HQ Construction chart
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two quick questions......
are there any ships that will make a prifit if sold to a shipyard?
is the pirate nova raider still 3 sheilds?
if i RE an original 3 sheild nova raider, will it still have 3 sheilds?
Do any of the races actually automatically buy ships of the HQ?
i would presume if you wish to sell them, this would be a manual thing?
any help would be cool.
are there any ships that will make a prifit if sold to a shipyard?
is the pirate nova raider still 3 sheilds?
if i RE an original 3 sheild nova raider, will it still have 3 sheilds?
Do any of the races actually automatically buy ships of the HQ?
i would presume if you wish to sell them, this would be a manual thing?
any help would be cool.
Apparently the game saves into savefile some information about a ship. For example, how many shields it installs. So the specs, while shown, are only used while creating the ship. And game creates a ship by looking its specs from the game file. So my bet is that the RE simply looks up the object type ID from the "reversed" sample and stores that. When the HQ then builds a ship, it looks the specs of that ID from the game file. The RelValue is used to compute the requirements, and effective stats become what they are in the game file. RelValue is used to compute the shipyard prices too. I have not figured out the constant multiplier, but it is near 80. Naturally, the price at SY includes also standard (S/M/L) equipment.Looney wrote:if i RE an original 3 sheild nova raider, will it still have 3 sheilds?
Which reminds me. Built-in equipment. For example, the Ore Collector on Miner variants. Does that duplicate? It would be kind of hard to add Triplex on Jag Raider later on.
Why the savegame holds the data on shield count is beyond me. IMO, one should always dynamically refer to the game file. As is the savegame can have ships that "do not exist" due to game file change.
AFAIK, the Argon Nova Raider was never supposed to have 3 shields. One of the earlier patches probably tried to fix that, but accidentally decreased the number of shields in Argon Nova Sentinel. I think both "bugs" have been now fixed.
Edit: This is the German thread. Nearly 60 hours for Titan. I think I rather buy 20 rather than build them.
I've edited the two 'special' cases (show in red text).
Also added the buying cost (minus min. equipment = 1MJ or 125MJ shield) of each
ship from a shipyard (if you can in fact buy it, a lot you can't).
Also removed some of the dafter 'ships', eg can't see anyone REing an astronaut or spaceflies,
even if you could put them in the production queue, and you can't capture a khaak cluster
to RE it anyway. (Can you capture UFO in 2.0?, left that in just in case).
btw the 'prices' values (yellow on the top right) can be edited, so eg if you make some
of these for free you can see how it affect a potential profit making enterprise
(you'd even make some profits from those Argon M1/M2s if resources cost you nothing).
Anything I've missed or got wrong? Perhaps the table order could be better.
(Download link is in 2nd from top post in this page)
.
Also added the buying cost (minus min. equipment = 1MJ or 125MJ shield) of each
ship from a shipyard (if you can in fact buy it, a lot you can't).
Also removed some of the dafter 'ships', eg can't see anyone REing an astronaut or spaceflies,
even if you could put them in the production queue, and you can't capture a khaak cluster
to RE it anyway. (Can you capture UFO in 2.0?, left that in just in case).
btw the 'prices' values (yellow on the top right) can be edited, so eg if you make some
of these for free you can see how it affect a potential profit making enterprise
(you'd even make some profits from those Argon M1/M2s if resources cost you nothing).
Anything I've missed or got wrong? Perhaps the table order could be better.
(Download link is in 2nd from top post in this page)
.
Dave Toome wrote:
Also removed some of the dafter 'ships', eg can't see anyone REing an astronaut or spaceflies...
Aww, come on. What could be more fun than going into X101 and launching 50 space men?
I believe the tactical term is "chaff".
Of course, the problem is, as soon as a space man enters a ship, he's a slave.
Spreadsheet re-ordered, the ships are much more logical now,
and tarted it up (much easier to read, I think),
and finally remembered to put the INT()s into the formulae,
Download link in 2nd post of this page updated, repeated here:
A whole 42 KBytes download
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.zip
or 154 KBytes straight to Internet Explorer
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.xls
I wonder if it's worth starting a new thread,
(with credits to contibuters)
and asking TSM for it to be put in the Guides sticky ?
Otherwise this thread will sink down the forum pretty pronto.
edit: just seen the Teladi Phoenix is also a special case: updated
edit2:
Can you make a goner ship for free, or do you still have to buy the resources?
edit3:
Did we beat the German forum to it?, I looked at the thread linked by jlehtone,
I'm guessing so, but I'm afraid I can't read German.
and tarted it up (much easier to read, I think),
and finally remembered to put the INT()s into the formulae,
Download link in 2nd post of this page updated, repeated here:
A whole 42 KBytes download
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.zip
or 154 KBytes straight to Internet Explorer
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.xls
I wonder if it's worth starting a new thread,
(with credits to contibuters)
and asking TSM for it to be put in the Guides sticky ?
Otherwise this thread will sink down the forum pretty pronto.
edit: just seen the Teladi Phoenix is also a special case: updated
edit2:
Can you make a goner ship for free, or do you still have to buy the resources?
edit3:
Did we beat the German forum to it?, I looked at the thread linked by jlehtone,
I'm guessing so, but I'm afraid I can't read German.
Dave, since we have the ratios of different wares, say for each Crystal two Chips, three Wafers, and four Ore, could those ratios be converted into factory units? They are obviously not 1:1. I'm thinking of the recipe for balanced resource complex here.
Edit: I took the liberty to advertize the spreadsheet in that german thread. (No I cannot read nor write german either, but that does not stop me. ) They are mainly shouting "errors" or something to that effect.
Edit: I took the liberty to advertize the spreadsheet in that german thread. (No I cannot read nor write german either, but that does not stop me. ) They are mainly shouting "errors" or something to that effect.
jlehtone : you'll get me in trouble ....
Had a look a what was being said on the German forum, getting some hilarious Google translations,
the best I can understand is that there seems to be some small errors in nividium for khaak ships.
Possibly also a tiddly bit of 'not invented here' syndrome, which is not too surprising, no bad feeling though I hope.
I think I'll check (as many as I can) of their posted values against the spreadsheet, to see if anything shows up,
with 5 pages of posts I might go cross-eyed before the end.
Also it seems at least one person is against having an xls sheet, in favour of a html doc,
which means every ship would have to have been RE'd by someone.
About the factory complex thing:
haven't given it much thought yet but wouldn't it depend on what ships you choose to produce?.
I mean there's no point in putting up a mega-complex that produces a balanced ratio of needs,
but at 10x the rate that it's being used.
Also different scales of complexes would need different factory combinations, especially if you start using M sized ones.
And then of course there's the question of the mix of factories from different races.
That's quite a challenge to automate the design for (but possible, I think), I'll look at it anyway, but no promises
(Anyway where'd the challenge be if the sheet just told you everything).
Perhaps initially it would be better to have extra columns in the xls that show
'resources used per hour' for each resource type, so that you could add-up your chosen ship (set?) resource needs up,
and use Merroc's (or my) factory complex calc. xls/util to design the best complex?
Had a look a what was being said on the German forum, getting some hilarious Google translations,
the best I can understand is that there seems to be some small errors in nividium for khaak ships.
Possibly also a tiddly bit of 'not invented here' syndrome, which is not too surprising, no bad feeling though I hope.
I think I'll check (as many as I can) of their posted values against the spreadsheet, to see if anything shows up,
with 5 pages of posts I might go cross-eyed before the end.
Also it seems at least one person is against having an xls sheet, in favour of a html doc,
which means every ship would have to have been RE'd by someone.
About the factory complex thing:
haven't given it much thought yet but wouldn't it depend on what ships you choose to produce?.
I mean there's no point in putting up a mega-complex that produces a balanced ratio of needs,
but at 10x the rate that it's being used.
Also different scales of complexes would need different factory combinations, especially if you start using M sized ones.
And then of course there's the question of the mix of factories from different races.
That's quite a challenge to automate the design for (but possible, I think), I'll look at it anyway, but no promises
(Anyway where'd the challenge be if the sheet just told you everything).
Perhaps initially it would be better to have extra columns in the xls that show
'resources used per hour' for each resource type, so that you could add-up your chosen ship (set?) resource needs up,
and use Merroc's (or my) factory complex calc. xls/util to design the best complex?
Yes, the Google is hilarious (or maybe the original text is, wouldn't know).
I know that absolute magnitude depends on ship (class?). But within class, continuous building should produce the same per-hour, for any ship. So, one could build for the most demanding class, and then handle the excess, like fud said.
But yes, a column of numbers to conveniently play with in complex calculation is what I had in mind. How to totally mess up with scales and races is the task of the player.
I know that absolute magnitude depends on ship (class?). But within class, continuous building should produce the same per-hour, for any ship. So, one could build for the most demanding class, and then handle the excess, like fud said.
But yes, a column of numbers to conveniently play with in complex calculation is what I had in mind. How to totally mess up with scales and races is the task of the player.
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Incubi
does production time equel re time?
I think I've read that that is so, I'm still REing the M7 myself
so I haven't got as far as production
lt_wentoncha
Can we also start factoring in avg cost of materials and the avg cost at shipyards? I have a sneaking suspicion it's cheaper at shipyards
The avg price (editable) for each resource is in the xls sheet - is that what you meant?
What's cheaper at shipyards?
Repeating the links in again here (no more changes in sheet yet),
cos I think people might not see them otherwise.
Can't keep doing this repeat, going to ask TSM if it's worth sticking.
A whole 56 KBytes download
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.zip
or 199KBytes straight to Internet Explorer
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.xls
Not had a chance to look at the German thread yet - *looks at clock* - tomorrow.
does production time equel re time?
I think I've read that that is so, I'm still REing the M7 myself
so I haven't got as far as production
lt_wentoncha
Can we also start factoring in avg cost of materials and the avg cost at shipyards? I have a sneaking suspicion it's cheaper at shipyards
The avg price (editable) for each resource is in the xls sheet - is that what you meant?
What's cheaper at shipyards?
Repeating the links in again here (no more changes in sheet yet),
cos I think people might not see them otherwise.
Can't keep doing this repeat, going to ask TSM if it's worth sticking.
A whole 56 KBytes download
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.zip
or 199KBytes straight to Internet Explorer
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.xls
Not had a chance to look at the German thread yet - *looks at clock* - tomorrow.
Last edited by Deleted User on Fri, 24. Nov 06, 20:48, edited 2 times in total.