esd's X² guide to loops

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DeathAndPain
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Post by DeathAndPain » Tue, 23. Aug 05, 08:06

Do I sound arrogant if I say that I do not feel the need for such a tool, or written loop diagrams, for I have no problem planning my loops using only my brain? That does not mean that there is something wrong with anybody else using such help if so desired. I just do not have the impression that it is necessary, not even for my complex open loops.
Shanjaq wrote:Hey just got my first double loop running after 2 nights of preparation!

It started as a single energy loop in Herron's Nebula
[...snip...]
While I built up an excess of energy I flew over to Family Pride and picked up some Split stations to assemble a 25mw Shield loop(minus the energy component.) Once they were set up back in Herron's Nebula I pulled all the stored energy over into the new stations and got them started immediately.
Question remains why you did not set up your energy loop where you would later need the energy. Or, if your plans developed step-by-step, why you did not put the 25MW shield fab into Herron's Nebula. If you are going to do everything by closed loop, it would not have mattered that it consumes Split food. You can hire a cheap Boron or Teladi station transporter. A few thousand credits for the jumps of the hired transporter do not really make a difference.
Shanjaq wrote:I wrote my own script as a variant to the Maintain Product Quantity which accumulates and then delivers wares to a single player-owned consumer station.
You know that this is cheating unless you also implemented excessive pilot fees like in the original scripts. :twisted:

Shanjaq
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Post by Shanjaq » Tue, 23. Aug 05, 09:46

DeathAndPain wrote:why you did not put the 25MW shield fab into Herron's Nebula. If you are going to do everything by closed loop, it would not have mattered that it consumes Split food. You can hire a cheap Boron or Teladi station transporter. A few thousand credits for the jumps of the hired transporter do not really make a difference.

Yes, it is all in Herron's Nebula, all 8 factories powered by a single SPP, plus a Wheat Farm to siphon off the slight excess of energy.

DeathAndPain wrote:You know that this is cheating unless you also implemented excessive pilot fees like in the original scripts. :twisted:
To me, cheating is spawning resources and items out of thin air(or empty space...) I only built a cut-down version of Trade Command MK2 which is also limited to delivering only to player-owned stations that can use the homebases product. if Trade Command MK2 operates for free(it's just software, no pilot involved, hence no fee) then something half as useful and not to mention unprofitable should be free as well.

I still use the SDS/CLS to supply multiple factories with the same ship, I'm willing to pay for that sort of intelligent resource management. You might contest that Loops in general is cheating, but then why haven't the devs nerfed the SPPs so they can only supply a single station?


The idea for this loop was to provide 25MW shields for all of my freighters, I'm sick of them getting eaten by KM5s when my sector patrols are looking the other way!
[ external image ]
SPACE HAS A TERRIBLE POWER

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DeathAndPain
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Post by DeathAndPain » Tue, 23. Aug 05, 14:07

You might contest that Loops in general is cheating
To the contrary. When you invest money and set up a factory, you can well expect that it generates some value (and not just compensates for its own expenses). A chain of factories is an even bigger investition. I even think that the value generation per factory in X2 is far too low, so you need to exploit the foolishness of AI stations for the real profit.
The idea for this loop was to provide 25MW shields for all of my freighters, I'm sick of them getting eaten by KM5s when my sector patrols are looking the other way!
I have done a similar thing by setting up lots of factories for food and energy in Split space, so that their economy works better and their 25MW fabs actually produce shield for me to buy. Since demand for my products is high, my supporting fabs make a fortune in gold and silver to pay for the shields. :-)

xria
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Post by xria » Tue, 23. Aug 05, 14:44

Do I sound arrogant if I say that I do not feel the need for such a tool, or written loop diagrams, for I have no problem planning my loops using only my brain? That does not mean that there is something wrong with anybody else using such help if so desired. I just do not have the impression that it is necessary, not even for my complex open loops.
Sector Planner isnt really a tool designed to help design a loop, its power is the ability to aggregate the demand from a local area, which of course isnt really needed for closed loops, but if you want to have open loops then knowing if there is a large net drain on a particular good, whether it be crystals or argnu beef, in a region is a powerful thing to help you plan to avoid having all your goods in a sector nabbed from halfway up your production line whatever price you set, leaving any downstream factories you built unprofitable.
I even think that the value generation per factory in X2 is far too low, so you need to exploit the foolishness of AI stations for the real profit.
Hmm so a 240k power plant that can make back the money it was bought for within 2.5 hours in a good spot isnt profitable enough for you?

I could certainly agree if you said that some of the stations werent profitable enough, certainly if compared to others, but it is fairly fast already imo (even for a game which has to be relatively fast and profitable compared to how any real situation would be).

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DeathAndPain
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Post by DeathAndPain » Wed, 24. Aug 05, 15:10

Hmm so a 240k power plant that can make back the money it was bought for within 2.5 hours in a good spot isnt profitable enough for you?

I could certainly agree if you said that some of the stations werent profitable enough
Okay. Everything except SPPs is not profitable enough...

theKettle
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Post by theKettle » Sun, 28. Aug 05, 20:42

Warning: Slight Unknown-Sector spoilers contained in post!


Great guide esd, now I've installed the bonus packs I have the fun of removing all the TS's from my closed loop system, outfitting them with ATC (perhaps selling most of them and replacing with mambas) and getting them all going again - a slightly daunting task!

The main reason I use closed loops is for atmosphere/role-playing reasons - I have all my basic loop factories in the first unknown sector near Interworlds, with the top-end weapon and shield production in the adjacent sector - hidden away so I can build up and arm my fleet in secret. There's a lack of much silicon however, so I'm considering using the unknown sector behind the Xenon sector, which has enough silicon and ore to power loads of factories. For normal space, however, open loops definitely the way to go (currently my income is primarily from assassination and XI missions, but I haven't got many factories running in populated space).
------------------

If I want to be toned up, calmed down, invigorated or anything then it's very simple. I just have a cup of tea.

bpfontain
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x2thethreat

Post by bpfontain » Sun, 2. Oct 05, 02:05

can l buy a factory in the first mission andwhere is guide for beginners

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esd
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Re: x2thethreat

Post by esd » Sun, 2. Oct 05, 02:22

bpfontain wrote:can l buy a factory in the first mission andwhere is guide for beginners
Please see your original thread :)

Everyone else - glad you like the guide, and that it's actually helped one or two of you :)
esd's Guides: X² Loops - X³ MORTs

Yellowman
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Post by Yellowman » Tue, 22. Nov 05, 17:15

maby a bit of n00b but what do u mean with ''Logistics Software Equipped'' :) what is the logistics software.

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esd
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Post by esd » Tue, 22. Nov 05, 18:03

This is an X² guide :)
esd's Guides: X² Loops - X³ MORTs

CHAZZ
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Post by CHAZZ » Tue, 22. Nov 05, 20:38

The 'upgraded' SDS script in X2 is also called 'Commodity Logistics Software" maybe he refers to that one :roll:

On a side note, the Commodity Logistics Software is NOT identical to the older SDS. SDS can deliver, for example, Silicon from silicon mine to silicon mine, while the CLS cannot, since it sees both silicon mines as 'Source' and none as 'destination' or 'customer'. That was a major hickup for me, because i used to use the SDS script to gather tons of silicon from my mines in Ore belt to one mine, and ferry it from there with 2 SDS Demeters to my (then) biggest loop complex in Herron's Nebula. What i did, was to build a Silicon mine on that useless silicon asteroid in H. Nebula (nicely positioned to me), and, as said, ferry tons of silicon from Ore Belt to that 'useless' silicon mine acting as a dump storage. All the Crystal fabs/drone fabs etc would buy their needed silicon from there.
Not doable with CLS.

Workaround: deinstall CLS, install SDS, set your SDS freighters as needed, re-install CLS again. Done. CLS ships work as intended (10 suppliers to 20 customers) and the few SDS do their part of the job.
The developers should kept the option to deliver same product between same fabs (also useful to ferry Food from Food fabs scattered around to a central positioned Food Fab with many Hi-Tech fabs like 125MW Shield fabs and God knows if they can suck huge amounts of resources all of a sudden.

C.

Apocholypse
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Post by Apocholypse » Tue, 22. Nov 05, 22:23

Didn't realise logistics software exsisted, I know SDS does but logistics :o

Well you learn something every day, this will be quite useful cheers esd!

Yellowman
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Post by Yellowman » Wed, 23. Nov 05, 12:00

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh X2 lol yeah but how too do that with X3 :wink:

big biff
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Post by big biff » Wed, 18. Jan 06, 13:53

:? SO CALL ME STUPID BUT .. Where do or can i get this bonus plug in pack :o ???? I have installed the 1.4 update for x2 is there anything else i need any help would be appreciated ........ :arrow: :)
BAD DOG, GET DOWN..

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esd
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Post by esd » Wed, 18. Jan 06, 13:55

big biff wrote::? SO CALL ME STUPID BUT .. Where do or can i get this bonus plug in pack :o ???? I have installed the 1.4 update for x2 is there anything else i need any help would be appreciated ........ :arrow: :)
Click me, I'm a link to the download :)

I really should get around to doing a loop-guide for X³, but I'd need to build a loop in X³ before I could do that :wink:
esd's Guides: X² Loops - X³ MORTs

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Stevio
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Post by Stevio » Wed, 18. Jan 06, 14:13

esd wrote:I really should get around to doing a loop-guide for X³, but I'd need to build a loop in X³ before I could do that :wink:
Good idea.
*HINT*
don't forget. Spp production is alot easier to understand in X³ as sunlight in all sectors are the same [100%]

so no matter what sector you choose the same size Spp [M,L,XL] supply for the same amount of factories in a loop or complex.

cheers

stevio

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Wed, 18. Jan 06, 14:22

stevio wrote:
esd wrote:I really should get around to doing a loop-guide for X³, but I'd need to build a loop in X³ before I could do that :wink:
*HINT*
don't forget. Spp production is alot easier to understand in X³ as sunlight in all sectors are the same [100%]
I would not call the X2 sunlight "difficult". I call it fun. :wink:

And 'complex' is an implementation of 'loop'. The CLS ships are merely replaced by tube mess. :wink:

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Stevio
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Post by Stevio » Wed, 18. Jan 06, 14:52

jlehtone wrote:
stevio wrote:
esd wrote:I really should get around to doing a loop-guide for X³, but I'd need to build a loop in X³ before I could do that :wink:
*HINT*
don't forget. Spp production is alot easier to understand in X³ as sunlight in all sectors are the same [100%]
I would not call the X2 sunlight "difficult". I call it fun. :wink:

And 'complex' is an implementation of 'loop'. The CLS ships are merely replaced by tube mess. :wink:
i didn't say X² sunlight was "difficult" i said X³ Spp production is easier to understand

a loop is not a Complex, the definition of a Complex is a link of Stations via a Complex Construction Kit *No Freighters*

but i know where your coming from :D

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esd
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Post by esd » Wed, 18. Jan 06, 15:05

stevio wrote:a loop is not a Complex
No, but a complex is a loop, just with hard-wired zero-credit inter-trading.
esd's Guides: X² Loops - X³ MORTs

Roenie
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Post by Roenie » Sun, 8. Oct 06, 14:10

Good stuff.

Here's my guide on loops:
http://forum2.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=73990

A lot bigger, but uses a similar way of explaining things...using images!
Last edited by Roenie on Sun, 8. Oct 06, 14:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Roenie's Guide to Open and Closed Loops (X2)

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