[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b

[Troubleshooter11]

This sub-mod seems pretty cool, though i'm a little bit concerned it breaks down the races a bit TOO much so i'm hesitant to try it out.

Just my personal preference of course, but i would have loved to see a division of the races based upon their old alliances. So Argon/Boron vs Paranid/Split, both those factions hating the Terrans, and Teladi as a neutral party.
Lore-wise that would make a bit more sense as the Argon and Boron are close friends and unlikely to slaughter one another. Gameplay wise it gives the player a bit more breathing space while still having a very divided and chaotic universe where choosing your allegiance is important.

Just my 2 cents.

[Joelnh]

is this compatible with XM-R ?

[angrytigerp]

Are there any known incompatibilities with other sub-mods affecting AI?

Specifically, I got soft crashes when I added Mayhem to a working (tested) LUV install, granted it was simultaneous with a couple other mods I had forgotten I had downloaded as I lost them in a different DL location.

In particular, it seems obvious (in retrospect) that Phanon Plus is probably an issue? Because I noticed a LOT of overwritten files between P+ and Mayhem when I installed the two. Ditto, to some extent, for memeic's improvement collection.

I'm in the process of reinstalling LU (a few times, probably) and testing to see if:

A.) Mayhem works for me with nothing else installed (but LUV, of course)
B.) See if memeic's stuff works if I avoid his fixes that target AI (at least according the installer).

Logic says using P+ with this is probably a complete wash.

[Wanabe]

Are there any known incompatibilities with other sub-mods affecting AI?

Specifically, I got soft crashes when I added Mayhem to a working (tested) LUV install, granted it was simultaneous with a couple other mods I had forgotten I had downloaded as I lost them in a different DL location.

In particular, it seems obvious (in retrospect) that Phanon Plus is probably an issue? Because I noticed a LOT of overwritten files between P+ and Mayhem when I installed the two. Ditto, to some extent, for memeic's improvement collection.

I'm in the process of reinstalling LU (a few times, probably) and testing to see if:

A.) Mayhem works for me with nothing else installed (but LUV, of course)
B.) See if memeic's stuff works if I avoid his fixes that target AI (at least according the installer).

Logic says using P+ with this is probably a complete wash.

Phanon Plus and Mayhem should be compatible, you'd just lose the starting generation that Mayhem sets. I havn't tried Mayhem yet but I also doubt it's the cause. Memeics tweaks are not likely to be the issue either as they're very well tested alterations. I'm thinking it's probable there's an bad/infinite loop somewhere in Phanon Plus which would show itself as a complete game freeze which I assume is what you're describing by a soft crash. I'll start looking around for it but if you have a save file with a test case perhaps PMing me with a link of the save plus a list of what mods you're running could help me locate it.

[edit]Actually, the thought just occurred to me. P+ should be compatible depending on the installation order. Mayhem overrides one of the Phanon script files in order to get the starting generation tweak in but if that file is used with other Phanon Plus scripts it will cause a freeze very shortly after Phanon Plus turning on (IE soon after starting a brand new game). Phanon Plus needs to be installed after Mayhem.[/edit]

[ItsMeAUsername]

Seems great thus far! Thanks Joubarbe!

Any (obvious) reasons why we can't tweak the race relations to our individual likings? I mean, the actual relations are easy to change, as far as I noticed while briefly looking at the code, but will it likely break something/everything else?

[Joubarbe]

Seems great thus far! Thanks Joubarbe!

Any (obvious) reasons why we can't tweak the race relations to our individual likings? I mean, the actual relations are easy to change, as far as I noticed while briefly looking at the code, but will it likely break something/everything else?

The better way to edit starting relations with other races is to modify addon\director\start.xml.

You can be friendly to everyone if you like, it won't break anything. But the mod is intended to start at -3 with every other races, because it feels good to deserve friendship And very doable (before the end of day 2, I was friendly to two races other than my allegiance).

[Shomey]

Seems great thus far! Thanks Joubarbe!

Any (obvious) reasons why we can't tweak the race relations to our individual likings? I mean, the actual relations are easy to change, as far as I noticed while briefly looking at the code, but will it likely break something/everything else?

The better way to edit starting relations with other races is to modify addon\director\start.xml.

You can be friendly to everyone if you like, it won't break anything. But the mod is intended to start at -3 with every other races, because it feels good to deserve friendship And very doable (before the end of day 2, I was friendly to two races other than my allegiance).

Are your trade ships smart enoughto stay out of danger? And how about Saturns, using the Teladi Saturn mod?

Which start did you take? I'm trying to decide which to go. Things like Saturn, PHQ and those OTAS stations are worth considering when picking.

[Joubarbe]

In my current game, I picked the easiest start : Argon. And befriended Terrans.

I have 20 traders and I've lost none. Few ships will attack you on sight when in other sectors, like Teladis' (M6 Weapons Traders can be a pain).

[CNR4806]

Glad to see someone bringing the chaos back. I used to run XRM+IR and LU was just way too peaceful for me.

There is, however, an issue related to the Terrans. Sometimes they would invade a sector and capture it... in the name of the ATF, in which case auto-population wouldn't work. Defense force would also spawn with "ATF Defense Force" in their names but Betty would still read it as Terran, and the fleet composition is definitely the usual Terran defense fleet spawn (mix of Terran and ATF ships).

[Shazbot01]

Played a game as a Yaki today and participated in a Yaki invasion with the Paranid, but it never ended and I got bored babysitting the confused M2, so here is my idea.

The invasion fleet's job is to focus on weapon platforms and defenders, while the player and other marine-carrying ships ferry marines to the stations for capping or self-destruction. This might help the M1/M2/M7 to save their energy for other ships, and lets me end an invasion sooner instead of a never ending slugging match.

It might be fun to to play against a timer while transporting marines. So when I start or finish capping a station I get more time. If time runs out, more defenders spawn.

If I cap a station with my own marines, I get the station. If I cap with faction marines I pick up from the source (station, cap ship?) the station belongs to my faction instead.

If I don't have a marine carrying ship, I could dock at a friendly shipyard / trading post and get a free TP for the duration of the invasion, then either keep it after the invasion ends if my faction likes me enough or return it for a credit and relation bonus.

If my faction relation is high enough could I tell friendly cap ships to jump away and re-arm if they are going to get killed?

Could you add an option for Phanon to be a target for OCV / pirates / yaki?

Love the idea of MOAR COMBAT WHEEE! with LU's improvments by the way.

[Joubarbe]

@CNR4806 : thanks for the report ; I'll have to look into it. If you could post a savegame in which a sector is tagged as "ATF", that would be great !

@Shazbot01 : Well, these are your ideas, and I agree to none In 30 hours, six sectors have fallen in my game (and two more from the OCV), and this is enough to my taste. Ok this mod is about chaos, but it must remain playable, and must preserve the "X3 feeling". And about Phanon : I won't change this faction, because it would be very hard to balance. Phanon will remain LUV's Phanon (except that they start at generation 5).

[dizzy]

Played a game as a Yaki today and participated in a Yaki invasion with the Paranid, but it never ended and I got bored babysitting the confused M2, so here is my idea.

In-sector M2s (and other capital ships without main guns) have a special logic code path in LU attack scripts to try to approach the enemy broadside (so they fire their side turrets). This generally makes them more effective than in vanilla but the code uses a scripting function to move them which isn't interruptible so sometimes the capitals get stuck trying to beeline to an enemy that has long since moved away (or even got killed). My "Better Capital Ship Attack Run" change from the Small Fixes and Improvements pack should fix this issue, try it out and let me know how it works for you.

[shameless creature]

@CNR4806 : thanks for the report ; I'll have to look into it. If you could post a savegame in which a sector is tagged as "ATF", that would be great !

I've had the same thing happen in my game. First the Paranid conquered Terran C, then the ATF took it back. Here's the save: http://www.mediafire.com/download/5gk4b ... 3h/X03.sav

Another issue I've noticed involves Mi Ton's Refuge and Patriarch's Conclusion. The Terrans took over both sectors, but after a while the original sector owners' shipyards respawned. Especially the Pirate shipyard is spawning Pirate ships en masse, but the Terrans keep ignoring it and likewise the Pirate ships just try to leave the sector without engaging the Terran fleet.

Generally, the Pirates could use their own invasion fleets, their peripheral sectors are falling pretty fast.

[Joubarbe]

Thanks for the save.

I noticed the same thing, and I must investigate to see where this auto-respawn comes from.

The fact that Pirate sectors fall quickly is intended. With this chaos, having one less enemy is not a bad thing. It's likely Pirates will be completely exterminated after a while in Mayhem (if I manage to remove the auto respawn).

[shameless creature]

You probably noticed it yourself, but the auto-respawn also applies to equipment docks, trading stations, stock exchanges, military outposts, research stations etc. All the types of stations not affected by GOD in the vanilla game. Orbital Weapons Platforms as well, e.g. a Boron OWP in Hila's Joy which is under Split control.

By the way, do you know if Mayhem works with X3 Remap for LU?

[Joubarbe]

What ? Auto-respawn should NOT apply to these types of stations. Oh, wait, you're talking about the vanilla auto-respawn that I don't know how to remove ? In that case, no I didn't notice it before (at least for trading stations ; OWPs have a very high respawn rate, which is completely stupid IMO - don't know if I have to blame Litcube for that, but hey, let's blame him!), and this is a problem

It should work with every map. The invasion takes the shipyard's sector where the invasion forces are built, then search for the nearest sector, randomly.

[ItsMeAUsername]

I can add to the list of weird station spawns. Had two argon military outposts in Magnetar Zeta after OCV captured it. Would be happy to provide more details, but just saw them later, so no idea what went wrong there - sorry.

And while I suppose you're aware of it (and it ain't particularly problematic)... the periodic commonwealth defense/attack against the OCV seem to still be carried out by several (hostile) races at once. Its kinda funny to watch several e.g. boron and split ships jump in, start attacking one another, only for the survivors to be wiped out by the OCV.

[Joubarbe]

Yes, I'm aware of that, and I don't care

Well, let me rephrase : I put chaos into the universe ; there's gonna be some problems/inconsistencies. Even the respawn is not a major problem for me, because I'm pretty sure it's unfixable. We'll see that. After all, you can rebuild with just a TL in the sector, so we can imagine that Commonwealth's races do the same But I'd like to fix this though...

EDIT : game's autorespawn is confirmed to be hardcoded. A shame...

[CNR4806]

Yes, I'm aware of that, and I don't care

Well, let me rephrase : I put chaos into the universe ; there's gonna be some problems/inconsistencies. Even the respawn is not a major problem for me, because I'm pretty sure it's unfixable. We'll see that. After all, you can rebuild with just a TL in the sector, so we can imagine that Commonwealth's races do the same But I'd like to fix this though...

EDIT : game's autorespawn is confirmed to be hardcoded. A shame...

Hmm, instead of trying to prevent the auto-spawn (which you found to be impossible), how about some ways to detect that spawn and make sure the station/OWP is destroyed in short order? Would that work?

[Joubarbe]

Yep, it's possible to assign a particular signal to OWPs, and when the signal is received, destroy it automatically. However, it needs to be consistent, ie applied to all spawnable objects. And I can't figure exactly what respawns and what does not.

Sorry, I really don't have time to look into it right now. I don't consider that a major bug, and even if it was, I wouldn't be able to fix it properly.