How to kill M6 and M7 with a fighter and without missiles.

[RyuKazuha]

@brattbags01: That's the point of using blind spots, the enemy turrets can't get a target on you there and thus won't shoot. The AI simply stops shooting, if you are not in the con of fire of it's weapons.

@Gazz: Sure, you can kill anything with the right gun, but this guide isn't about how to out range a M6 or M7, it's about how to deal with it independent of your load out. Your addition is somewhat like saying i could also just use another M7 and take it head on, right, but not quite the intention i had in mind.

When writing this, I assumed a early game state, where you've a couple of PACs or HEPTs to go with, wich are quite easy to obtain.

[garv222]

While it's possible to take out m7's with a fighter... I think I'll fall asleep doing it. The heaviest weapon a fighter can typically carry is around a HEPT power wise I suppose. Then factor in power generator on a fighter.... it's just not fun anymore(at least for me).... and one big sneeze while I'm flying and I can accidentally wander into a blind spot and get a 1 shot KO isn't helping. I suppose you could use missiles...but then I'd be firing from 3km+.

This list is still great for me using my hyperion or perhaps when I get a spring blossom. Both are great ships for doing strafing runs like a less maneuverable fighter. Got into a "furball" with 4 xenon Q's and had great fun weaving in and out firing tornado missiles. Somehow that's more fun than lobbing typhoons at them.

[RyuKazuha]

Well, i tend to use my Perseus XT with 4 PBE, 2 PAC and 2 HEPT, but for the sake of getting more intel to base this guide on, i also did it with only 4 PACs iirc.

It takes some time, and sure, if you have a M6, it's just dumb not to use it, if you want to do it quickly, however it can be quite some challenge and finally watching this thing explode just gives you the feeling to really have proven yourself worthy.

And if there is a way to take down an M2 with a Fighter, im quite sure I'll find it. Without rockets of course. However, i doubt this is possible, a M3 is generally to slow to evade enemy fire long enough (since none of the M2s seems to have a blind spot worth calling) and M4/M5 just don't bring the weapon power to do damage that isn't just absorbed be the shield recharge.

[Gazz]

Your addition is somewhat like saying i could also just use another M7 and take it head on, right, but not quite the intention i had in mind.

Now I think you're getting confused. This thread is about fighters taking on M7 or bigger. =)
All I'm saying is that you can use a fighter... with a different approach regarding weapons and tactics.
(Actually, I'm uncommonly on topic here =)

Knowing about blind spots is not the only way to fight something bigger. It's useful alright but still only one way.

Knowing yours and your prey's laser ranges and turret placement can be just as effective.
In fact, it's safer because there is no ingress phase during which you usually have to cross at least one Flak turret's arc of fire.

You're also not at knife range this way. While hugging the prey it can fire missiles right through it's own hull which leaves you or your turrets practically no time to shoot them down because you can not shoot through the ship. This can get ugly in a real hurry.
Staying out of range you can also turn around and bolt anytime. A worthy consideration for a terrier attacking a bear. =)


With PBE and HEPT you're going to take an eternity for this.
Using EBC you can drop a destroyer in the time you might need for an M6 with your energy lasers and you can safely stay out of Flak range while doing so.

And if there is a way to take down an M2 with a Fighter, im quite sure I'll find it. :P Without rockets of course. However, i doubt this is possible, a M3 is generally to slow to evade enemy fire long enough (since none of the M2s seems to have a blind spot worth calling) and M4/M5 just don't bring the weapon power to do damage that isn't just absorbed be the shield recharge.

But that's what I did quite casually like that. Launch Eclipse, head to paranid M2, go dakkadakkadakka, target go boom.
No great preparation or reloads...

An Eclipse is quite useful for that because it has the cargo space for the ammo and with shields like that you don't have to be as careful about stray PPC bolts. =)

[RyuKazuha]

Yeah, okay, depending on the Thread title, you're right, your method would fit in, maybe i should have made it more precise..

But, with your permission, I'd say I'll try out your approach and add it to the guide, advancing it to a "How to take on Capital Ships in a Fighter without missiles".

Deal?

[imperium3]

Another thing that might be worth considering is that some of the heavier weapons can be treated as blindspots if you are in a fighter, and not too close. It's not too tricky to dodge PPC or IBL if you are maneouvrable enough. For M6s this is a different story of course, because you're a much larger target.

[Gazz]

That only works if the turret can only mount these heavy lasers.
All AI capital ships switch lasers depending on the target and range so in a fighter you wouldn't be evading PPC for long.

[RyuKazuha]

Did you avoid my question on purpose?

[Gazz]

What question?
Do you mean if I'll allow you to play the game and write up what you find? You have my sincerest permission to do so. =P

[wizrd755]

And if there is a way to take down an M2 with a Fighter, im quite sure I'll find it. Without rockets of course. However, i doubt this is possible, a M3 is generally to slow to evade enemy fire long enough (since none of the M2s seems to have a blind spot worth calling) and M4/M5 just don't bring the weapon power to do damage that isn't just absorbed be the shield recharge.

Pre X3TC v2.5, me and my Cutlass had 2 K, 4 J, and 6 Q kills. Takes a long time for the K, IIRC, I had to do 8-12 passes to take the K. I believe the Q was only 4 or 5 passes... They all melt away once you bust the shields..

I can't remember if I had just EMP's or M/AML's cause I can't remember if the Cutlass carries them, but for sure 100% did it with EMP.

Not there yet in my current 2.5 restart, but will be shortly..

[bob4356]

Found a nice blind hole on the Khaak corvette too. Dead behind the engines at about 150m range, it can't hit you too often. Nothing quite so satisfying as taking out a corvette class in a Terran Sabre.

[RyuKazuha]

Updated to include Gazz' approach.

[Gazz]

Heh. Texas Chaingun Massacre.

Very entertaining writing style all throughout. A lot of guides are such terribly dry reads.

[perkint]

A drawback to the EBC approach is that, since the cap guns will be equiped, they will never be dropped as bounty.

Just thought it was worth mentioning

Tim

[RyuKazuha]

This is a combat guide, not really about scrapping enemies for salvage, so I'll not add that as a downside.

[Gazz]

Maybe pointing out the obvious but if someone doesn't look up a shiptype in this list but only scans an enemy ship and sees that there is no top turret in the list, it takes very little imagination to figure out that the top might be relatively safe.

But if I have learned one thing then that there is no "obvious" when explaining something. =P

[RyuKazuha]

You said it yourself, explaining something means pointing out the obvious above all other. I've seen various Profs now, that have several doctoral levels yet don't figure the reason for their PC not starting is simply the main power switch turned off. (It's really funny to see your !computer science! prof open a computer for that very reason and turning him into a tomato upon being told the truth...)

[Nexuswolf]

Here's some tips from when I managed to take a Kha'ak corvette out in my Terran M4 near the beginning, one shield missing and only 2 guns.... plus a load of retries

It's rotating 'fins' will play havok with you, it's difficult to track if the main body has rotated or turned, and will mask/cover it's turrets when your attacking it from behind, which may seem a good thing sometimes, but you could be blasting away thinking your safe and suddenly it's slamming you with it's beams. Watch this carefully.

I noticed that it used beta and alpha emitters, betas (white/blueish) on the top, alphas (purple) on the bottom. You wont be able to always avoid them, you probably will always be getting hit, so make sure it it has to be one, make sure it's the alphas.

This is part of why it's spinning 'fins' are annoying, they can end up disorientating you and lining you up for the betas, which will hit and hurt unless you at it's range limit and your strafing your little thrusters off.

Keep your distance too, if you loose your position just retreat, it's much better that way.

Bottom line, your going to get hit, make sure it's just the alphas, and retreat when your low on shields, 50% to be safe, your shields should regenerate faster then it's, just take your time

[dctrjons]

Don't ignore strafing with 'vettes, there is a chance with smaller ships that they miss and the further you are the better.

There is a travel time, by appearances it's just a delay between the beam appearing and the 'trigger' pulled and by the figures that delay is 350ms or less depending on distance. (-Beta, Alpha is much harder to dodge, but only because it's range is shorter)

However, you can strafe a good ~10-20m in the delay between the ship firing and the beam forming. That is enough for a miss, as long as you keep changing direction.

You will still be hit, there is a momentum delay any time you change direction and the ROF will catch up to you, so I recommend a smooth cycle strafe. I've had a good 5 seconds of misses ~2-2.5km before the distance was too short. But by then the shields are down.