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If the player can not drive a battleship, how to compensate it? |
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bbgun77
Joined: 18 Nov 2008 Posts: 75 on topic Location: china

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Posted: Sat, 7. Apr 12, 06:59 Post subject: If the player can not drive a battleship, how to compensate it? |
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If me not a AI to pilot a capital ship,I can dodge incoming PPC instead of take it by shield.I can face wings use my flak most effect.
And now it has been negatived.
So I am thinking how to compensate for it、
Before in X3, by attacking a position to lead the whole ship was destroyed I think it is unreasonable.becouse the ship is a "whole hull",the attack process is actually a subtraction,but in reality you only get a hole.
I suggest that only heavy weapons to fight against the hull, lead to the destruction,light weapons can disable it by destroying weaknesses.Marines can stop it repair(less) and occupation of the ship(more).
In addition, the ship consists by several modules, a module is destroyed and will not affect the other modules, for example, you destroy the bow, but can not destroy the engine of the stern, you continued to attack the bow just doingexercise in futility - it has a block of scrap metal.
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Frymaster-UK-
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
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Posted: Sat, 7. Apr 12, 14:34 Post subject: Re: If the player can not drive a battleship, how to compensate it? |
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| bbgun77 wrote: |
| If me not a AI to pilot a capital ship,I can dodge incoming PPC instead of take it by shield.I can face wings use my flak most effect. |
which I think is the main reason you can't directly pilot a cap ship any more - they don't want them to be used as oversized fighters
what I'm hoping for is a fairly rich tactical interface for the issuing of orders to capships, so you can tell them you want to be side on for a port (or starboard) broadside, or want to directly face the enemy to minimise your profile, or whatever, especially one that allows you to focus the fire from many capships onto a single target.
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Virtualaughing
Joined: 14 Jun 2008 Posts: 1114 on topic

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Posted: Sat, 7. Apr 12, 16:03 Post subject: |
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This is all depends of how fast we can change between our ship interface and all the remote controled BSs interface. If it will be with some fancy transfer effect then older PCs may be laggy ;p
Be kind and let us order USEFULL commands which can avoid weaponfire. If all will be between shields and weapons then that is pure math and powerplay instead of tactics.
_________________ X games with it's forum is good way to learning english from and having fun....
I want to own, command, pilot everything that NPCs can do. I hate to be told what to do and what not to
I think that egosoft has already developed our doom because Xenon AI will reaches the stars  |
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SinisterDeath
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
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Posted: Sat, 7. Apr 12, 16:23 Post subject: |
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I still say we need longer ranged weaponry then we currently do, it may not be as accurate, but with as powerful as it 'could' be, and knowing your 'enemy' would have access to it to, would put combat at further range than is currently applied.
Alot of people think of space combat as naval warfare. Not only that, they think of it like 1500s naval warfare, and forget taht the modern 'warship' has a range upwards of 100 miles. <_<
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Spero
Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 1268 on topic

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Posted: Sat, 7. Apr 12, 16:30 Post subject: |
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| SinisterDeath wrote: |
| I still say we need longer ranged weaponry then we currently do, it may not be as accurate, but with as powerful as it 'could' be, and knowing your 'enemy' would have access to it to, would put combat at further range than is currently applied. |
Having longer ranged weapons is analogous to making the game models smaller; giving ships less screen time and generally filling more of the screen with empty space. Not a good trade-off in my opinion.
| SinisterDeath wrote: |
| Alot of people think of space combat as naval warfare. Not only that, they think of it like 1500s naval warfare, and forget taht the modern 'warship' has a range upwards of 100 miles. <_< |
You assume that would actually be fun to play.
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dougeye
Joined: 07 Mar 2009 Posts: 1715 on topic

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Posted: Sat, 7. Apr 12, 18:50 Post subject: |
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i would like to see a mini rts interface for large fleet battles (with cap ships) you can open the map console, click point order and shoot etc quickly in the map view and then exit that view to view the battle in real time. a bit like supcom etc were you cchange on the fly from player view to battle overview. this would allow for many advanced tactics imo and would be superior to a convo orders wheel etc.
_________________ ANTEC 1200 V3 - (Modified with gentle typhoon fans) - INTEL i7 2700k 4.7ghz (OC) - ROG Maximus 4 Extreme MOBO - 2x NVIDIA GTX 580 SLI - 16gb Corsair Vengeance 1600mhz ddr3 ram - 120 gb OCZ Vertex 3 SATA 3 6gb (speed) SSD - 600gb WD Velociraptor HDD - Corsair 1000w PSU - ALC Vantage CPU liquid cooler (modified with gentle typhoon fans) + 2gb storage and super fast silent optical drives - BEAST!!!!!  |
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Général Grievous

Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 2288 on topic Location: Vaisseau mère Terrien

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Posted: Sat, 7. Apr 12, 20:59 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I would like to see a mini rts interface for large fleet battles |
Totaly agree with that.
Is the best way to manage several ships with efficiency during a battle
_________________ Il vaut mieux mobiliser son intelligence sur des conneries plutot que de mobiliser sa connerie sur des choses intelligentes... |
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BGrey
Joined: 09 Jan 2011
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Posted: Sat, 7. Apr 12, 23:02 Post subject: |
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What I felt the OP was kind of getting at was some sort of an armor system. I hate pure hp/damage based systems. If the real world worked like the game you could blow up a tank with a pellet gun if you shot it enough. An armor rating of some sort where small weapons were simply unable to damage heavier ships armor would make the game much more dynamic and actually give a real role for missiles on the fighter sized ships.
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bbgun77
Joined: 18 Nov 2008 Posts: 75 on topic Location: china

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Posted: Sun, 8. Apr 12, 08:47 Post subject: |
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ye, A rts interface is almost I want.
Did u play a new game demo "starfarer"?Is a good answer for it with its fleet command interface.
U can give a tactical instructions on the map by a beacon,these AI will be in accordance with the priority to arrange the implementation of, simple and effective.
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Freeman_79

Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 197 on topic Location: Sweden - Stockholm

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Posted: Sun, 8. Apr 12, 13:55 Post subject: |
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Even if you could fly a capital ship in X-Rebirth you can forget about dodging incoming fire, like PPC etc.
Bernd already said the capital ships have a whole new idea behind it and will be extremely large and very slow.
You cant fly capitals like fighters anymore.
Now capital ships probably have to tank incoming fire
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KongRudi
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 156 on topic

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Posted: Mon, 9. Apr 12, 05:20 Post subject: |
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I assume you can fit alot more defensive systems on bigger ships aswell.
i.e. If you have a small capital, you can't have as many defensive systems as if you have a bigger capital.
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mrscribbler
 
Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 164 on topic

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Posted: Mon, 9. Apr 12, 12:47 Post subject: |
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| Freeman_79 wrote: |
Even if you could fly a capital ship in X-Rebirth you can forget about dodging incoming fire, like PPC etc.
Bernd already said the capital ships have a whole new idea behind it and will be extremely large and very slow.
You cant fly capitals like fighters anymore.
Now capital ships probably have to tank incoming fire |
I've got no problem with capitals having to take incoming fire. My only concern is that they are still vulnerable to non-capital weapons (I'm hoping for an armor system as was described up-thread). Hopefully the fact that there are Torpedo Drones means that hurting a capital ship will be far from straighforward.
Something to remember -- in most of the world, Capital Ships were historically jacks-of-all-trades. They were designed to play as many roles as financially possible, instead of the more limited roles the USN tends to limit it's Carrier Flotilla units to. In-game, I'd like that to translate to Capital Ships being able to swat any typical force of fighters out of the sky. Let them be powerful objects of fear for the player without their own Capital Ship or tricky attack strategy.
| KongRudi wrote: |
I assume you can fit alot more defensive systems on bigger ships aswell.
i.e. If you have a small capital, you can't have as many defensive systems as if you have a bigger capital. |
It depends how the square-cubed law is applied in shield generation. A ship that's 2x the length (with everything else being equal) of another will have 4x the area to cover but 8x the volume for power and defense systems. So it should be 8x as powerful if the shield generators don't have to care about the area they're covering, but only twice if they do (which seems to be inconsistently* the case in X3). Where EGOSOFT tends to drop the ball is in volume as related to armor. Armor values should go up based on volume. A Boron M2 may have different materials than an Argon one, but a Boron M2 has twice the length and therefore 8x the volume. That should count for something (aside from being easier to hit).
* I understand that the size of a ship in X3 affects its performance less than the class, and what affects it the most is balancing and artistic license.
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Chris0132
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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Posted: Mon, 9. Apr 12, 16:26 Post subject: |
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In the real world though, capital ships were highly vulnerable to fighter attack, that's why they stopped making them.
If fighters can't damage large objects, then the only point in having them is to destroy other fighters, which you don't need to do because by simply not fielding any fighters, you can render yourself immune to them.
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Freeman_79

Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 197 on topic Location: Sweden - Stockholm

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Posted: Mon, 9. Apr 12, 17:35 Post subject: |
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| Chris0132 wrote: |
In the real world though, capital ships were highly vulnerable to fighter attack, that's why they stopped making them.
If fighters can't damage large objects, then the only point in having them is to destroy other fighters, which you don't need to do because by simply not fielding any fighters, you can render yourself immune to them. |
Well, I guess you're right when you put it like that.
But since Bernd said you could be able to sabotage specific objects on a station to stop its manufacturing, instead of completely destroying it, it would be nice if capital ships had some kind of shield generators you need to take out before the initial assault.
With the generators intact, fighters wont penetrate the shield.
Last edited by Freeman_79 on Mon, 9. Apr 12, 17:37; edited 1 time in total |
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Spero
Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 1268 on topic

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Posted: Mon, 9. Apr 12, 17:36 Post subject: |
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| mrscribbler wrote: |
| It depends how the square-cubed law is applied in shield generation. A ship that's 2x the length (with everything else being equal) of another will have 4x the area to cover but 8x the volume for power and defense systems. So it should be 8x as powerful if the shield generators don't have to care about the area they're covering, but only twice if they do (which seems to be inconsistently* the case in X3). |
I'd assume the shield force is focused where it's needed, rather than persistently and uniformly generated over the whole ship. That would be insanely inefficient as you describe.
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