[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b

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piequalsyummy
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Post by piequalsyummy » Mon, 19. Mar 18, 09:36

Joubarbe wrote:Every game is different
I can attest to that. I've played numerous games while testing various scenarios and modding the game.

Sometimes the pirates go on a rampage and conquer a bunch of sectors and sometimes its the xenon. I've even seen the yaki conquer the entire southern section of boron and split space.

The games where that stuff happens usually turn out far more interesting than when not. The races behave much differently when they have lost a bunch of sectors to hostiles. I actually prefer the unpredictability of those games.

worsin
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Post by worsin » Tue, 20. Mar 18, 09:48

There seems to be a problem with the Baldric Super Freighter dying by Ore or Silicon Mine.

They get stuck somewhere and die.

I've lost 6 in just a few hours already to both Silicon and Ore mines.

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Joubarbe
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Post by Joubarbe » Tue, 20. Mar 18, 18:30

It's a known vanilla issue.

Unfortunately there's nothing I can do. Note that collisions only occurred when in active sector. So 1/ avoid being where they are 2/ put other smaller ships (normal TS) to this task.

Shepp
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Post by Shepp » Thu, 22. Mar 18, 22:56

Joubarbe wrote:It's a known vanilla issue.

Unfortunately there's nothing I can do. Note that collisions only occurred when in active sector. So 1/ avoid being where they are 2/ put other smaller ships (normal TS) to this task.
Would it be possible to automatically attach a complex hub to mines when they're constructed? If there was a hub away from the asteroid a little bit there would be less chance that TS's would ram themselves to death.

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Joubarbe
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Post by Joubarbe » Fri, 23. Mar 18, 11:26

Hmm... Maybe. Good idea. I'll have to look into that. Someday.

VincentTH
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Post by VincentTH » Fri, 23. Mar 18, 16:55

Joubarbe wrote:Hmm... Maybe. Good idea. I'll have to look into that. Someday.
May be do that for Sanctuary too!!! I hate having ships blown up while they dock to or get out of the sanctuary!!!

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Joubarbe
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Post by Joubarbe » Fri, 23. Mar 18, 19:38

Not the same problem.

Pax Empyrean
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Post by Pax Empyrean » Tue, 27. Mar 18, 14:19

Love the mod so far. Got a couple of questions, a request, and some balance analysis and suggestions.

First, is the amount generated by taxes at each sanctuary level documented anywhere? I know it's $150/person at level 2, $200/person at level 3, $300/person at level 4, and $500/person at level 5. I'm starting a new game and planning things out, wondering what the rate of return is at each of the higher levels.

Second question: what does subjugation do?

Now for the request: is it possible to implement the ability to rename sectors? This would be super convenient.

Now for feedback, specifically the balance of various station perks: manufacturing weapons to sell beats all other perks for generating income (except maybe tax, if it really ramps up at higher levels) by a wide margin. One population building things produces 12 work per minute, and weapons have a profit ratio of about $60 per work spent before specialization is factored in, meaning you can expect about $720 per worker per minute making weapons before specialization comes into play, which can increase your profits by either about half or more than double them if you get the improved specialization perk as well. Call it $1000 per worker per minute making and selling weapons at 30% specialization.

Compare this to the energy cell perk, which boosts energy cell production of idle workers from 4 per minute to 12 per minute. If we assume an average price of $16 for energy cells, that's $192 per minute with the perk, and you need a level 5 sanctuary to take it. Now, energy cell production doesn't require a TS to run supplies, but even so it's really weak. Energy cell production on the order of about 60 per person per minute would bring profits on par with making weapons. That's a lot of energy.

If you'd rather compare the energy cell perk to the extra factories perk with factories committed to the supply chain for self-sufficient energy cell production, that perk is worth about 500 energy cells per minute, meaning that it's worse than the energy cell perk with a population of about 62 or more, and has startup and TS costs besides.

Tax at a level 5 sanctuary is a measly $50 per person per minute thanks to the revenue only generating every ten minutes. If taxes were capped at level 5, you could have it trigger every minute and still only get half as much as what you get from making weapons.

Making shields is surprisingly lossy. Without specialization, only the 1MJ shield can be manufactured at a profit. If you have 50% specialization you can make any shield at a profit, but it's nowhere near as profitable as making weapons. With recycling at 100% efficiency (which I do like, by the way) you can buy 1GJ shields for $275,235 and recycle them for $364,000 worth of materials.

One last thing: the station support footprint of a single solar power plant is huge. Running one in a really good sector takes about a dozen factories (costing ~$4.5 million total) to produce all the crystals needed, and after the energy costs of your various stages of crystal production are taken into account you're looking at about 1500 energy cells per minute excess. The whole thing pays for itself in about three hours, and you need a little over a third of your total infrastructure dedicated to energy cell production to keep other factories running.

What I suggest is using the smallest solar power plant for players and removing Crystals as a resource for them. Adjust the cost of the station so that it still pays for itself in about three hours. With an output of about 300 energy cells per minute, that would be about $864,000 worth of materials. Or you could cut the output and cost by half, thus keeping costs and output per station support similar to its present state, but simplifying the logistics and making it worthwhile to capture more than one high energy output sector. As it stands, I'd much rather have a dozen solar plants with the same combined cost and produce the same combined output as the dozen factories supporting one solar plant right now. It would just simplify things tremendously. I'm not sure if this is possible, since my only experience modding any of the X games was some work I did on the Firelance mod for X2 a dozen years ago.

Falcrack
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Post by Falcrack » Tue, 27. Mar 18, 15:04

I do agree with Pax that there is an insane amount of infrastructure needed for SPPs and the accompanying e-cell production. To top it off, so much of the e-cells produced by a single SPP simply goes to service the e-cell needs of the infrastructure needed to produce it, that there is just a relative small excess left over afterwards in order to run you other factories. For someone to become self-sufficient in everything, including e-cells, would require the majority of factories to be simply focused on the e-cell production chain.

Most people would therefore say "just buy e-cells". But if the goal is to become self-sufficient, that is not really a satisfactory answer! I too would support removing the player requirement for crystals at their SPPs as well. Crystals would still have an important role to play in making lasers.

I know this is beyond the scope of the mod, but if I were designing X3, e-cells would be reusable items which can carry a variable charge level, like modern rechargeable batteries. You could stop at an SPP, which produces energy without a resource requirement, to get them recharged, and take them to factories to transfer the energy inside them or use the energy for jumps. There would be a separate factory aside from the SPP which produces the e-cells, which would require crystals. But since we do not have this system, I would say just make e-cell production free, with a simple time component as the limiting factor.

Jonzac
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Post by Jonzac » Tue, 27. Mar 18, 20:00

I agree about ecells which is why I use the anarkis crystal free SSP script which I modified to make the conversion supper cheap.

Script does not interfere with Mayhem at att

VincentTH
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Post by VincentTH » Wed, 28. Mar 18, 18:48

Jonzac wrote:I agree about ecells which is why I use the anarkis crystal free SSP script which I modified to make the conversion supper cheap.

Script does not interfere with Mayhem at att
Do you know that you can turn your Sanctuary into an SPP and generate credits at the same time (1.5M CR per hour at level 9) (in MayHem that is)?

I used to be an advocate for free-crystal SPP, but with the new MayHem feature, there is no need for that.

Pax Empyrean
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Post by Pax Empyrean » Thu, 29. Mar 18, 00:01

VincentTH wrote:Do you know that you can turn your Sanctuary into an SPP and generate credits at the same time (1.5M CR per hour at level 9) (in MayHem that is)?

I used to be an advocate for free-crystal SPP, but with the new MayHem feature, there is no need for that.
The problem with using your sanctuary for energy cell production is that you could be building weapons instead and make a little over five times as much money.

The tax perk is a separate thing from energy cell production or manufacturing. You can collect taxes while manufacturing things.

How much does a level 9 sanctuary generate per person with taxes? If you get 1.5 million per hour at a level 9 sanctuary with 200 people, that's okay but not nearly what you get from manufacturing with just one perk. Building Mass Drivers nets you $285,594 per minute, or ~$17,135,000 per hour.

VincentTH
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Post by VincentTH » Thu, 29. Mar 18, 06:56

Pax Empyrean wrote:
VincentTH wrote:Do you know that you can turn your Sanctuary into an SPP and generate credits at the same time (1.5M CR per hour at level 9) (in MayHem that is)?

I used to be an advocate for free-crystal SPP, but with the new MayHem feature, there is no need for that.
The problem with using your sanctuary for energy cell production is that you could be building weapons instead and make a little over five times as much money.

The tax perk is a separate thing from energy cell production or manufacturing. You can collect taxes while manufacturing things.

How much does a level 9 sanctuary generate per person with taxes? If you get 1.5 million per hour at a level 9 sanctuary with 200 people, that's okay but not nearly what you get from manufacturing with just one perk. Building Mass Drivers nets you $285,594 per minute, or ~$17,135,000 per hour.
This thread talks about EC generation. The link between tax and EC generation is that they are tied to the population in the sanctuary. We are not talking about money generation per se. The problem with selling guns is that the buyers' capacity is limited by the availability of Equipment docks/Mil Outpost, as both weapon sinks would be devastated by faction war by the middle of the game.

The figure above are at level 9. I have not got an M2 in my game yet (4 day old game), but I expect the amount would be double that of level 9.

In addition, this scheme is expandable with the size of your empire, while the laser selling is limited to the availability of sinks as noted above.
(I am now holding 1000 EMPC which I cannot sell because I am at permanent war with the Terrans.) Thinking about sending them on a one way trip aboard a TS to the nearby Shipyard :-)

Hariwulf
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Post by Hariwulf » Sun, 1. Apr 18, 14:06

Vagrant and Normal Start my ship explodes right away. O.O
Same goes for the station I see in front of me.

Always spawned close to a red planet
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Joubarbe
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Post by Joubarbe » Sun, 1. Apr 18, 15:09

Did you rename both .cat/.dat files?

Hariwulf
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Post by Hariwulf » Sun, 1. Apr 18, 15:13

Yes. I only added:
IE
IEX
IEX LUV PATCH

Is one of these incompatible?
Hariwulf

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Joubarbe
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Post by Joubarbe » Sun, 1. Apr 18, 15:22

There's a "Compatibility" section in the install instructions.

They are all incompatible.

Hariwulf
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Post by Hariwulf » Sun, 1. Apr 18, 15:29

Then I am blind because I didn't notice where these Instructions are.
Sorry.

Any compatible "look overhaul"?
Hariwulf

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Joubarbe
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Post by Joubarbe » Sun, 1. Apr 18, 16:50

No, only IEX made those changes.

However, Mayhem has different backgrounds and suns (from vanilla stock). Not much, but it changes from the LUV sectors.

Hariwulf
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Post by Hariwulf » Sun, 1. Apr 18, 21:04

Thank you for your patience.

So, Resurrection Mod seems compatible.
IEX is not. Now, 2 questions:

1. What about IE (meaning: https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0)?

2 Anything (compatible) else that comes on top of your head?


Thank you. :)
Hariwulf

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