[MOD][TC] Advanced Weapons Research Mod (AWRM) [v0.33/R13 - Sa-02-Jul-2011]

[project_mercy]

I'm guessing you preferred it that way, but I was having a hard time just seeing the acronyms for the wares or my ship loadout, so I changed the T files to include the rest of the names after the alpha designations, (example: <t id="250166">{9,515}hased {9,513}eutron {9,502}annon</t> ). I just thought it was a bit easier to read. Betty still reads off the acronym correctly. It just feels like it fits the game better with the full name.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Status Update
Formal v0.12 release!

Please note that the CMOD compatability patch still needs to updated for this new release (Patch only currently exists for AWRM v0.9 and CMOD 1.3)

Highlights of the new release are:-

• 1. Visual name change for APE/CPC/EPC/PNC to make them more human friendly
  2. Reduced race requirements for all APE variants (now more in-line with IRE/PAC)
  3. Rebalance of prices for all NEW Terran Weapons (primarily to help GoD pick the right ones )
  4. Addition of Marines and Marine Training to both HQs.
  5. EPCs now have shield disruption ability (as it should have done in the first place)
  6. CPCs lost shield disruption ability (was ineffective anyway)

Please see my blog for the more information.

[MegaBurn]

Looking at the wiki article, I'm a bit fuzzy on the differences between standard, enhanced, and advanced variants. Is this a rehash of the older alpha, beta, gamma variants? If so, and given most people are already familiar with it, and its still used for Kyon weapons, why not use that terminology?

The resulting naming conflict might be helpful, alpha particles are near harmless and while gamma is certainly harmful its not that kind of EMP. Keeping with the Terran "super-tech" theme and X sci-fi corniness:

For APE maybe Protonium Emitter (PE, APE, BPE, GPE), a degenerate-proton projectile launched in a meta-stable quantum stasis field, state change from impact or field collapse causes explosive decompression resulting in an proton/ion burst. Ion damage would make sense but considering everything else is optional. Lore would be something from extreme quantum compression research. Note, neutronium (from neutron stars) and quark degenerate-matter (from proto-blackhole neutron stars) could be used elsewhere as super-tech mass drivers and WMD. At those densities explosive decompression takes on an entirely different meaning, more like a nuke or MAMW, but small chunks would work as flak.

For GWG maybe Zero-Point-energy Modulator (ZPM), lore could be something like a failed attempt to miniaturize a PSP produced a weird EM flux which disabled the test ship, further development weaponized the effect (SG-1/SG-A inspired). If ZPM is awkward try Zero-point Energy Detonator (ZED) or Quantum-flux Energy Detonator (QED), same meaning.

Also, have you given any thought to extending this to enhanced and advanced Keris drones and laser towers? (those terms fit)

[Tempest-UK]

I have a little big problem: every terran ship is wielding an advanced CPC in each slot even the cutlass i got from the plot had 6 loaded. Is there a fixxx for this?

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Looking at the wiki article, I'm a bit fuzzy on the differences between standard, enhanced, and advanced variants. Is this a rehash of the older alpha, beta, gamma variants? If so, and given most people are already familiar with it, and its still used for Kyon weapons, why not use that terminology?

Simple answer, in order to make the on screen stuff look nice and for betty to be able to say it I had to use the Enh/Adv/Exp/Pro prefixes. Alpha/Beta/Gamma are not readily available in the capitalised and spoken form independent of the Kha'ak weapons. Besides which the Exp/Pro prefix for EMPC/SSC/MAML sets a precedent to use that style of prefix. This is not the old days of X3R and prior ladies.

The resulting naming conflict might be helpful, alpha particles are near harmless and while gamma is certainly harmful its not that kind of EMP. Keeping with the Terran "super-tech" theme and X sci-fi corniness:

You are SSSSOOO wrong there.... Alpha particles are the most deadly of radiation if you get exposed to it the ionising effect is quite lethal; However, it has a low penetration factor due to the simple fact that Alpha particles are basically a Neutron-Positron pair.

For APE maybe Protonium Emitter (PE, APE, BPE, GPE), a degenerate-proton projectile launched in a meta-stable quantum stasis field, state change from impact or field collapse causes explosive decompression resulting in an proton/ion burst. Ion damage would make sense but considering everything else is optional. Lore would be something from extreme quantum compression research. Note, neutronium (from neutron stars) and quark degenerate-matter (from proto-blackhole neutron stars) could be used elsewhere as super-tech mass drivers and WMD. At those densities explosive decompression takes on an entirely different meaning, more like a nuke or MAMW, but small chunks would work as flak.

The flak effect was added as a nod to the fact that the APE is rather weak on it's own and the theoretical lore behind it could be down to instability in the sub-atomic particles at a quantum level... it aint changing anytime in the near future.

For GWG maybe Zero-Point-energy Modulator (ZPM), lore could be something like a failed attempt to miniaturize a PSP produced a weird EM flux which disabled the test ship, further development weaponized the effect (SG-1/SG-A inspired). If ZPM is awkward try Zero-point Energy Detonator (ZED) or Quantum-flux Energy Detonator (QED), same meaning.

GWG is billed as being guided Electro Magnetic Wave, not some gravitational shockwave which would more than likely cause structural damage not just damage to ships systems like it currently does.

Also, have you given any thought to extending this to enhanced and advanced Keris drones and laser towers? (those terms fit)

No, No, and err No. Doing those requires modding to TShips (and make compatability with ship/station mods a pain) besides which is outside of the lore of my mod... for the time being it is just weapons.

I have been toying with some ideas for new missiles (especially for the Terran craft) such as a cheap low damage anti-missile missile which will be supported by something like the Mosquitto missile defence script (amongst other things) but these are still in the concept phase and not slated for release for a couple of weeks (at least).

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I have a little big problem: every terran ship is wielding an advanced CPC in each slot even the cutlass i got from the plot had 6 loaded. Is there a fixxx for this?

Not at this time, I have been contemplating the cause of the issue and the only answer may require a pretty major restructuring of the TLasers file... and also a restart for all users. Unless there is someway I can modify the selection method for spawning weapons by the GoD engine, not something I have looked into directly yet. Thought it was simply price based thus the rebalance of prices in v0.12 which has partly resolved the pre-v0.12 issue of non-use of Adv. PSPs (restart with v0.12 required to alter existing loadouts - Sorry, it is the GoD engine at work, nothing I have done directly).

What version of the AWRM did you start the game on? and what version are you running?

BTW You can always sell the Adv. CPC at say Saturn Research Station (for example), and buy something else from Spirt Industries HQ.

[Tempest-UK]

0.12 and 2.7.1

Ah, well tell me when you fix it

[project_mercy]

I kind of noticed that too, and I thought it was a result of my hacking around with AWRM so much.

How would one go about fixing this, if you were free to hack up the Tlasers file? What does GoD use to determine default loadouts?

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Status Update
Formal v0.13 release!

Please note that the CMOD compatability patch still needs to updated for this new release (Patch only currently exists for AWRM v0.9 and CMOD 1.3)

IMPORTANT NOTE: Due to changes to the structure of the TLasers file existing AWRM users (v0.12 and prior) will require a restart as of this version.

As of this release there should be less CPCs mounted to NPC ships in the universe but now there will be more PNCs mounted to NPC ships instead... you have been warned!

Please see my blog for the more information.

[project_mercy]

Thanks, I'll take a look.

[paulwheeler]

The resulting naming conflict might be helpful, alpha particles are near harmless and while gamma is certainly harmful its not that kind of EMP. Keeping with the Terran "super-tech" theme and X sci-fi corniness:

You are SSSSOOO wrong there.... Alpha particles are the most deadly of radiation if you get exposed to it the ionising effect is quite lethal; However, it has a low penetration factor due to the simple fact that Alpha particles are basically a Neutron-Positron pair.

To quote Wikipedia:

"In general, external alpha radiation is not harmful since alpha particles are effectively shielded by a few centimeters of air, a piece of paper, or the thin layer of dead skin cells. Even touching an alpha source is usually not harmful"

Beta and Gamma radiation are far more deadly. An Alpha souce is only dangerous if you swallow or inject it.

Oh, and BTW Alpha and Beta radiation are particles formed when a radioactive source decays. Gamma radiation is E-M radiation, like X-Rays.

Sorry - being an engineer I can't stop myself from chiming in on these things!

[Tempest-UK]

Due to changes to the structure of the TLasers file existing AWRM users (v0.12 and prior) will require a restart as of this version

Like a total restart of the game?

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

...Sorry - being an engineer I can't stop myself from chiming in on these things!

I am an engineer of sorts myself, so I perfectly understand where you come from.

I did do A-Level Physics and am very well aware what the different types of radiation are and their effects, suffice to say Alpha particles are the most ionising form of radiation, but due to their nature you do not typically get them in the same quantities as Beta radiation (energised Electrons) nor Gamma radiation (typically released when Electrons change energy state in an atom or when an atom splits).

But this is all a rather pointless discussion and WAAAAAYYYY Off-Topic.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Due to changes to the structure of the TLasers file existing AWRM users (v0.12 and prior) will require a restart as of this version

Like a total restart of the game?

Yes, sorry... It was unavoidable in order to fix the weapon spawning by the GoD engine.

[MegaBurn]

Its not off topic, its constructive criticism to improve the lore, perhaps brainstorming if you're interested...might even be interesting in a mad scientist sort of way...

Alpha particles are the most ionizing because its a helium nucleus, a larger nucleus would be more ionizing, but ultimately its all about how charge differential influences the chemistry. Thats why ionizing weapons are ineffective against armor - the material can be corroded if there is something else to react but that doesn't occur at a high enough rate to do any serious damage, and even if it did the penetration would be low due to the build up corroded material forming a protective layer. Then again, at extreme intensity the thermal and kinetic effects might be as damaging, but I can't imagine it being more effective than a heavier element due to thermal mass (i.e. mini HEPT, higher ROF).

There are plenty of other alternatives to alpha particles which could produce the APE effects, or the APE could be repurposed as an anti-shield weapon (e.g. pulse/bolt fire ion disruptor). Although my original point was renaming it for alpha-beta-gamma weapon variants, which I still prefer as its less ambiguous. If Betty is a problem it might be possible to port the audio from X3-R (no clue actually, haven't needed to do that yet).

For GWG maybe Zero-Point-energy Modulator (ZPM), lore could be something like a failed attempt to miniaturize a PSP produced a weird EM flux which disabled the test ship, further development weaponized the effect (SG-1/SG-A inspired). If ZPM is awkward try Zero-point Energy Detonator (ZED) or Quantum-flux Energy Detonator (QED), same meaning.

GWG is billed as being guided Electro Magnetic Wave, not some gravitational shockwave which would more than likely cause structural damage not just damage to ships systems like it currently does.

Never said it was a gravitational shockwave, only an EM flux burst effect due to quantum-flux created when a PSP misfires. Think of it as the quantum equivalent of ramping ground like a Tesla coil magnifying transmitter, literally "charging up" space, causing the quantum "froth" to boil over releasing all that energy in the form of a spontaneous EM emission. Might be necessary to add an EM wave guide to turn the amorphous EM field into something more focused and possibly downshift towards the low end of the spectrum (maser-ish) - which would be the post-discovery development from a failed mini-PSP into a ZPM/ZED/QED or whatever...

Yes, its far fetched but no more so than the PSP itself, and less so than getting the same effect out of gamma radiation in a hard vacuum - and is generally consistent with the X sci-fi corniness. The physics is good enough for game design and lore purposes, I have no clue beyond that, the quantum mechanics is beyond me.

Problem with using a gamma wave is similar to using alpha particles, effectiveness. Gamma pulse induced EM burst works by ionizing an atmosphere, the released electrons create a wide area EM field, frying electronics. In a hard vacuum there is no reaction mass and per shield effectiveness versus common solar emissions a gamma weapon intensity would have to be extreme, producing different effects. Thats not to say gamma rays aren't useful in weapons, the FBC could be a gamma laser, with plenty of head room for larger variants. There is a theory about antimatter pumped gamma lasers being able to trigger a weird fusion-fission nuclei-spallation effect in heavier elements, powerful enough to cause fission in the surrounding material - could guzzle MAMW ammo (assumes the normal FBC only fuses lighter elements in an alloy/composite).

Also, have you given any thought to extending this to enhanced and advanced Keris drones and laser towers? (those terms fit)

No, No, and err No. Doing those requires modding to TShips (and make compatability with ship/station mods a pain) besides which is outside of the lore of my mod... for the time being it is just weapons.

Not necessarily, it depends on the scope of the improvements, scripts alone can do most of it. Prime examples are MARS goblins (without the repair laser mod) and Ring of Fire. I haven't messed with vanilla drones much myself, just "containerized" ship pseudo-drones, but I think swapping out stock weapons would be the same as normal ships. Could make it a script-only upgrade, instead of adding new token wares for each drone just use extra weapons and energy cells from the parent ship cargo hold - weapons returned upon drone recovery or spawned in place when destroyed.


On missiles, yeah, a mosquito equivalent would be useful, as would an advanced disruptor variant.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

...

It is off-topic as far s I am concerned, you are entitled to your opinion, but so am I and it is MY work after all.

EDIT: Please stop the massive monologue and forcing your opinion on other people. The lore WILL STAY AS IT IS... enuough said.

[MegaBurn]

As you wish.

The notion I forced my opinion on you or anyone else is absurd. Do not insult me for investing a few hours of my time in attempting to help you improve your work.

[jlehtone]

Civil, please.

The game lore is not based on physics as we know it, and the mod lore are not bound to it either. It is however true that the lore do use familiar vocabulary at places, and therefore the readers unavoidably do compare the lore to real-world physics. From that follows the urge to propose real-world based changes/improvements to the fiction. But in the end the author of the fiction does decide on changes, and then the reader can either like or ignore the fiction.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

As you wish.

The notion I forced my opinion on you or anyone else is absurd. Do not insult me for investing a few hours of my time in attempting to help you improve your work.

No insult intended, I just want to put a stop to the discussions about Lore and general Physics (Sci-Fi or real) before this went REALLY way off topic, as I have seen happen many times in other threads.

The current state of play with the development of AWRM is that there will be no new lasers added (except perhaps an alternative to the CMOD EMR for those that use Cadius's ship pack with AWRM but not CMOD, want to avoid another restart), there is a small posibility of some new missiles being added to the mod, but the real next task is to add a JCRA plot line to unlock the sale of Xenon ship blueprints (J, K, P, PX, Q, LX, L, M, N).

Any feedback with respect to balance, bugs, or general inter-mod/inter-script compatability is appreciated.

But as of this recent close call , I am declaring ANY further discussion of the general Lore and general Physics off-topic (I do not want to go down any rabbit holes nor get embroilled in any arguments please).

[MegaBurn]

Civil, please.

Aye, I was under the impression it was a good ol' debate rather than a flat rejection.

The game lore is not based on physics as we know it, and the mod lore are not bound to it either. It is however true that the lore do use familiar vocabulary at places, and therefore the readers unavoidably do compare the lore to real-world physics. From that follows the urge to propose real-world based changes/improvements to the fiction. But in the end the author of the fiction does decide on changes, and then the reader can either like or ignore the fiction.

Indeed, but when physics is invoked and argued, as it was here, the suspension of disbelief threshold becomes a significant factor and a measure of "quality" sci-fi. While I respect an author's prerogative - even to the extent of being overly ambiguous or inconsistent - I believe the underlying issue is their disposition towards constructive criticism within the context of a community forum.


Request permission clarification per forum rules -or- blanket statement.

EDIT: Posted late. To "unass" a bit... I enjoy a good debate, as do some other people around here. Just keep in mind clarity is important, both in whether lore is sci-fi or fantasy, and if a statement is in context to a debate or authoritative as an author - else confusion is inevitable.

I'm thinking about implementing the changes I suggested along with the rest of the legacy weapons and some new stuff. Need to know if I can base it on AWRM (mod of a mod) or if I have to start from scratch. If I base it on AWRM you are welcome to merge in what you like, and I can help to maintain the Cmod4 and MARS data. Otherwise we can put the "debate" in practice with competing mods.