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Morkonan
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1383 on topic
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 Posted: Sat, 10. Mar 12, 01:23 Post subject: |
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| Bishop149 wrote: |
...I actually think that what you've stated above (the summing up of the "American Dream") is single biggest, cleverest lie ever told, and the fact that it underpins a lot of American culture is in no small part responsible for many of the problems and inequalities present in American society.
Life is NOT fair.
Overall I think you're happier accepting and trying to work within that fact than struggling against it... |
Of course, life is not fair. I wasn't trying to imply that it was. But, just because life is not fair doesn't mean that you must stop trying to "be all that you can be." (My apologies to the US Army for borrowing their recruiting slogan.)
Many of life's unfair problems can be overcome. Doing so won't always be easy and there's no guarantees you won't encounter other problems along the way.
If you are saying you must be realistic, then I certainly agree with that. It is highly likely I can't be a male fashion model. I'm just too damn manly looking..  But, I also don't want to be a male fashion model. However, if for some crazy reason I did, I bet you I could do it. I might not make the cover of GQ or walk down a runway, but I might get to model clothes in a Walmart sales circular. Sometimes, life is about degrees and being realistic means you do accept that while you can achieve things that you want, you may have to accept a does of reality with it. I certainly agree with that.
(BTW, there are other ways to achieve things and many include getting given them by your station in life... That doesn't falsify my assertion.)
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| Edit: I expect that post will get right under the skin of many Americans. I do not mean it personally, I absolutely believe that the American dream SHOULD be true, however I also believe that it runs directly contrary to basic human nature of "Me and Mine, screw anyone else". |
I take no offense. But, I do think you're a bit too cynical in your appraisal of the value of hard work, dedication and persistence. I think, perhaps, what I wrote should be modified a bit, though. It should read "smart hard work, dedication and persistence." Obviously, I'm not going to become an astronaut by taking Art classes focused on pottery... Unless I become a materials sciences guy and get really, really, really, lucky.
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Incubi
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 1851 on topic
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| Posted: Sat, 10. Mar 12, 02:45 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Edit: I expect that post will get right under the skin of many Americans. I do not mean it personally, I absolutely believe that the American dream SHOULD be true, however I also believe that it runs directly contrary to basic human nature of "Me and Mine, screw anyone else". |
While what the American dream is is largely debated, I think I am one of the many that think that whatever it is, it is dead. It has been twisted and distorted so much by the anti socialist ( can I add paranoid greedy freak without offending anyone  ), that the Amrican Dream resembles dawrinism more so than any right or priviledge.
And I am tired of being on the bottum of the food chain! Thus why I started this thread...
For the person surprised this kind of thread can be made fairly safely here on this forum. This forum is generaly more intelligent and older than most game forums. There is also a large diversity of professions here. I believe we even have an astro physicist lurking somewher on these pages! So while I was carefull with the detail I revealed, I had no fear at all about the content. In fact this is a good community to discuss careers and education with... even the snobs mean well I am probably among the most Ill behaved member come to think of it....... well that hasn't been banned anyway! I have 1 warning that is about 5 years old....  I think....
_________________
"And then Satan said, "Put the alphabet in math..."" little white lion... I think
Last edited by Incubi on Sat, 10. Mar 12, 04:48; edited 1 time in total |
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Sylthos
Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 169 on topic
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| Posted: Sat, 10. Mar 12, 03:29 Post subject: |
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| Incubi wrote: |
| I am tired of being on the bottum of the food chain! |
Been there, totally sucks. Unlike you I had the option to first leave my hometown, and then eventually my country. I myself never gave much tought to the "American Dream", just sounds like wishful thinking. Maybe it's my non-American origins that makes me think that? The only thinking that has ever propelled me foward was how I could do my job and my schoolwork more efficently and give me more time to do something else.
I'm also a firm believer in second chances. Every time I look back on my life I still wonder how I got here. My consulars have said the same thing. For a time I walked a very dark road, chance had led me off that road onto better things. You have never truly lost until you give up.
| Incubi wrote: |
| For the person surprised this kind of thread can be made fairly safely here on this forum. This forum is generaly more intelligent and older than most game forums. There is also a large diversity of professions here. I believe we even have an astro physicist lurking somewher on these pages! |
That was me.
Funny enough, I believe that I one of the younger ones on here. Oh and an astro physicist? I glad to know that another one that has taken to learning the sciences still plays video games. The way people go on about my studies, you would think that I was no longer allowed to have fun.
Everywhere has there share of ill-mannered users. This place has far fewer than I had originally imagined. Misunderstandings still seem to run rampant though.
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"That's not a bear, man. That's a Bear-man." Buddy of mine after showing him my profile picture. |
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cj-spartacus
  
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 1088 on topic
Location: Glasgow - Scotland
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| Posted: Sat, 10. Mar 12, 03:49 Post subject: |
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If you can make websites then why not get onto whatever the American version of Business Gateway might be and they will help you to find jobs making or updating web pages. This might alleviate the immediate financial issues and give you the break you need to shoot for your real goals. Just an idea I had when I read your "life" sitemap post.
Whatever you end up doing I wish you the best of luck.
_________________
"Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken." - Tyler Durden |
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Morkonan
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1383 on topic
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| Posted: Sat, 10. Mar 12, 03:59 Post subject: |
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| Incubi wrote: |
| .. While what the American dream is is largely debated, I think I am one of the many that thinkthat whatever it is, it is dead. It has been twisted and distorted so much by the anti socialist ( can I add paranoid greedy freak without offenduing anyone ), that the Amrican Dream resembles dawrinism more so than any right or priviledge... |
The "American Dream" is largely that your success is a direct measurement of your ability and your application of that ability and not on systemic or external factors that work against you.
That's the sanitized version, though. In the real world, there are always going to be environmental factors outside of your control.
But, for the most part, the American Dream still holds true.
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IcarusJones
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 117 on topic
Location: Hard to say...it's dark in here...
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| Posted: Sat, 10. Mar 12, 05:09 Post subject: |
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| But there has been also the American dream, that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for every man, with opportunity for each according to his ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position. |
That was historian James Adams from his book Epic of America (1931)
Laudable sentiments one and all. However, there is a huge gulf between a man whose innate abilities only carry him as far as (say) a short order chef, and the status that is sold so hard through advertising, movies, the music industry and so on. The 'American Dream' is not achievable under these conditions because nobody wants to believe that their 'potential' is orders of magnitude lower than anyone else's.
There is also the desire to be distinct from one's fellows. House in the 'burbs, wife, 2.4 kids, 2 cars in the garage...oh, I would be happy with that you might say, but...people with that lifestyle are often plagued by the nagging need to rise a little above their fellow 'burbanites. This is the country that gave us 'Keeping up with the Joneses' after all!
As Henry David Thoreau put it:
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| Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. |
Icky
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"To know is to die" - DHL |
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