|
|
 |
View previous topic :: View next topic |
|
|
|
|
|
Author |
Message |
|
|
|
|
|
Shimrod
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 579 on topic
Location: UK
 |
 Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 01:08 Post subject: |
   |
|
| Quote: |
| while the real problem is that Steam doesn't offer anything worthwhile to you but it does to a whole lot of other people. |
That begs a hamburger pickle analogy. At least we can take them out if we don't want them. They'd sell a lot less burgers if they welded in the pickles, as in the final analysis while some people will grow to like them, not everyone can stomach them.
Pickle fans might argue that not having to employ the guys that put the pickles in outweighs the lost custom, and it might even lower the costs for the broader majority of pickle lovers.
Fortunately if they adopt Pickle Rights Management, there are plenty other places to eat for those who were excluded. I guess that's where the analogy fails. There is no alternative to Steam, it's simply game over.
_________________
My scripts: Beacon Jump, Custom Start, OK Traders, Smart Turrets.
Last edited by Shimrod on Sat, 24. Mar 12, 01:39; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
Ravna
  
Joined: 27 May 2010
Location: /dev/null
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 01:09 Post subject: |
|
|
I don't care about optional stuff either, but at least they give me the essentials - The Game.
Reasonable claim ? That's what you think.
I recently downloaded a Sim and wanted to take a closer look at the models.
But there weren't any.
No aircraft, no missions, no scripts, no libraries.
All there was was the GUI and the landscape files.
Everything else is downloaded into a temporary directory.
. . and when you quit, it's all gone again.
The files are signed and only last one session, copying them is pointless.
Now that's DRM for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jumee
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 2145 on topic
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 01:21 Post subject: |
|
|
| Ravna wrote: |
I don't care about optional stuff either, but at least they give me the essentials - The Game.
Reasonable claim ? That's what you think.
I recently downloaded a Sim and wanted to take a closer look at the models.
But there weren't any.
No aircraft, no missions, no scripts, no libraries.
All there was was the GUI and the landscape files.
Everything else is downloaded into a temporary directory.
. . and when you quit, it's all gone again.
The files are signed and only last one session, copying them is pointless.
Now that's DRM for you. |
are you sure it is not a bug??? O_O O_O that is the most retarded DRM I have heard of, have you tried contacting the tech support? who is the developer of that? Ubisoft? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
NUKLEAR-SLUG
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 2265 on topic
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 01:22 Post subject: |
|
|
| fox jumps wrote: |
| Ahh, Johnny Gamer. Johnny gamer being the sole reason companies like Ego have a product to sell at all. At what point does Johnny Gamer benefit in this whole steam process? I mean it is granted that JG is restricted on how the steam product is installed, accessed and updated, but just what are the actual benefits to JG specifically? |
Where did you get this funny idea that Egosoft should be running their business for your betterment? Egosoft is a business, not a charity, they make decisions that will be of benefit to them, not to you. If they've done their research and come to the conclusion that using a particular product and/or service, in this instance Steam, will recoup financial benefits for their company then they are going to go ahead and do exactly that. If that upsets a few diehards then so be it.
Case in point the simplification or 'dumbing down', depending how you care to look at it, of Rebirth with the apparent move from a fly anything model to a fixed playership model to try and broaden it's market appeal. It's a move guaranteed to annoy some subset of the community and has done exactly that. Inevitably some players will drop the series because they don't like the changes. Big deal, if Egosoft have made the right choice the few that leave will be overshadowed by the large number of new players to the franchise. Net gain.
Johnny Gamer is not important. He is not a shareholder. He does not directly contribute to the day to day operation of the company. He is not even a customer for Rebirth. At best he may be a potential customer who may or may not, but certainly can't be relied on, contribute to the company's success. All of which makes him no more important and his viewpoint no more valid than someone who has never even heard of the X series yet.
_________________
Squiddy McSquids possibly short life - Compiled courtesy of Toastie
Zen and the Art of Running away - Compiled courtesy of Yoink
Wanton Use of Nukes And the Path to Galactic Conquest - Compiled courtesy of ZypherG and _Zap_ and Idleking
Available Here.. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
fox jumps
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 01:43 Post subject: |
|
|
| fox jumps wrote: |
| Ahh, Johnny Gamer. Johnny gamer being the sole reason companies like Ego have a product to sell at all. At what point does Johnny Gamer benefit in this whole steam process? I mean it is granted that JG is restricted on how the steam product is installed, accessed and updated, but just what are the actual benefits to JG specifically? |
| Slashman wrote: |
| The funny thing is that the benefits of Steam are immediately dismissed as being inconsequential by the people who are against it. So any benefit I could give you about using Steam would immediately be labelled as a non-benefit. |
Here is the real funny thing. How many games did you say you had locked to a steam account? It may well suit you, but you still cannot list one clear benefit to a user that adopts a steam account binding system.
Not one.
Your arguments all stem from how great a deal it is for the dev/publisher and your own circumstance.
| Slashman wrote: |
It always comes down to 'Steam doesn't offer anything worthwhile', while the real problem is that Steam doesn't offer anything worthwhile to you but it does to a whole lot of other people.
The question then becomes: Should Egosoft reverse its business decision because of you? I'm sure we all know what you'd like the answer to that question to be, but reality tends to work a bit differently, sometimes, than we'd like it to. |
Egosoft have made their position quite clear. They did so some time ago.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
TEKing66
Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 581 on topic
Location: Spires of Elusion
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 01:46 Post subject: |
|
|
Exactly what I have been saying all along, the individual does not matter any longer. The money matters, nothing else.
We as customers are just exactly, a dollar symbol, and one or two here and there doesn't matter. It's the big stack that matters, and at the moment the biggest stack just happens to be Steam.
30% of a companies customer base saying they will shy away is nothing these days. Some will cave, some won't, in the end it doesn't really matter.
Think about it this way. If a rock the size of mount Everest was headed this way. It smacks straight into the planet and makes the whole planet a giant toasted bit of stone. Who weeps for the human race?
Now, who weeps for those who can't use or desire not to use Steam?
Exactly the same answer both time isn't it..........No One!
_________________
My mods for X3TC & X3AP
Been with the X-series from the beginning. If it happens in the X_Universe I've been there done that several times over. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
fox jumps
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 02:01 Post subject: |
|
|
| fox jumps wrote: |
| Ahh, Johnny Gamer. Johnny gamer being the sole reason companies like Ego have a product to sell at all. At what point does Johnny Gamer benefit in this whole steam process? I mean it is granted that JG is restricted on how the steam product is installed, accessed and updated, but just what are the actual benefits to JG specifically? |
| NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote: |
| Where did you get this funny idea that Egosoft should be running their business for your betterment? Egosoft is a business, not a charity, they make decisions that will be of benefit to them, not to you. If they've done their research and come to the conclusion that using a particular product and/or service, in this instance Steam, will recoup financial benefits for their company then they are going to go ahead and do exactly that. If that upsets a few diehards then so be it. |
If I had that notion that Ego was a charity, I would have asked them to supply my games for free.
| NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote: |
| Case in point the simplification or 'dumbing down', depending how you care to look at it, of Rebirth with the apparent move from a fly anything model to a fixed playership model to try and broaden it's market appeal. It's a move guaranteed to annoy some subset of the community and has done exactly that. Inevitably some players will drop the series because they don't like the changes. Big deal, if Egosoft have made the right choice the few that leave will be overshadowed by the large number of new players to the franchise. Net gain. |
Case not in point, off topic at best
| NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote: |
| Johnny Gamer is not important. He is not a shareholder. He does not directly contribute to the day to day operation of the company. He is not even a customer for Rebirth. At best he may be a potential customer who may or may not, but certainly can't be relied on, contribute to the company's success. All of which makes him no more important and his viewpoint no more valid than someone who has never even heard of the X series yet. |
Do I need to own shares to buy the game now?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Slashman
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1278 on topic
Location: Barbados
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 02:06 Post subject: |
|
|
| quase wrote: |
More advantages? |
You just made my point for me. I don't need to list any more. My point is that you not liking the advantages or features that Steam has to offer is irrelevant when a lot more people than you do.
Oh and as to the friend list. My very real best friend is on my Steam friend list. Often we'll say hi to each other when we notice what game the other is playing and sometimes we'll jump into a multiplayer game together using that feature. Yes, I still call him, hang out with him etc. but because we both like games and have a lot of the same tastes in games, we use the Steam friend list.
I also have a few more folks that are on my friend list, some of whom I used to go to LAN parties with, but no longer live in the country or are too busy with work/life. Its actually cool to see what games they are playing and possibly find a game that is cool that I may have overlooked(because I don't go to every developer's website or always see new game news etc.)
The point is that its not a useless feature for a lot of people. I don't use it every day, but so what? The same for community groups. Whether you play single player games or not, or you're a recluse or not is not what is relevant. If these are features that a large number of people find compelling...then its natural for developers to want to integrate them into their games. It's unlikely that they'd want to go to the trouble of making their games so that one version has these features and another doesn't.
Most of the features that Steam has are absent or poorly implemented in the competing digital distro companies. I don't think it's an accident that more people end up using and sticking with Steam.
| Quote: |
| As far as the developer/ publisher has to care for MY needs, I have to say that with the current success of kickstarter projects, there should be a decent public worth developing for. Maybe David Braben could make a kickstarter for a new Elite title, so I could give him maybe 500 $ to start the development. This would certainly be the ultimate competitor and another choice for me if Deep Silver does not care for my money on another X game. |
If that happens I'll just enjoy them both. No point in limiting myself to only one space sim.
Oh and you'd best be careful what you wish for...I think a lot of those kickstarters may just end up as Steam-only releases initially.
_________________
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
quase
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 02:30 Post subject: |
|
|
As I said, I think nobody would complain if one version would have the Steam features and a Steam-free version would not have them. People who do not want to use Steam, naturally will not care for its exclusive features.
Kickstarter projects will most certainly always offer a DRM/ Steam free version as long as you pay for it. Why hurt the supporters by forcing them into some kind of DRM system? They would in my opinion lose many supporters if they would say from the beginning that a game requires Steam or any other kind of accound binding DRM software. Unlike classically publisher financed projects, kickstarter projects highly depend on the supporters from the start. That should be clear.
Tim Schafers new adventure project you got DRM-free by supporting the game with only 15 $, including a Steam key as well and Wastelands 2 was also DRM-free for only 15 $. I just hope this whole business gets to a good end because the risk is high with such a prefinanced project and there may be no additional funding if the money is not enough.
I would be happy to support X games in the future, but the conditions are not right for me as long as Steam is involved or as long as Egosoft does not become an independent developer. A new Elite/ Frontier would make me even more happy though. One of the best space sims ever made.
_________________
Someday, somewhere, today's empires are tomorrow's ashes.
Last edited by quase on Sat, 24. Mar 12, 02:32; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
strude
Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 1113 on topic
Location: Adelaide, Australia
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 02:31 Post subject: |
|
|
| quase wrote: |
| As I said, I think nobody would complain if one version would have the Steam features and a Steam-free version would not have them. People who do not want to use Steam, naturally will not care for its exclusive features. |
Egosoft might.
_________________
Gaming PC: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R | 2.4GHz Q6600 @3.0GHz | 8Gb 800 DDR2 | Gigabyte GTS450 1Gb | On-board sound | Window 7 64bit |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rednoahl
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 863 on topic
Location: Huddersfield. U.K.
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 02:36 Post subject: |
|
|
| NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote: |
| Johnny Gamer is not important. He is not a shareholder. He does not directly contribute to the day to day operation of the company. He is not even a customer for Rebirth. At best he may be a potential customer who may or may not, but certainly can't be relied on, contribute to the company's success. All of which makes him no more important and his viewpoint no more valid than someone who has never even heard of the X series yet. |
Johnny Gamer not important? Really? If that was true publishers wouldn't spend millions upon millions in marketing to Johnny Gamer would they?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jumee
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 2145 on topic
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 02:59 Post subject: |
|
|
| Rednoahl wrote: |
| NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote: |
| Johnny Gamer is not important. He is not a shareholder. He does not directly contribute to the day to day operation of the company. He is not even a customer for Rebirth. At best he may be a potential customer who may or may not, but certainly can't be relied on, contribute to the company's success. All of which makes him no more important and his viewpoint no more valid than someone who has never even heard of the X series yet. |
Johnny Gamer not important? Really? If that was true publishers wouldn't spend millions upon millions in marketing to Johnny Gamer would they? |
I think the two of you have different concept of Johnny  N-S means that loosing a few die-hards isnt a problem so his Johnny is a minority opposing Steam, the Johnny you are talking about (the one that gets millions spent on him) is a broad audience which at least at the moment seems to be mostly pleased by Steam
Regarding choice I personally would not mind even if there was a dozen of different versions, but Egosoft probably will
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Chris0132
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 03:36 Post subject: |
|
|
Generally 'Johnny Adjective' is used to describe the average member of a demographic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
TEKing66
Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 581 on topic
Location: Spires of Elusion
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 03:49 Post subject: |
|
|
Case in point "Johnny anti-Steam", this one doesn't matter, exists only to clog up forum threads and harass the peacefull pro-Steam crowd. Should at all costs be avoided, and unlike most critters absolutely should not be fed.
Any game that has went Steam only has these posts, and very similar debates. In the end, it is all the same. Once a CEO type makes a decision they have to stick with it. It's not very leader like to back-track on a decision, good or bad.
Sadly, I suspect we will NEVER see a Steam free version of Rebirth. 
_________________
My mods for X3TC & X3AP
Been with the X-series from the beginning. If it happens in the X_Universe I've been there done that several times over. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jumee
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 2145 on topic
|
| Posted: Sat, 24. Mar 12, 03:59 Post subject: |
|
|
| TEKing66 wrote: |
| Sadly, I suspect we will NEVER see a Steam free version of Rebirth. |
they might release nosteam.exe file eventually
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Search