam one.

If Egosoft was communicating more and better, we would not talk about conspiracies rage or conflict, but about the game features in details and how to make X:R an even better game ...

[Alan Phipps]

@ Xiombargdei: ".. but about the game features in details and how to make X:R an even better game ..." Isn't that what volunteering for Beta Testing is about?

[Night Nord]

@ Xiombargdei: ".. but about the game features in details and how to make X:R an even better game ..." Isn't that what volunteering for Beta Testing is about?

Nope, beta testing is hard and (mostly) boring work. Quite a few people enjoy this. Much different from speculating on forums!

[Alan Phipps]

Ah, but speculating doesn't make games better.

[BarrenEarth]

No, I said if it comes out this year, that is when it will happen...

If it comes out this year, it will be in worse shape than X3:Reunion was in on release day. I know you all remember that.

Just curious, what you'll say if it will came out this year in quality better than X3:R? Would you accept your mistake or you'll continue your rampage telling that actually it's worse/more trivial than X3:R and therefore it doesn't count?

Time will say, I guess.

Anyway, I think there is only two possible "entry points" for marketing campaign - either early summer, so game will be out in late summer (but this assumes marketing on AAA level, which is highly unprobable), or middle/early autumn/late summer, so game will be out in late autumn.

Later is more probable as summer will be left for AAA announces and Deepsilver marketing team will be probably too busy to account for "second-grade" games they even never heard about themselfs.

Yes, If the game comes out this year and is in good working order when it does, I will reward Egosoft with a purchase and a review.

I will apologize for assuming it was going to be broken at release, but I will not apologize for saying it was late, because let's be honest, as soon as 2013 hit it was late, the end of the year is even later.

I am not unreasonable, but all those people saying "NDA" won't let them put out info are full of crap. NDA are signed all the time, but the developing or publishing company still has the right to market their product. NDA does not equal silent service all the way to release.

Again, with the Holy Egosoft Interwebs Support Team GO!

[Cycrow]

I am not unreasonable, but all those people saying "NDA" won't let them put out info are full of crap. NDA are signed all the time, but the developing or publishing company still has the right to market their product. NDA does not equal silent service all the way to release.

an NDA does mean silence, afterall, its a Non-Disclosure agreement, so anyone signing it is not allowed to reveal any information.

That is the whole point of them

[Xiombargdei]

Isn't that what volunteering for Beta Testing is about?

No. In a game like this, Beta testing is about ironing the most obvious bugs so the game is playable at release. Most of the time the game is already coded and its too late to change core gameplay / re-code stuff / add things.

A forum is a place of discussion. It is not a place to say "oooo" and "aaaaa" when a screenshot or video is released. It is a place where the devs should come asking their consumers and future clients what they want to see and how they want to see it, to find a compromise between the devs' vision and the players needs.

Instead of this we, the people asking for more info, are almost mocked and laughed at. I have very rarely seen this in all my years of gaming and most of the time it does not say anything good about the game to be released...

[gandy|UKCS|]

But its not fair to expect people to break NDA's as well. I have a few active over me atm even though the games have been released and one of them failed big style because they would not listen to the people that would use the game and they decided to go in a different direction and ignore all the advise they was given.

If there is a alpha/beta sign up for rebirth then i would love to be part of that

[Ratzsa]

I am not unreasonable, but all those people saying "NDA" won't let them put out info are full of crap. NDA are signed all the time, but the developing or publishing company still has the right to market their product. NDA does not equal silent service all the way to release

Super hardcore professional programmer AND a legal expert? What's next? Astronaut?

[CBJ]

I am not unreasonable, but all those people saying "NDA" won't let them put out info are full of crap. NDA are signed all the time, but the developing or publishing company still has the right to market their product. NDA does not equal silent service all the way to release.

If the NDA says that we (the developer) are not allowed to put out marketing material until they (the publisher) are ready to start the marketing campaign, then yes you are being unreasonable, because you are asking us to break the terms of our contract with the publisher and quite likely get sued as a result.

As for "silent service all the way to release", I have explained repeatedly that that is not what is happening. The "marketing silence" will be broken when the time comes to start the marketing campaign which, as I have also explained repeatedly, will be in the final run-up to release. The simple fact is that timing is extremely important in marketing, and you need to have the right new material and exclusives to offer to magazines and websites if you want them to publish something about your game at the critical time. That critical time is shortly before you want people to buy it, not when people who already know about the game start shouting for it. And once again as a reminder: you "sell" a crowd-funded game much earlier in the development process, so comparing games developed that way with a traditionally-funded development process is nonsense. So once again, yes, by demanding that more information be released, despite the fact that doing so would damage the marketing campaign when it starts and hence quite likely reduce the success of the game, you are being unreasonable.

It is a place where the devs should come asking their consumers and future clients what they want to see and how they want to see it, to find a compromise between the devs' vision and the players needs.

You seem to think this hasn't happened. We have spent years reading about what people want, from their feedback on the forum, and most significantly in the Ideas section of DevNet where the feedback was carefully organised and categorised so that we could deal with it more effectively. We also have a large team of people, normal players who have signed up for DevNet, who are familiarising themselves with the current build and providing us with all kinds of feedback in preparation for full-scale testing.

Instead of this we, the people asking for more info, are almost mocked and laughed at. I have very rarely seen this in all my years of gaming and most of the time it does not say anything good about the game to be released...

People are not being mocked and laughed at for wanting, or for asking for, more information. There is, however, a certain amount of disbelief at the number of people who demand more information or appear to believe that they are entitled to it, despite repeated clear explanations as to why more information is not going to be forthcoming (for public consumption at least) at this particular time.

Edit: Typos.

[Night Nord]

Yes, If the game comes out this year and is in good working order when it does, I will reward Egosoft with a purchase and a review.

Oh, crap, man! THAT's the reward. A full review from mighty BarrenEarth himself! Wow.

It will be something like "despite of delaying their borked product for almost a four years from my estimates, EgoSoft didn't managed to deliver whatever I were expecting from it...", right?

I will apologize for assuming it was going to be broken at release, but I will not apologize for saying it was late, because let's be honest, as soon as 2013 hit it was late, the end of the year is even later.

I am not unreasonable, but all those people saying "NDA" won't let them put out info are full of crap. NDA are signed all the time, but the developing or publishing company still has the right to market their product. NDA does not equal silent service all the way to release.

1. You are unreasonable, just because you didn't give a one single reason, which wasn't counter-argumented numerous times with links and references. That's why your prophecy has no more weight than any other average doomsday prophecy. (hint: your claims that you know "how it should be done" is not an argument, because that's an internet).

2.

NDA does not equal silent service all the way to release.

.

That's absolutely (and surprisingly) true. NDA is not equal "silent service all the way to release", it's equal "silent service all the way to the point until you'll be told to start giving the information". Hint: "you'll be told" - told by your supervisor. In Egosoft case that's someone who gives money - read Deepsilver. No info from Egosoft due to NDA means "Deepsilver hadn't told us yet that we can release information. And we don't want to loose our jobs."

[BarrenEarth]

Ok super team... The NDA is a contract between Publisher/Financier and developers correct?

So would my statement be false, I said the Publisher can break silence any time they want... they have not done so. Personally I would think a Publisher would want to generate hype to increase sales.

If the publisher is not interested in generating sales, you need a new publisher. Or if they are not interested in generating sales because we are still years away from a salable product.... bad news for us.

Not an expert in anything... just using common sense, something lacking among the super team around here.

[eladan]

CBJ has stated in the past that the marketing campaign starts about a month prior to release. You can argue whether they should start earlier if you want, but they have presumably chosen that length of time as an optimal amount for greatest impact.

[BarrenEarth]

And in regards to claims that links and references were used to disprove something I said... I have yet to see any, but ok.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/cpus/

This was the big argument that was removed before. But here is support of my one simple CPU fact that most people use dual-core processors and optimizing a game for quads is nice, but unnecessary.

In fact, in the survey by steam (egosoft's delivery system) the trend is towards faster dual cores, not more cores.

But spin it any way you want, you have lots of support here, because any dissenting opinion is squashed in a sea of fan.... never mind.

Also: Go to the old thread, you blind supporters said the same thing to people last year that you are saying to me... and said we were all pessimists and wrong. We were right then, what makes us wrong now?

[BarrenEarth]

CBJ has stated in the past that the marketing campaign starts about a month prior to release. You can argue whether they should start earlier if you want, but they have presumably chosen that length of time as an optimal amount for greatest impact.

You don't need a full on marketing campaign to say something nice about the work Egosoft is doing... Deep Silver has no info about this game and has said nothing about it's progress...

All they have to do is allow for Ego to respond to customers, or say something themselves to the tune of "we are at point A and everything looks sweet"

[BarrenEarth]

On a side note... http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/30 ... afting-ec/

Star Citizen will be complete by the end of 2014, but in August of this year players will be able to test out ships and play around with flying in the universe.

The customer care, the information release and the interaction with the community is stunning over there. If we could get 1/10th of that here, people would be a lot more happier.

IBF: "BUT THE NDA"
Answer: Then get a new darn publisher who isn't so paranoid.

[CBJ]

So would my statement be false, I said the Publisher can break silence any time they want... they have not done so. Personally I would think a Publisher would want to generate hype to increase sales.

They do. But hype too far in advance would have the opposite effect, which is why it isn't happening. I already explained this, but you've ignored it.

If the publisher is not interested in generating sales, you need a new publisher. Or if they are not interested in generating sales because we are still years away from a salable product.... bad news for us.

Not an expert in anything... just using common sense, something lacking among the super team around here.

So marketing needs to starts in the month or two before release in order to be effective, yet the fact that it hasn't started yet means the game is "years" away from release. Funny, that conclusion doesn't strike me as "common sense".

All they have to do is allow for Ego to respond to customers, or say something themselves to the tune of "we are at point A and everything looks sweet"

Which I have done, yet you've chosen to ignore it. Again.

The customer care, the information release and the interaction with the community is stunning over there.

And once again you are ignoring the clear explanation of the difference in timing of information release between a crowd-funded project and a traditionally funded one.

And finally, with my moderator hat on: you do not need to repeatedly spam the thread with new posts. There is an edit button; use it.

[Night Nord]

So would my statement be false, I said the Publisher can break silence any time they want... they have not done so. Personally I would think a Publisher would want to generate hype to increase sales.

But for some damn reason you keep blaming Egosoft for that. Deepsilver are creepy guys - we all agree with that. So what? Deepsilver is not reading this forums. They don't even know about this game! History tells us that there will be very little to no marketing, meaning that DS is generally not much interested in product. They are just keeping NDA to "keep control" if something gone wrong.

Anyway, if you want to break this silence, you should write DS direction or, at least, on DS forums at least. That's the common sense - if you want to tell someone something you should tell it to him, not to some random almost unrelated crowd.

If the publisher is not interested in generating sales, you need a new publisher. Or if they are not interested in generating sales because we are still years away from a salable product.... bad news for us.

Well? So, as someone with your outstanding intellect, knowledge and communication skills should be definitely super rich (and famous - you've promised review!), I take this as proposition to compensate Egosoft losses from breaking the contract with Deepsilver (you know, they will have to pay some forfeit + return all the money DS already invested into project) and fund further development, right?

Not an expert in anything... just using common sense, something lacking among the super team around here.

So, now you are calling us all idiots? Well done, well done... Just to note: if you think that everyone around you are idiots it's almost the same as if you think that you are smarter/more competent then everyone around you. But worse.

Really, man, what's your problem? What exactly you want to tell everyone around?

[Fallent]

Everyone should chill, quit getting personal, relax, and try guess the 2014 release date!

[BarrenEarth]

Everyone should chill, quit getting personal, relax, and try guess the 2014 release date!

Why stop at 2014? I mean we already blew past the original Egosoft approved release date twice.

http://forum.egosoft.de/viewtopic.php?t ... sc&start=0

What makes a game late by two years? What happens that makes a representative so sure Q4 2011 was release date then.... silence?