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CBJ
EGOSOFT
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 32436 on topic
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 Posted: Fri, 13. Jan 12, 02:58 Post subject: |
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This seems like as good a time as any for me to post the latest information about our plans for X3AP. 
As you are probably already aware, two updates for X3AP are in the works.
The first update, the 1.1 patch, is due very soon now, and will fix various bugs and performance issues that people have been reporting. This includes, but is not limited to, the slow-down that occurs after playing a lot of missions or travelling a lot through the galaxy. At the same time we will also be releasing a 3.2 patch for X3TC which includes some of the bug-fixes and performance improvements from X3AP.
The second update to X3AP, version 2.0, will come a few weeks later and will introduce some new content. Some of you will also be interested in the following statement about 2.0:
| Egosoft wrote: |
For version 2.0 of X3:Albion Prelude, Egosoft is releasing a "no-Steam" executable to registered owners of the game through our online community. Those customers who do not want to have Steam running permanently can simply replace the executable and start the game without the Steam service even being installed.
Because this will remove all additional Steam services, such as the automatic updates and ingame community features, we do not encourage this for everyone. For us, as a small developer, the Steam community is much more than just a distribution platform or protection system; Steam reduces installation and support issues significantly, and adds many online community features for those players who want to enjoy playing an offline game together with a group of like-minded fans.
We do understand that some customers do not want to keep the Steam service permanently installed on their machine. The release of this "no-Steam" executable is, however, a one-time only service and we can not guarantee that this version will be kept up to date in the future.
Customers using this executable will still have to activate the game via Steam once, but can later download the no-Steam exe from our website. To access the executable it will be necessary to register your copy of the game in the Egosoft online community too. |
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Slashman
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1317 on topic
Location: Barbados
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| Posted: Fri, 13. Jan 12, 03:02 Post subject: |
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| Sblade wrote: |
| Slashman wrote: |
| NeverSnake wrote: |
Now I'm off to check how long it was between release and DRM removal for X3R and X3TC, I guess it'll be after rebirth's release but better late than never Very Happy.
EDIT: X2, X3:R and X3:TC have all had DRM removed after about a year, that'll be a nice christmas present for next year then. |
I wouldn't get my hopes up for that.
Steamworks integration is the one form of DRM I have never seen patched out. It doesn't limit installs or do disc checks unlike Tages or Securom.
I also presume that the pricing model is more favorable to the publisher because Steam itself is the integrated storefront and update platform for the game.
Just saying... |
You have never seen that and you do assume for that reason that can´t be done?
As far as I know the executables are coded first and wrapped after being coded, so avoiding the DRM is easy.
Be sure that if ES wants to patch any game without DRM, it can be done. |
I'm in no way saying it cannot be done. I'm just saying the likelihood of it being done to a Steamworks game is small. I've personally never seen it happen.
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Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
  
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 10528 on topic
Location: Stonehenge, UK
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| Posted: Fri, 13. Jan 12, 15:56 Post subject: |
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... and then it was announced that it would!
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Slashman
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1317 on topic
Location: Barbados
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| Posted: Fri, 13. Jan 12, 16:26 Post subject: |
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| Alan Phipps wrote: |
| ... and then it was announced that it would! |
Excuse my ignorance...but is AP an actual Steamworks game?
I haven't seen it tagged on the Steam store page that it is one. So this would constitute removing the Steam component from a standard Steam game.
If I'm wrong...feel free to correct me here.
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Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 10528 on topic
Location: Stonehenge, UK
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| Posted: Fri, 13. Jan 12, 16:45 Post subject: |
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@ Slashman: A good point and well made, but then some despaired of seeing a non-Steam X3AP - which is exactly what your quoted debate starting with NeverSnake above was about given the title of this thread! I guess that you first implied that X3AP was Steamworks in your own requoted reply.
If we have strayed into XR territory then that is not for here.
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Slashman
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1317 on topic
Location: Barbados
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| Posted: Fri, 13. Jan 12, 19:51 Post subject: |
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| Alan Phipps wrote: |
@ Slashman: A good point and well made, but then some despaired of seeing a non-Steam X3AP - which is exactly what your quoted debate starting with NeverSnake above was about given the title of this thread! I guess that you first implied that X3AP was Steamworks in your own requoted reply.
If we have strayed into XR territory then that is not for here. |
You might actually be right. I was, in fact, more thinking of Rebirth than AP.
I guess my train of thought was that since AP is offered to people with the standard Superbox and standard TC...then making it Steamworks would be an odd move. I didn't say it though, so for all the non-telepaths on the thread I muddled it.
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NeverSnake
Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 4948 on topic
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| Posted: Fri, 13. Jan 12, 21:50 Post subject: |
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| Egosoft wrote: |
| We do understand that some customers do not want to keep the Steam service permanently installed on their machine. The release of this "no-Steam" executable is, however, a one-time only service and we can not guarantee that this version will be kept up to date in the future. |
It's a nice gesture but it doesn't really help much. I'm avoiding steam because, for me, the steam client doesn't work very well so having an alternate executable that's inferior in a different way (it may not be updated or may be slow to be updated) is just a choice between two evils rather than something I can enthusiastically buy.
The statement about not wanting the steam service permanently installed is a little odd, I don't think I've ever seen anyone object to having steam installed, most objections are either to Steam's business practices/reliability/monopoly etc. or to the steam client and it's restrictive options rather than any concern over it being installed like there was with starforce and it's potential rootkit access.
Would it be possible for Egosoft to do what Bethesda did with the steam version of Fallout 3? Let steam handle the updating and whatnot but allow the executable to be launched steam-free on it's own as well as with steam from the steam client. That way you don't have to maintain two executables and everyone gets the latest version at the same time with the steam client only being required for updates (which it does very well).
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Steam - making the possible, impossible.
"There's an old story about the person who wished his computer were as easy to use as his telephone. That wish has come true, since I no longer know how to use my telephone" — Bjarne Stroustrup |
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TTD
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 9356 on topic
Location: Wiltshire,UK
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| Posted: Fri, 13. Jan 12, 22:12 Post subject: |
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Although this is a compromise of sorts,it does not address the problem for players who do not wish to have Steam in the first place.
Many players would like to be able to just install from a DVD and register with Egosoft,much as they have done in the past.
For me, it might be handy to have a steam-deactivated version to use for mods etc.So it is ok for me,providing it can sit alongside a Steam version,as Steam is the update source atm.
But if it is a case of Steam or no Steam, the I guess I have been entrapped by Steam,despite my reservations.
Still won't pay full price for games from Steam though.
Willing to pay full price for boxed versions to register on Steam.
That is the only way I will pay full price for the next X-game.
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the old one
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 634 on topic
Location: Redcar
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| Posted: Sat, 14. Jan 12, 09:57 Post subject: |
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[quote]Egosoft wrote:
For version 2.0 of X3:Albion Prelude, Egosoft is releasing a "no-Steam" executable to registered owners of the game through our online community. Those customers who do not want to have Steam running permanently can simply replace the executable and start the game without the Steam service even being installed.
Because this will remove all additional Steam services, such as the automatic updates and ingame community features, we do not encourage this for everyone. For us, as a small developer, the Steam community is much more than just a distribution platform or protection system; Steam reduces installation and support issues significantly, and adds many online community features for those players who want to enjoy playing an offline game together with a group of like-minded fans.
We do understand that some customers do not want to keep the Steam service permanently installed on their machine. The release of this "no-Steam" executable is, however, a one-time only service and we can not guarantee that this version will be kept up to date in the future.
Customers using this executable will still have to activate the game via Steam once, but can later download the no-Steam exe from our website. To access the executable it will be necessary to register your copy of the game in the Egosoft online community too.
Will the forth comeing release of the disc version of AP have the non steam EXE so we do not have any contact with steam at all,the old one
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Morkonan
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1387 on topic
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| Posted: Sat, 14. Jan 12, 10:26 Post subject: |
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I'll be watching for the non-steam AP release as that is the only one I will purchase.
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facetious1
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141 on topic
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| Posted: Sat, 14. Jan 12, 18:37 Post subject: |
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| NeverSnake wrote: |
The statement about not wanting the steam service permanently installed is a little odd, I don't think I've ever seen anyone object to having steam installed, most objections are either to Steam's business practices/reliability/monopoly etc. or to the steam client and it's restrictive options rather than any concern over it being installed like there was with starforce and it's potential rootkit access.
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So which monopoly or business practices are you talking about that are unethical? Just curious as this is the first that I have seen of such a comment... most do not like steam due to the background programs that are ran... I personally put steam in offline mode and then run my games just fine.... I also use 2 other game download sites... it does get a bit of a pain in the arse remembering which service I bought all my games from...
Any-hooch... was curious to what other "monopoly" or bad practices you were referring to (innocent question, not ment as an argument)..
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jimkey
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat, 14. Jan 12, 20:46 Post subject: |
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I hope it is not too late or maybe is already in the patch which is coming.
But few things I'd like to be added/fixed in the game.
1. When i scan a ship or asteroid it would be nice to them marked as being scanned on the screen. After scanning a ship you never know hove you done it or no ... so only if you open target menu an you can see the cargo there then you know. It would be better to add something to the icon. Or change color of borders and icons of the ship ...
2. Collecting containers in a sector. It is funny to see how your ship is cruising around the container and cant collect (seen it for hours...)... Could you add a collection radius to the ship so when it fly by the container collects it or make it fly point to point - so it flies to container stops.. turn to the next container .. fly there etc... It must be like a path in the space where dots are containers coords.
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TTD
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 9356 on topic
Location: Wiltshire,UK
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| Posted: Sat, 14. Jan 12, 21:09 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 1. When i scan a ship or asteroid it would be nice to them marked as being scanned on the screen. After scanning a ship you never know hove you done it or no ... so only if you open target menu an you can see the cargo there then you know. It would be better to add something to the icon. Or change color of borders and icons of the ship ... |
Interesting point.
Generally I don't scan ships except for missions.In which case I do not need to have an extra icon.
But if you are scanning ships for boarding assessments etc. then I can see where you are coming from.
As for scanning 'roids,you only have to look at the list next to the map.
Target the 'roid,check the list.
I agree with the cargo collection problem though.
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TCplots-AP
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Greyhawk1
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 4337 on topic
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun, 15. Jan 12, 01:21 Post subject: |
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First time I heard of this... been away from these fora for a while.
Unfortunately, since its Steam I likely wont get it. I hate Steam with an inhuman passion. It took me over two hours to install Skyrim directly as a consequence of Steam.
Can't we just buy the damn thing off a shelf for the love of Pete? 
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NeverSnake
Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 4948 on topic
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| Posted: Sun, 15. Jan 12, 01:43 Post subject: |
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| facetious1 wrote: |
| So which monopoly or business practices are you talking about that are unethical? |
That sounds like a loaded question rather than an innocent one, I don't know about unethical but I've seen plenty of people say they don't want a service run the way steam is as part of their game.
Have a look at the 250 page, three part, steam discussion thread in the rebirth forum. Off the top of my head I've seen posts objecting to the way steam installs adware without asking, the way you can't disable the adverts without turning off other features, the requirement to install one company's storefront to your machine even if you prefer a competing digital distribution company (and bought the game from them) and the way steam handles downtime announcements and consequences (e.g. causing Dead is Dead saves to vanish) but I'm sure there are plenty more.
Admittedly, most of it isn't an inherent problem with steam as normally only the people happy with that way of doing things would use it, it only becomes a problem when everyone's required to use steam if they want to play a particular game.
But this thread is for AP specific discussion, so we'd better stop the general steam discussion (or continue it on page 240 of the steam discussion thread.)
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Steam - making the possible, impossible.
"There's an old story about the person who wished his computer were as easy to use as his telephone. That wish has come true, since I no longer know how to use my telephone" — Bjarne Stroustrup |
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