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Pro Gaming as a sport?
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Nanook
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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 01:09    Post subject: Re: Pro Gaming as a sport? Reply with quote Print

Samuel Creshal wrote:
Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Should gaming ever be considered a form of sport?


Why shouldn't it? Why allow Chess and other traditional games, and not computer games? Just because they involve a computer?


Chess is not a 'sport'. From the wikipedia:

Quote:
Sport (or, in the United States, sports) is all forms of competitive physical activity which,[1] through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical fitness and provide entertainment to participants.[2] Hundreds of sports exist, from those requiring only two participants, through to those with hundreds of simultaneous participants, either in teams or competing as individuals.


I don't think competitive physical activity is a part of chess, or computer games, for that matter (well, maybe the Wii and it's ilk, but even that's stretching it a bit).

So, no, professional computer gaming is not a 'sport', any more than poker, bridge, or any other such professional game can be considered a sport.


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 02:03    Post subject: Re: Pro Gaming as a sport? Reply with quote Print

Nanook wrote:


Quote:
Sport (or, in the United States, sports) is all forms of competitive physical activity which,[1] through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical fitness and provide entertainment to participants.[2] Hundreds of sports exist, from those requiring only two participants, through to those with hundreds of simultaneous participants, either in teams or competing as individuals.


I don't think competitive physical activity is a part of chess, or computer games, for that matter (well, maybe the Wii and it's ilk, but even that's stretching it a bit).

So, no, professional computer gaming is not a 'sport', any more than poker, bridge, or any other such professional game can be considered a sport.


I guess that's why it's recently started being called "E-sports". Electronic sports.
The electronic/digital/virtual version of a physical competition. It retains the '-sports' part due to it being competitive and rewarding.

So in relation to the above; a revised question:
Can "E-sports" be considered equal to [normal] sports?

Can a world champion at StarCraft be equal to the likes of a Javelin throw champion?
Will the general public ever see professional gamers with respect? Instead of "no-lifers".

Personally, I really hope so. I find a good SC2 tournament is more exciting than most Olympic sports. I feel professional gamers deserve more credit.


Re: the CoD tournament.
It was hosted around late August/September 2011 by Activision/Infinity Ward/Sledgehammer Games. It was called "Call of Duty XP" and was dubbed "The million dollar tournament". The funding for the event $1 million (Straight from Activision, I think). The winning team of 4 (OpTic Gaming, for those who care) each receive $50k each, IIRC.

$50,000. That's equal to a decent paying job. Yet there are still some who don't think professional gaming is a serious thing at all.
Annoys me really.
I'd love to see E-sports explode into the public eye of the next few years.


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 03:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

cj-spartacus wrote:
felter wrote:
brucewarren wrote:
formula 1


Believe it or not, Formula one is one of the most physically demanding sports around, if you are not fit you will never be able to do it and if you want to win, you have to be super fit.


Fitness is directly related to reaction time so if you're not fit you'd never be able to handle the speeds that are required to compete.


It's the G-forces that they are constantly fighting that they need to be fit for, a 90 minute race is like 90 minutes in a gym, doing non stop weight lifting.


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 03:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Anyone who seriously does not think that computer games can in fact be very demanding activites should try playing different games as they like sport vary greatly - something like a crappy rail arcade shooter will not tax people, but something like Rome total war.

If you seriously think that being in control of an army and facing opposing troops is not hard then I dare you to a online game - I have completed most single player campaigns (although I have never played an online match and I have given it seriosu thought hmm maybe I should)

Anyway I have watched videos of online matches and believe me you might want to read up on Sun Tzu - I have seen all sorts of tactical tricks.

(personally I think its ALOT more complex than chess)


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 07:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

As soon as it's no fun anymore doing it, it's a 'sport'.

Think back in time: you were young, you were playing soccer or football or whatever and later you joined a team to play it even more. Suddenly, it was no fun anymore, it shifted from "fun with friends in the afternoon" to "work in the afternoon and weekends with your team mates". There was no more laughter about stupid mistakes you did, there was scolding instead. Suddenly, the fun was gone.


Same is somewhat true for video games. Back in '99/'2k, playing UT99 just for fun, getting better and better, getting most frags by using the translocator only and the shock rifle, I wanted a bit more team play, real team play. So I joined a clan. Well, it was fun in the beginning, some league matches were done, but somehow, the fun became less and less, the gaming experience was changing. It started to become WORK. No free time fun activity anymore, but real hard work. You had to function, nothing else. Funny chats via RogerWilco during a match? No chance anymore, everything dead serious.


Same is true for MMORPGs, at first it's fun, but it becomes work after some time.


Same is true for every form of active entertainment. As soon as you go too far, the fun gets lost.



But as final conclusion: Pro-Gaming is sport. You study tactics, possibilities, train them, you have to react to a very wide variety of situations, it's stress. If you're not made for: forget about. Of course, it looks like there's only someone sitting around and having fun, but it's no fun anymore at this stage.


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 07:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Quote:
(personally I think its ALOT more complex than chess)


What does this mean? What do you mean by 'more complex'?

Playing chess at a high level (i.e. professional) would reveal how incredibly complex chess really is. The statement given in the quote is a typical superficial perspective.

As an example: the game of Go is arguably more difficult to master than chess, and yet it consists of only about 3 rules. The complexity lies in near infinite ways a game could evolve, and also in how any given position on the board can be analysed and evaluated.

To the OP though, no, computer games, boardgames and so on are not sports. They have a sporting element inasmuch as they are competitive, but in general the term 'sports' refers to actual physical activity.

In my most humblest of opinions, natch!

Icky


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 10:37    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

It is a skill applied where the best of the best compete for the title of the Best. I fail to see how this won't be a sport. Only certain games qualify for this, but I see no problem.

Maybe sport is not the best word, but it is competitive, requires skill, and is exciting.

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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 11:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I don't think e-sports can be considered equal to normal sports because there are no sponsors. What company is going to sponsor a guy that sits around and plays donkey kong all day? How would the sponsor get their money back and more from sponsoring a gamer? You need a sponsor in order to play/practice 40hrs a week. You can't hold down a full time job and play in your spare time. So, sponsors are vital. This only leaves the kids living at home with their parents flipping the bill for everything or very rich people who don't need to work who can compete in these games.

Also, if the competition was $1 million but only gave out $200k in prize money, what happened to the other $800k?

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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 11:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nividium wrote:
I don't think e-sports can be considered equal to normal sports because there are no sponsors. What company is going to sponsor a guy that sits around and plays donkey kong all day? How would the sponsor get their money back and more from sponsoring a gamer? You need a sponsor in order to play/practice 40hrs a week.


There are sponsors. A lot. Just take a look around, it's just not the sponsors you see anywhere else, it's more hardware manufacturers like NVidia, AMD, intel and so on.


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 11:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nividium wrote:
I don't think e-sports can be considered equal to normal sports because there are no sponsors.

Have you ever been to any computer exposition? There's a lot of companies in the gaming business, and most of them sponsor eSports.


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 12:27    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

There are quite a few full time gamers who get by simply from revenue from Streaming content via Twitch.tv and having channels on YouTube. Obviously this isn't an option for everyone as you better have a high level of skill and be able to hold a large audience.

To those saying: "it's just people sitting around all day playing games, how can that be a sport / worth watching", give it a chance. I only started watching Starcraft last year and while I totally suck at the game, I find its just as engrossing as watching proper sports, if not more so. Most people taking part are pretty down to earth, who are usually very active in the community supporting the games and tournaments. That's what makes it so special.

E-Sports is growing, with more venues, competitors and watchers. Nothing but a good thing in my book.


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 12:48    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I agree is Nanook, its not a sport its a game and thus should probably be kept clear of things like the Olympics. Chess too is not a Olympic event nor should it be.

Thats not to say there can't be more competitions, I actually think that a games event on the same scale and the Olympic sports event isn't a bad idea at all.

Computer gaming though?
I wouldn't watch it, it would be boring as hell, just like ALL youtube videos of "impressive" FPS performances, or Zerg rushes. . . . Duuuuuuuuuuuullllll.


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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 12, 16:52    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Xenon_Slayer wrote:
There are quite a few full time gamers who get by simply from revenue from Streaming content via Twitch.tv and having channels on YouTube. Obviously this isn't an option for everyone as you better have a high level of skill and be able to hold a large audience.

To those saying: "it's just people sitting around all day playing games, how can that be a sport / worth watching", give it a chance. I only started watching Starcraft last year and while I totally suck at the game, I find its just as engrossing as watching proper sports, if not more so. Most people taking part are pretty down to earth, who are usually very active in the community supporting the games and tournaments. That's what makes it so special.

E-Sports is growing, with more venues, competitors and watchers. Nothing but a good thing in my book.


I agree entirely with that.
I started watch StarCraft 2 at MLG about 2 years ago and only got into it as I was watching the Call of Duty tourney at the same time out of boredom.
Slowly I started watching more and more SC2. I was amazed at how a simple looking game "build an army and beat you opponent" could have such twists and turns that are put into practice by Pro's (such as MarineKingPrime, MVP, DRG) which makes the whole game so much more worthwhile to watch.

Bishop149 wrote:
Computer gaming though?
I wouldn't watch it, it would be boring as hell, just like ALL youtube videos of "impressive" FPS performances, or Zerg rushes. . . . Duuuuuuuuuuuullllll.

Yeah if you sit and watch a recorded match on YouTube between two mediocre players who play for fun battle it out, it's not gonna be anywhere near as exciting to watch as a livestreamed MLG final.

Nividium wrote:
I don't think e-sports can be considered equal to normal sports because there are no sponsors.

Sorry to say you are massively wrong there.
To name a few:
Razer, Gunnar Optiks, Astro, Sony (Playstation/Ericsson), Intel...
Just about every pro gamer is sponsored.
Even most gaming YouTubers are sponsored. You may of heard of TheSyndicateProject or zzirGrizz who are Call of Duty players with huge fanbases.
Then there are livestreamers such as Day[9].
It's a clear advantage if a business can get it's name in with people who have fanbases in the several hundreds of thousands. Better sales.


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PostPosted: Wed, 8. Aug 12, 21:22    Post subject: Re: Pro Gaming as a sport? Reply with quote Print

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
...What are Off-Topic's views on Professional Gaming?


It already is a professional sport. There are people that play video games for money and large commercial concerns host their competitions. So, it's a paid professional sport. In some genres, there are even Teams.

I think it should be a professional sport, if it has the people interested in paying money for such a thing. I've watched a few matches in some genres and used to like watching a program on G4TV that hosted match-ups between Teams. So, it can be entertaining.

Back when I was competing in Wow, running the PVP ladders (pre-nerf) it was harder than "professional." We put in hour after hour of play, ran grueling sessions, played the ladders, jockeyed for good promotion slots, made agreements with competitors in order to stop people from cheating the system, self-regulated our own server's top teams, etc.. And, we paid to do all of this. If someone had been paying us, it would have been nice. Smile

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