AP Community Project [Released]

EmperorJon · Post by **EmperorJon** » Fri, 5. Oct 12, 02:26

*hug*

dillpickle · Post by **dillpickle** » Fri, 5. Oct 12, 05:07

Sounds interesting - MD coding.

XyDaN · Post by **XyDaN** » Fri, 5. Oct 12, 18:40

Sounds like a good idea. I can help with:

Translation - English to Portuguese (and vice-versa)

Good luck to everyone helping

Post by **Ketraar** » Fri, 5. Oct 12, 20:31

Update OP with suggestion from both Devchat and here, also added people up to here.

@XyDaN
Hello fellow countryman

Thanks for your support unfortunately the X games do not support Portuguese language

I would like to use this opportunity to explain what the concept behind the "In medias res" narrative style is.

In Medias res means: into the middle of things
Usually when telling a story you start at the beginning and progress through it in a chronological way. Now with In Medias res you usually place the start somewhere along the story and tell the first part (the chronological beginning) either by sending the player back in time or using flashbacks.

None of those are really possible in X though, but it does not mean we cant, to some extend, simulate the same type of experience. A practical example would be if you create a new gamestart, set the player smack in the middle of the action (can be from war to whatever), have the player have access to advanced equipment (not the ultra-endgame type) the type of equipment you only get later in game. Then create a story driven event where you strip the player of all its assets and "teleport" him back to poverty, making him having only basic access to equipment like he would have at the start of the game.

This is the closest you get to experience In Medias res narrative in X as far as I'm aware anyway. This allows to have the player experience the potential of the game right at the start for a glance and when you put him "back" he knows what to work up to and more. It also allows to include tutorial-like experience like suggested by apricotslice.

In any case one of the early things that need to be defined is what we want. If we want to force a new start or not, as it will limit the options available to us. So everyone should put in a word and state his opinion about that in the new few days so we can move on. Also other ideas for story and "gimmicks" can be posted here or in devchat so that can be listed in OP

MFG

Ketraar

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Fri, 5. Oct 12, 21:42

Ketraar wrote:In Medias res ... create a story driven event where you strip the player of all its assets and "teleport" him back to poverty

Oooh... I like that!

It is always better to not require a new game start if possible, but that goal should not stop us from requiring a new start, if it is necessary to add the desired features. AP is not very mature yet, so forcing a new game start is not a huge loss to the player.

Regarding a Tutorial
The Terran Defender start is designed as a tutorial. It was my first introduction to X (in TC), and it works extremely well. The lack of jump drives in Terran space, restricted sectors, and balance of high tech but hard-to-find weapons all work perfectly in that environment.

The one thing that I found missing in the Terran Defender start (in terms of learning), is the lack of instructions about how to do things, and the fact that it is easy for a new player to forget details because there are too many new things to learn.

A simple and effective tutorial technique would be to send the player an email when a new concept is explained, including a short "guide" to how a feature works. The email should also be written to the player log book for future reference.

Killjaeden · Post by **Killjaeden** » Fri, 5. Oct 12, 22:41

the in media res is more or less predestined for use with a new gamestart. Because you wouldn't want to do that to the player if he is into the game for an unknown time. He might have a huge empire and that will possibly fall apart if you put it out of his hands (or need complete reconstruction after he regains control). So it's better for a new start that gives many assets but then removes them after some time.
I'm not a fan of the tutorial - because it will always feel like a tutorial. The only tutorial i could imagine is an NPC explaining economy, like a father would to his son. A creates meat, B uses meat to produce food, etc. But not "push this button, then go to this menu". A video tutorial is a lot more helpfull, doesn't take as much time and is able to explain it way better then just text messages ingame. And it can be done by anybody that understood X, not just by 2 people of the whole community (refering to the rarity of MD scripters).

Post by **Ketraar** » Fri, 5. Oct 12, 23:46

Yes "in medias res" idea is for new start only (if you look at OP thats where its listed).

As for the Tutorial, I get the creeps when I here it but you can do "tutorial like" introduction to the game without it feeling like one. If you read the linked opinion about tutorials you saw that I think a seamless integration of explaining game mechanics with the actual game is the best way to do a "tutorial".

Now, sure its not easy to do in X, but... if we use the tool-tip function, which has been greatly improved and used in AP over TC a lot of things can be explained without it being boring. I'm not a fan of writing things to log tbh, it gets cluttered fast, specially if you use UTs and CAGs and stuff like that. Maybe using the in-game Encyclopaedia is the better way to achieve this, pretty sure there can be added sections, even if we have to poke Cycrow for it.

MFG

Ketraar

jack775544 · Post by **jack775544** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 00:00

Code: Select all

add encyclopedia custom article: News, id=<Var/String>, title page=<Var/Number>, title id=<Var/Number>, text page=<Var/Number>, text id=<Var/Number>, timeout=<Var/Number>

add encyclopedia custom article: Information, id=<Var/String>, title page=<Var/Number>, title id=<Var/Number>, text page=<Var/Number>, text id=<Var/Number>, timeout=<Var/Number>

add encyclopedia custom article: History, id=<Var/String>, title page=<Var/Number>, title id=<Var/Number>, text page=<Var/Number>, text id=<Var/Number>, timeout=<Var/Number>

add encyclopedia custom article: Stories, id=<Var/String>, title page=<Var/Number>, title id=<Var/Number>, text page=<Var/Number>, text id=<Var/Number>, timeout=<Var/Number>

remove encyclopedia custom article: id=<Var/String>

These are the script commands for the encyclopedia. By the looks of it you can only add to one of 4 catogories 'News', 'Information', 'History' and 'Stories'.

Source: MSCI Reference

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 01:16

Ketraar wrote:I'm not a fan of writing things to log tbh, it gets cluttered fast ... Maybe using the in-game Encyclopaedia is the better way to achieve this

I agree that the encyclopedia is a better reference location, but an incoming message is still the best way to give meaningful instructions to the player.

Another idea: All equipment can be stolen
Ensure that NPC loadouts include all possible equipment, including Turbo Boosters, Explorer Command Software, Trade Command Mk III, Commodity Logistics Software, Docking Computers, Jump Drives, various scanners, ore collectors -- everything.

This would make an all-piracy game more practical. In the vanilla game, it is difficult to be a hard-core pirate because it is necessary to become friends with most races in order to buy their specialized equipment.

Scion Drakhar · Post by **Scion Drakhar** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 02:27

A message telling the player to regularly check his encyclopedia wouldn't hurt either.

Guys I don't know how many of you are relatively new to the X-Universe but I started with TC about four years ago and I can still remember how completely clueless I was. I didn't understand anything. I installed the game, started the game, and found myself sitting in a starship without the first clue of how to fly it or what I was supposed to do with it. The first few fights I got into were impossibly aggravating because I was too slow for the M5's I was chasing and didn't have any fight software AND I didn't know any of that. All I knew was I'd spent twenty minutes chasing this thing called a Xenon N around and had only landed two or three hits that it promptly regenerated. I couldn't kill it to save my bloody life! I spent hours on-line looking up how to play the game and the only reason I bothered with it was because a friend had recommended it to me. I'm willing to bet that there are thousands of people who go through what I went through and just uninstall the game.

There needs to be a more comprehensive series of instructions that take a new player from "Uuuuh, what do I do?" through to at the very least an understanding of the basics. Including, "oh did you know that you HAVE an encyclopedia?" Cos I didn't, and the manual was bordering on useless. It told me all about sezura and mizura and jazura but never once was there a mention of target prediction software or how to use it. You know I was playing for nearly six months before I realized that if I fire my weapons with the keyboard and line up the crosshair, not the reticule but the crosshair, on that prediction icon in front of a targeted enemy, that my fight command software would kick in? I didn't know that. I was so amazed when I found out because I'd read the manual from cover to cover and NO-WHERE was that explained or even mentioned. So my point is that for a new player the learning curve for this game is incredibly steep and anything we can do to flatten it will benefit everyone.

Anyway, I'm done with the filibuster.

Cheers

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 02:39

Yeah, I agree with all of that, Drakhar.

I started playing TC just under a year ago. When I first discovered the encyclopedia, it had no useful information. So I ignored it for a very long time before I discovered that new information was added as I went along.

That is why I recommend incoming messages to explain new concepts. They are easy to make, can include detailed content, and then the same content can be posted to the encyclopedia for future reference.

The vanilla game requires use of the forum. It should not be that way -- the forum should be optional. Required information should be available in-game.

Post by **Ketraar** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 03:03

Scion Drakhar, I think most if not all will say your points are valid and very much known, now I'm from back when XBTF came out so I grew with the game. The question is not if its useful to do a tutorial or not, the real question is, if it's useful/feasible to do. Say we go for the idea of not forcing a new start, integrating a tutorial for players that are well along into their game seams to me a bit futile.

What we could do is, regardless of story or anything, to add a collection information and add that to the ingame encyclopaedia, including possible hints to it etc.

That is why I recommend incoming messages to explain new concepts.

IMs are a very bad choice imo, the game has tool-tips that pop-up when you perform things the first time, additional ones can be made I guess and stored as suggested in a clean place where the player can look it up, the encyclopaedia, even if there needs to be a new section added just for it.

The workload involved in documenting all things in X like you suggest is as big of a project as any major mod, not counting the translations either. I'm not sure this is feasible given the timing imo, but should not be discouraging anyone, I just think it should not be taking the bigger chuck of effort from this project.

MFG

Ketraar

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 03:09

Ketraar wrote:The workload involved in documenting all things in X like you suggest is as big of a project as any major mod, not counting the translations either. I'm not sure this is feasible given the timing imo, but should not be discouraging anyone, I just think it should not be taking the bigger chuck of effort from this project.

Good point. The Terran Defender start already exists as an excellent tutorial start; all it needs is better documentation. And, yes, that is a separate project from doing something fun for people who have been playing for a while.

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 04:39

A tutorial could be broken up into levels. So the first part is all basic basics, next level is more into things, etc.

That way, a player can jump forward over the really basic stuff if they already know it, without affecting the playability of it.

One does actually wonder how many people there are who uninstalled the game because the learning curve was too high and they never really got started, who if they learned there was a decent tutorial available, would reinstall it ? One speculates that a lot of people who got cheap steam versions might be among these.

Scion Drakhar · Post by **Scion Drakhar** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 05:55

apricotslice wrote:One does actually wonder how many people there are who uninstalled the game because the learning curve was too high and they never really got started, who if they learned there was a decent tutorial available, would reinstall it ?.

My line of thinking exactly. I was incredibly frustrated when I first started playing. One of the primary issues is that the game manual is missing a great deal of necessary information and I do understand that correcting that is beyond the purview of this project.

Now depending on what the tutorial entails, and that's a big variable by itself, but depending on what the tutorial entails I can see one of two options for implementing it. In a new gamestart the ultra basics can be attached to the flight school tutorial at the beginning or perhaps offered even before that. On the other hand if we want to create a tutorial that teaches the mechanics of trade, or capturing, or fleet building ... you know, the really fun advanced stuff, I see all of that more easily incorporated into missions that are available to anyone as long as they install the content. Missions can be added to the cue immediately for the player to act on, ignore or abort as they choose. Another idea would be for a mission to be offered at a location that we are informed of via IM. I dunno.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

P.S. I really like some of those ships in the first post. That Paranid fighter concept art is seriously hot!

Also, Bullwinkle I laugh every time I look at your avatar.

Roguey · Post by **Roguey** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 12:11

hey guys, ive posted some news about the project onto my x3ap site, as Ketraar requested. I hope it will bring in a few more viewers atleast.
Hope its okay (and all correct): The X3AP Community Project: News.

Let me know if there anything I can do. This is a good idea, which will hopefully turn into a great project.

eldyranx3 · Post by **eldyranx3** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 15:48

Seems I'm late to the party again.

Nonetheless, if the team would have me, I would like to contribute whatever else is needed in MD code, overall fiction aspects, and final testing.

I think the player owned sector from TC is sorely missed, and since the sector owner ship itself does little to affect game balance, I would like to offer up the suggestion that the player receives it after a few easy, well guided fetch / gopher missions. It gives the player incentive to put things in it, thus starting the drive for station and fleet infrastructure.

Rough Outline / Proposal- Staking a Claim (cooked up on the fly, grammar issues notwithstanding)

The Big Easy: If the player has less than x flight time or less than y credits, a damaged, average TP warps near the player and hails them, requesting assistance. A slight tutorial on how to eject and use the repair laser ensues. Once the TP reaches 75% hull or greater, it heads to the closest friendly station and asks the player for an escort. It is uneventful.

It turns out the pilot works for PTNI / NMMC, who not only is thankful for the player protecting profits, but also offers a mission to deliver some contracted goods to a station. NMMC gives the player some credits and use of the TP. A short trading tutorial of buying and selling goods from a station ensues. [TRADE]. The player gets to keep the TP and all credits earned.

Any other tutorials go here as stepping stones. [BUILD] [FIGHT]?

The Score: If the player completes the NMMC tasks (tutorials), or if they have completed either side of the war, the player receives a hail asking of they would like to follow up on a prospecting tip. The issue is, NMMC doesn't know if the rumor is reliable. They task the player in doing a bit of legwork to track down the miner who claims to have found a new sector filled with Nvidium [THINK].

After some legwork, go here, talk to this person, get clue, rinse repeat, the miner admits that he or she only suspects that the sector contains Nvidum from all the abandoned Khaak ships found in sector. Because the NPC was one of the few survivors from Presidents End, they high tailed it out before any mineral scans could be completed.

The Claim: The player is tasked with completing the mineral assay on behalf of NMMC. This part of the story should be fairly suspenseful. Imagine entering a dense nebula right out of the jump gate, visibility nil. Radiation from an unknown source cripples the player's sensors. Uneasy, creepy music plays as the player crawls through the sector, exploring. The player passes by un-claimable Kha'ak ships, even an adrift M2.

After scanning some Nvidum rubble, which proves to be nearly depleted, the player is led to the damaged remains of a Khaak station. Ambush! Paranid warships jump in and open fire on the player. It turns out that the TP encountered in the Big Easy actually was on the same mission to locate the sector, but Paranid assets attacked before its pilot could locate it.

When beaten back, the Paranid decide that loosing more warships to patrol an abandoned Khaak sector when the Terran Conflict is in full swing is a waste of resources (not to mention outright embarrassment of having a lower life form best them). Disappointed that the Nvidium is all but tapped out, NMMC leaves you to manage the sector, but requires a annual 'leasing fee'. Once the player makes x amounts of annual payments, the sector becomes permanent player property.

This is just a proposal. I will gladly help out on any other plots as a team member.

Killjaeden · Post by **Killjaeden** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 16:07

slight tutorial on how to eject and use the repair laser ensues.

shooting the repairlaser at other races ships counts as hostile act, so that could be possibly confusing

The Claim:

-I don't think you can cripple player sensors in the way you think of
-automatically hostile paranid propably isn't a good idea
-khaak are gone in Ap, so paranids patroulling a former khaak sector is strange.
-if the sector should become player owned, then a dense nebula is propably not a good idea, as you can't remove it afterwards afaik. It's usually pretty unattraktive, and it doesn#t really matter if it's an unkown sector or if its player owned - the benefit is 0. So it would be better if it looks nice right from the start.

The ideas are not bad (just need a little bit more refinement) and with 3 MD coders atm it propably better to have more then just one "workarea"

eldyranx3 · Post by **eldyranx3** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 16:14

Those are good points. If you could Killjaeden, go into more detail about the three MD coders work area suggestion? I'm not quite sure that I completely understand what you mean.

Killjaeden · Post by **Killjaeden** » Sat, 6. Oct 12, 16:25

What i meant is that if there is only one plot, but 3 coders they might get into the way of each other too often.
Ketraar just told me that on-the fly sector change is possible. But there should be something (in the plot) that causes the nebula to disappear

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AP Community Project [Released]