[X3LU] Mayhem 3.7d

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Joubarbe » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 22:15

Hector0x wrote:
Sun, 8. Nov 20, 10:52
I'd also like to lower chaff trigger chances (anyone know how/where to adjust CCDS in LU's game files :?: )..
IIRC, it's one of the turret scripts, starting with an exclamation mark. Or search for 'chaff' in script names.

eugene171
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by eugene171 » Mon, 9. Nov 20, 18:04

Hoo buddy it's been a few years but I downloaded Mayhem 3.4d and am in the early stages (still on the Xenon plot, no idea what happens next)

Most of my experience is with vanilla LU and this is a huge change so I have a few quick questions:

1. What is the best way to make credits? I have a few traders running from my outposts which is enough to support my modest fleet, but have concerns about scaling this up when my M2s come online.

2. Are there any good boarding guides? I'm slowly collecting marines but want to make sure I'm building a good team

Thanks all!

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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Hector0x » Mon, 9. Nov 20, 19:28

eugene171 wrote:
Mon, 9. Nov 20, 18:04
1. What is the best way to make credits?
Stealing credits during boarding 8)

Good passive income can be looting, depending on your location. Selling stuff from your production lines is usually enough to keep you afloat. You need much less money in this mod. Cash won't get you most of your ships for example. Resources are the "new" currency.
Late game the tax perk will be your only practical source of income.

PoliceTrooper
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by PoliceTrooper » Tue, 10. Nov 20, 18:23

Good afternoon,

Might be that I'm just missing a button, but I'm dead stuck on this Mayhem 3 playthrough. I'm at the stage where I recently acquired the
Spoiler
Show
Xenon Hunting and Learn to Jump
missions. The latter pointed to a station in a sector that I could easily find, so no issue there. I have however been doing a bit of empire management, setting things up and whatnot, and a while later I find a Split fleet wrecking havoc in that sector and destroying everything, including the station that I'm supposed to land at for my mission. The personal journal entry remained unchanged, pointing to a station that no longer exists, and I'm unsure on what to do.

Is there any way to get around this issue that doesn't involve redoing half a day's worth of empire setup and manual early game trading?

Cheers,
PT

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Joubarbe » Tue, 10. Nov 20, 19:01

Loading your game should fix it.

BigBadBill_87
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by BigBadBill_87 » Wed, 11. Nov 20, 17:43

Hello all

Newbie question 2

I've finally got a sector up and running, but i'm really struggling with logistics and agent configuration.

The sector has one of each station needed to produce other stations and about four worker agents.

How should i best set the agent jobs up?

I tried the preset 'Complete', but the agents spend half the time in the outpost docked browsing through jobs, factories sit empty or full and everything is super slow.

I experimented and tried loading the preset 'Stations' but then the agents just sit and leave all the other factories crying for stock and they don't supply them. Everything grinds to a halt.

Is there some sort of guide that explains how the agents work, or how is should configure the outpost?

What is best practice?

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Joubarbe » Wed, 11. Nov 20, 19:23

On the first page, you'll find a few links, including the tutorial videos of Hector, which I highly recommend.

Caitess
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Caitess » Wed, 11. Nov 20, 23:10

hey guys! I've just started mayhem and been trying to figure out auto mining with ts miner but see no 'Mine...' task in menu. is it supposed to be like that or I fcked smth up during installation? I must admit, I never player LU either, but expected abundant of scripts for every possible task here...

thanks for answer!

BigBadBill_87
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by BigBadBill_87 » Thu, 12. Nov 20, 00:18

Fairly certain you have to assign miners through an outpost. Set the ship as an outpost worker then select miner

Caitess
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Caitess » Thu, 12. Nov 20, 00:29

BigBadBill_87 wrote:
Thu, 12. Nov 20, 00:18
Fairly certain you have to assign miners through an outpost. Set the ship as an outpost worker then select miner
so there is no way to auto-mine before first outpost built? :( shame, I wouldn't buy miners if I'd know.

VaVylon
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by VaVylon » Thu, 12. Nov 20, 15:45

Greetings, guys!
Have some troubles. Have a message "error loading save game, may be corrupt" when I am trying to load savegame. I wrote some posts ago that this moment could be in some situations after boarding process. Look's like for me it's the trooth too becase sometime ago I have boarded a NPC ship. The bad moment for me is that all my save games (including auto-save) are currently corrupted and I don't have back up before board process :cry: .
Did anybody have a suggestions? You can realy save me! Start new game is killing me, cause a very lot of time passed from begining (currently at "terraform planets" stage :( )

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-d_uuQ ... sp=sharing

Caitess
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Caitess » Fri, 13. Nov 20, 12:15

one more question guys - it there non-standard LU UI that fully compatible with Mayhem?

dunderhead327
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by dunderhead327 » Fri, 13. Nov 20, 18:39

OK people, what am I missing? There must be something - this doesn't seem right, but it's stuck in my head.

Most of what follows is hypothetical and untested, and much is based on information posted by Edna and Hector0x, but here goes:

Jump beacons do not need any energy to use, so fighters do not need carriers to extend their jump range. They will also reach their destination faster on their own than if in a carrier. Carriers are therefore only useful to rearm fighters and repair damaged ones. If I am going to use swarms of M4s or M5s against the OCV I don't need to rearm, and I wouldn't expect many to survive if they do get hit. In any case, a damaged M4 could quite likely get home faster on its own. Carriers are only useful if I want to use M3s with missiles - I don't know whether firing clouds of cheap missiles is a viable strategy.

However, M1s make the most cost-effective battleships, because they can use capital weapons and shields, and are much cheaper than M2s. I have done some testing, using ships with max. shields and PPCs in all turrets - no fighters, no support or escort ships, no additional equipment or missiles. The results show that if an Ocelot (approx. 6M Cr based on prices in the encyclopedia) takes on 4 Polaccas (approx. 1.65M Cr each) or Zeuses (1.25M each) OOS, it's goodnight Vienna. Typically, 3 Polaccas or 2 Zeuses survive, albeit with at least one of them damaged. In sector, with other factors involved, it can go either way, but I think the M1s still have the edge. Similarly, although I haven't tested this, I suspect that the only M7 (possibly excluding M7Ms and other M7Cs) capable of living with multiple Griffons or Ariadnes worth a similar amount would be the Acinonyx. A Griffon costs less than a Tempestine, and the cheaper M1s are less than some M7s.

My conclusion is that M2s and most M7s offer poor value for money, and should be avoided. My fleet should consist of M1s, M7Cs, and fighters, plus TPs for the marines. M4 and M5 swarms probably need to be in their own fleets to stop them trying to dock with the carriers. I don't even know whether M6s are worthwhile, except possibly as my personal ship.

As I say, this doesn't feel right, but I need someone with more experience to tell me whether it's complete bollocks so I can concentrate on other things!

As a trivial aside, the encyclopedia prices for the CCDS upgrades are way off - CCDS 3 is listed as 12.8M Cr, not 43K for one green crystal. Presumably they are left over from LU or Mayhem 2.

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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Hector0x » Fri, 13. Nov 20, 22:00

I think M1 are so strong because OOS doesn't require laser energy. The difference between OOS and IS is a bad mess in every X3 iteration (X4 is even worse from what you can read :lol: Basically everyone is telling you to stay far away from any action so that your fleets aren't completely useless).

Sometimes i feel like we should strive to reduce this IS/OOS difference as much as possible by making sure that almost every gun rarely misses in-sector and that almost every ship can support the energy demands of it's standart weapon loadout (because OOS they do always hit and they ignore energy). If you don't want a huge in-sector/OOS difference, then the core balancing can only come from 2 raw angles. Weapon compatibility + amount of hull/shield hitpoints on the ships, and DPS on the weapons. Accuracy, bullet speed, firing range, all of this only makes the weapon less effective in-sector if these values are set too low. But you can't simply crank all accuracy values up either. This is still no pure numbers game. It's at least equally a game about flying and fighting personally in space. The player needs opportunities to be better than the AI.

Overall i also feel the need for some adjustments. As you said, you don't need carriers to carry smaller ships into battle. They are already faster and can also use the jump beacon network just fine. Don't get me wrong. You have much greater incentive to use mixed fleets than in any other mod (with some ship classes even working correctly for the first time!), but there is room for improvement.

I'm planning to do small laser and missle rebalance submods. I don't really want to touch the ship stats as there are so many designs. But there will probably be no way around this to achieve the things i want. :(

- accuracy of some fighter lasers is way too low (caused by incredibly tiny bullet hitboxes). To me this almost feels like a bug. High Energy Plasma Thrower is a good example. For some reason it's projectile hit detection is up to 5 times narrower than many similar guns. Making it almost impossible to hit small targets with it even at just medium ranges.
- M6 need a small boost or some sort of unique ability like superior speed or weapon choice. I don't yet know how. But somehow. Mayhem 3 combat scripts make them attack way better than before. But i feel they are extremely expensive for what they can do. Especially their survivability in heavy fights is laughable in my opinion. Since in Mayhem 3 they finally properly align, stay in position and just fire their guns i thought about giving their weapons very high range and bullet speed to make them effective snipers which could also increase in-sector combat survivability
- light fighter swarms need a slight nerf in my opinion. This is difficult since the player should also have some way to handle hostile capships early in the game. You can't introduce a balance where fighters can't touch capitals. But M2 are the big prize everybody always wants to get his hands on eventually, so they should be devastating. Right now they don't quite feel like the overpowered hulks they should be.
- OCV could do with a huge damage nerf. The player needs more freedom in how he wants to deal with them. I don't like that you have to deploy super effective min/max cheese tactics to stand any chance. The absence jumpdrives is a huge nerf for the player and NPC's also can't respawn their fleets so easily anymore. These are the 2 reasons which make me believe that the OCV needs to be weaker than they were in LU or Mayhem 2

- i want completely altered missle dynamics. In theory missles are perfect for Mayhem 3. Enemy fleets don't respawn that quickly. Each engagement has much more weight. Damage consumables like missles are much more alluring than ever before. If you can alpha-strike a powerful local battlegroup thanks to your missles, then this would totally be worth the resource investment. Fully automatic missle resupply systems can also be setup very easily in Mayhem 3 (we can even update templates including resupply info on the fly now). But in their current implementation missles are NOT worth it. Their damage is quite ok when they hit. But they cost way too much compared to how often they get intercepted by chaff.
My idea is to make missles super super cheap, but still very demanding in terms of slow fire rates, heavy cargo sizes, and cargo-classes. The idea is to make them good damage boosters which are very viable from the economic side of things. But you'd need a mixed fleet to properly use them.

To make them work you'd have to establish some sort of frontline supply lines with large fleet resupply ships. This could also give carriers a new role. They would have much less firepower without access to the biggest capital guns. But on top of their mobile repair ability they would provide large mobile cargo for a decent price, better than M2. They could rearm smaller ships, which themselves could only carry very few missles into each battle.

- lots of small ships needed for missle alpha striking
- M1 to rearm small ships
- TL and jump beacons needed for proper resupply
- only M2/M2+ able to use biggest guns/missles

dunderhead327
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by dunderhead327 » Sat, 14. Nov 20, 15:32

Thank you for confirming that at least some of my analysis is reasonable.

I agree with almost everything you say, and have a few suggestions. Some may be completely impractical as I don't know how the game engine works.

Actual lasers (that's anything with "laser" or "ray", and possibly "photon" or "electro-magnetic" in their name) should be speed of light weapons, and impossible to dodge.

Weapons and shields should be classed as light, medium (200MJ shield), heavy (1GJ), and capital (2GJ). Only battleships and battlecarriers (M2 - sorry, but I hate capital units being called destroyers, etc. - thanks Mr. Lucas) can use capital class items. Fleet carriers (M1) and most cruisers (M7) use heavy, but a few M7s are as big as a battleship - make them battlecruisers with capital guns but heavy shields. Light carriers (Griffon, Ariadne) should probably only get medium guns and shields, but cruiser-carriers with less than 10, maybe 15, fighters keep heavies. Deimos, Tern, and Hayabusa fall somewhere between CVLs and cruisers - maybe give them heavy shields but only medium weapons. M6 (escorts) and TM (escort carriers) get medium, fighters and bombers get light. Every commonwealth ship should be able to use every non-Terran weapon of the appropriate class (they've been around for hundreds of years!), but race-specific weapons are only used by the corresponding navy. Every ship should be able to use shields and weapons of any lower class.

Guns and shields should not take up cargo space when equipped, but extra could be carried in the hold as wares.

Boost M6s with sniper capabilities by giving laser weapons (GRC and/or PALC) extra range, but only if they are mounted in the main frontal battery and the ship has Video Enhancement Goggles. I suspect that it would be impossible to implement, but another option would be to give them some sort of external missile capability - they could volley a small number (maybe 6 or 8 ) of M8 missiles, but not be able to reload whilst in space. The missiles should not take up any cargo space when in their launchers, but reloads could be carried in the hold.

Remove laser power limitations, except possibly from fighters. RoF should be enough to simulate power consumption.

Bring back the Jumpdrive, either with its old energy requirements or as too big for fighters to use. The player keeps the experimental drive.

Ditch Chaff. Any missile fast enough and accurate enough to hit another missile in flight should have at least some anti-ship capability, but should something that small be as accurate as it is? Anyway, "chaff" should be a passive decoy, not an active anti-missile system. Replace it with a point defence system - either re-purpose CCDS to work without the missiles but with a reduced hit probability, or introduce CIWS based on multi-barrel MDs or IREs in turrets. Medium CIWS = twin mount, heavy = quad mount, capital = 8 barrels, keep the same damage per projectile, multiply RoF by the number of barrels, possibly reduce range at each step to simulate additional vibration through the mount. It still needs to be possible to overwhelm the missile defence.

I have not yet reached the OCV stage as I have been spending much of my available time working on my encyclopedia updates - I just have some Terran ships left to do.

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