X2: The Threat vs X3: Reunion

XM · Post by XM » Tue, 18. Mar 08, 21:04

I've got X3 but am thinking on purchasing X2 so I was wondering what all your guys views are on both games.

Pros and Cons lists?

AlderonDark · Post by **AlderonDark** » Tue, 18. Mar 08, 21:14

Maybe take a look at this thread and see if it answers some of your questions.

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=202901

Alderon

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Tue, 18. Mar 08, 21:36

This could open up a can of worms again.

X2 Pros.

More intimate feel to the game with internal docking.

Plotline grabs you more than the X3 "continuation" of the story.

More diverse ship models that "work" better (for my money) in the game.

Sector nebulae that do stuff.

Several sectors look way better than their X3 counterparts.

Several station models look better than their X3 conterparts (again, personal view).

Several scripts available to add some stuff.

X2 Cons.

More micro-management for factory loops.

Poor cut-scene animations for plot.

Pirate ship models stand out as "a bit wierd" compared to other ships.

Slightly more static universe economy, though stuff still changes.

For the BEST X game (again, my "want list" only)

The Teladi and Split from XBTF
+
Ship models from XT (extra ships from X3 remodelled in the same style)
+
Sector nebulae from X2
+
Sector appearance from XT and X2
+
Station interiors/exteriors from X2
+
Universe and the rest of the game mechanics from X3

XM · Post by XM » Tue, 18. Mar 08, 21:44

Ahh sweet, nice selection of pros there.
I was just looking at some trailers of X2 and the graphics (not suprising) are alittle less advanced than I expected. Comparable to Freelancer IMO.

Any views on this?

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Tue, 18. Mar 08, 21:57

Graphics of X2 are a lot better than freelancer for me.

The whole feel of the X2 universe (in fact even XBTF looked better to my eye than freelancer) is more polished than that of freelancer definately.

As a whole, the look of the XT universe and ships was rather nice, though I suppose that would be a little dated now, but the actual X2 universe was way better implemented than freelancer AND the other X games.

Nightwatch · Post by **Nightwatch** » Wed, 19. Mar 08, 00:07

Agreed. X2 looks better than Freelancer. I did like the way freelancer did turreted ships though.. probably the best thing I liked about it.

Observe · Post by **Observe** » Wed, 19. Mar 08, 04:49

The way I look at it, is somewhere during early X3 development, someone decided to put all the Egosoft eggs in a new game-engine basket. This took most of the available resources, with the consequence of a lot of broken eggs which never made it into the release basket. As far as I'm concerned, X3 was mostly downhill from X2 - with very few exceptions. But that's just my opinion. Others may feel differently. Regardless, I still love X3 in spite its short-comings. I can only hope TC is all, or at least most of what X3 could have been to start with.

BrigandPhantos · Post by **BrigandPhantos** » Wed, 19. Mar 08, 11:28

Personally I prefer the way sectors are set up in Freelancer better. I also liked the dynamic race relations system of it as well. I like the idea of being able to completely fly around a planet, and the suns were part of the mix as well.

Some of the derelict ships made for an interesting mix, and almost crashing into a planet while in a cloud of dust gave it a unique feel along with the dark matter clouds.

Functionality and replay value are all better with X-Universe though. I'll play X3 over Freelancer any day. I do get urges to load Freelancer from time to time, it having been my favorite since the time of Wing Commander and Privateer, but I fear it'll only collect dust as part of my collection of ever outdated games.

On that note, I'd like to pay tribute to the following games/series:

Mechwarrior 1 - 4 + Mercenaries and the Mechcommander games
Freelancer
Wing Commander, (long live the tigers claw)
And all the others I won't mention for fear of getting this thread locked for going to far off topic.

Thanks egosoft for continuing to impress your fans and customers, and thanks to the others for hooking us on this genre in preparation of one of the greatest games of all time. "X3"

TerrorTrooper · Post by **TerrorTrooper** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 03:08

Observe wrote:The way I look at it, is somewhere during early X3 development, someone decided to put all the Egosoft eggs in a new game-engine basket. This took most of the available resources, with the consequence of a lot of broken eggs which never made it into the release basket. As far as I'm concerned, X3 was mostly downhill from X2 - with very few exceptions. But that's just my opinion. Others may feel differently. Regardless, I still love X3 in spite its short-comings. I can only hope TC is all, or at least most of what X3 could have been to start with.

In many ways, i have to agree here.

X3 sure is beutifull, the new sectors sure are nice, the economy is much more interesting, but X3 lacks a lot of what made previous incarnations of the game so wonderfull and addictive.
X3 lacks a LARGE portion of its predeccessors atmosphere.
Like nemtioned before, the Internal Docking, Cockpits, Warp tunnels,
I also miss the Old Titan, and Old Phoenix, and the old Condor from X2. They dared to be different. even the personalised logo you could stick on your stations and ships..
X3 lacked all the touches that made my game really feel like my game..

Although the game engine was a step in the right direction,
i feel Egosoft took out a lot of what made it feel personal to the player.

On the note of Freelancer.
Most people here Hammer it, Rather unfairly in my view.
Freelancer has a crude, static economy, and once you own an Eagle, 3 million Credits, and a pair of nomad cannons, thats it! nothing else to do.
But for all its faults, it was atmospheric, it had a gripping storyline, and sitting back, and listening to random chatter made you feel a bit at home.
Games like X, Freelancer, Elite should make you feel immersed, after all,
they are role play games of a fashion.

Freelancers Sectors however, they were BIG! and they felt BIG! and incredibly diverse, without 2 areas of space being the same!!
This is one Area where i still marvel at freelancer. its sector design.

Oh..
And as previously mentioned...
Long live the Tiger Claw!!!

Nightwatch · Post by **Nightwatch** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 03:15

I have to agree. for TC I hope the are looking at what made the previous X-Games good and look at incorporating those into the game. If that means it turns into X4.. well I'm not gonna complain too much.

X3 has some serious rough edges.. and I miss the Pheonix and Condor too

I still remember that Pheonix looming at you out of the fog at the beginning of X-BTF

BlueTrin · Post by **BlueTrin** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 03:26

I reallly liked Freelancer, I do play space sims more to pilot rather than building an empire, and because it reminds me alot of movies.

Actually, I would play any game where the story is as immersive as Freelancer. You do not have loading screens in Freelancer, you feel like you are "living" the game, when you warp from sector to sector, some pirates can ambush you on the way using a device to "interrupt" the warp lane.

The small details like these (another which is coming to my mind, is the lost naval base surrouned by a massive minefield, the clouds of acid or ice which can damage your hull) made the game really feel alive for me.

X3 is still a very good game, but I would buy an extension pack for Freelancer any day.

Tenlar Scarflame · Post by **Tenlar Scarflame** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 03:57

Lancer does have a lot going for it in terms of how sectors looked. The nebulas were GORGEOUS, the fragment fields were GORGEOUS, and there were so many different kinds! Fields that had been strip mined, fields still rich in resources, debris fields, dust clouds, planet fragment fields, lava fields... it's wonderful. X could learn from that. Especially the nebulas.

mystikmind2005 · Post by **mystikmind2005** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 04:10

In X2 it is reasonably possible to capture a Khaak m3. For that reason alone it is worth trying!

To cap a khaak m3, i like to use a split Iguana, charge at it head on with full speed and then turn like hell to get in behind him, then he's yours! In X2 the Iguana is a pretty awesome ship. I personally prefer it to any other combat ship aside from the Khaak m3. I mean, once i got used to the reduced turning speed i really didn't have any interest at all to go back to any of those uselesly slow m3's.

ephemeron · Post by **ephemeron** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 05:09

TerrorTrooper wrote:even the personalised logo you could stick on your stations and ships..

Wait, you used to have your own logo? That would be cool, all right.

I don't know what I'd pick for my X-Universe company logo, but my twisted imagination is already coming up with commercials. "Whether it's ore or meatsteaks, soy or shields, Space Fuel for your friends or flaming plasma death for your enemies... Ephemeron Mixed Industries has it.*
Ask about our special bulk rate for Xenon extermination!

* assassination services available only to registered law-enforcement agencies, or anyone else who posts on a random station bulletin board"

adobis · Post by **adobis** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 15:12

X2, because i think that the trading and the economic is better done that in X3!

e4gail · Post by **e4gail** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 15:32

adobis wrote:X2, because i think that the trading and the economic is better done that in X3!

How so? Can you explain? I am looking at doing the trading thing big time this run and still undecided on which to do - X2/X3

Others here said X3 but I am curious why you say X2

adobis · Post by **adobis** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 16:25

I say that because in X2 stations send freighters to provide'em in goods, in X3 it's only based on traders, the more logic is that stations count on their freighter i think

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Thu, 20. Mar 08, 20:53

Observe wrote:The way I look at it, is somewhere during early X3 development, someone decided to put all the Egosoft eggs in a new game-engine basket. This took most of the available resources, with the consequence of a lot of broken eggs which never made it into the release basket. As far as I'm concerned, X3 was mostly downhill from X2 - with very few exceptions. But that's just my opinion. Others may feel differently. Regardless, I still love X3 in spite its short-comings. I can only hope TC is all, or at least most of what X3 could have been to start with.

This thread has galvanised me into bunging X2 back on my system.

I have to say I mainly agree with the above comment. For a game several years older the X2 player experience is better than X3, even taking out the complex hubs and other X3 innovations. Yeah, the plot cutscenes stand out as a little stilted, but the actual story you take part in is more engaging than the X3 continuation as well, even though I think the majority here are like myself believing the plot of the X series is only a tiny part of the whole.

The stations in X2 have things happening on (and in) them, the nebulae and sector backdrops are nicer on the eye. In comparing just the look of X2/X3 I think X2 wins hands down. The most glaring defficiency of X3 being the cloudy sectors where you can see the backdrop but not something 2Km away. X2 deals with this in a lot more pleasing fashion, and with the additional dangers posed by nebulae that will eat your hull or sheilds meaning you need to take care of where you send your ships, X2's wins again.

The X3 stations may have been originally designed to have moving bits on them, I don't really know, but the wheat farms for example look like they were originally supposed to have the growing area dome sections moving. I suppose the fact that the complex tubes might have caused glitches if they got in the way of moving items on the stations might have precluded the addition of animated stations.

Whatever the reason my X3 universe looks and feels less alive, and as such less fun to play in, even with the added extras X3 has with GOD, complexes, general economy tweaks over X2 I'm still having more "fun" in X2 now that it's back installed.

BrigandPhantos · Post by **BrigandPhantos** » Fri, 21. Mar 08, 00:58

Just a quick reminder to everybody reading this thread, don't forget about DevNet here in the forums. I can't remember the exact procedure to join them if you haven't already, but I would consider making these points in them as the coders and writers of the game do pay attention to what's posted in them. X4 is set to come out at the end of this year, pending any set-backs and push backs that usually happen with games like this. Read the posts there in DevNet, follow the posting procedures, and make your points there. Youy may yet see things returned in X4 that were taken out in X3.

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Fri, 21. Mar 08, 03:10

Posted something about the feel of the universe in there several times over the years, but the more that do the same the better...

...only if they want the games to go the same way I do though, If you don't agree with the things I have said over the years about X then it's probably not worth you posting into the Devs areas....