[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b
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The best use of the "add all default products" for me was to begin to build the "don't sell" list for my Dock Agents set to "sell" duties.
Nothing is more annoying than looking up after a battle, and wondering what happened to those brand new Concussion Impulse Generators than finding no sign of them but a DA Sell ship with the mission "returning to home base".
If such a command were to return: I would want "add all products" version. I only want my sell agents to have a specific limited selection at all times.
Nothing is more annoying than looking up after a battle, and wondering what happened to those brand new Concussion Impulse Generators than finding no sign of them but a DA Sell ship with the mission "returning to home base".
If such a command were to return: I would want "add all products" version. I only want my sell agents to have a specific limited selection at all times.
My "don't sell list" is to set all "don't sell" price to max. Equipment docks only buy at average prices!!!!!myrmidon wrote:The best use of the "add all default products" for me was to begin to build the "don't sell" list for my Dock Agents set to "sell" duties.
Nothing is more annoying than looking up after a battle, and wondering what happened to those brand new Concussion Impulse Generators than finding no sign of them but a DA Sell ship with the mission "returning to home base".
If such a command were to return: I would want "add all products" version. I only want my sell agents to have a specific limited selection at all times.
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all_other_names_taken
- Posts: 202
- Joined: Fri, 17. Dec 10, 16:04
Yea, but in order to set the price you need to have the product in the dock first. And if it's the first CIG you got hold of, you couldn't have set the price before that. Happened to me more times than I would have liked.VincentTH wrote:My "don't sell list" is to set all "don't sell" price to max. Equipment docks only buy at average prices!!!!!
That's why I don't use dock sellers any more. That, and the fact they're pretty dumb. They'll go sell two pieces of a missile to a race dock, come back, then go to the same dock to sell some other type of missile, instead of bringing at once everything that dock would buy.
I do it manually much quicker from time to time. Load everything I want to sell, then visit five race docks in turn.
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Lone Machete
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun, 3. Dec 17, 06:01
IMHO, they are 2 different games. The only things common are the universe map, the ships, and the guns/missiles. But then, the lasers will be changed again next release. (Personally, I found LU lasers boring: there are not much difference, just how strong etc.... Vanilla lasers have more specializations.Lone Machete wrote:Hey guys I'm about to start my first LU, i played Vanilla and XRM once before. Would you recommend playing LU without Mayhem first? I mean does it change gameplay severely enough to start another playthrou when i'm done with vanilla LU?
Mayhem is much harder IMHO , but playing LU first to get yourself familiar with MLCC, and the new ships may get you ready for MayHem
Does anyone have a survival guide to the recent versions? I managed fine around 2.1, but 2.2 wrecks me.
I started a new playthrough in 2.2.4. I kind of struggled through being completely crippled by there not being any Advanced sats available for early explorers, then got just barely enough UTs going to barely keep up with maintenance costs, then after a heroic effort to get some energy cells production going through buying crystals the universe ran out of crystals. So in an effort to get my own crystals going I captured too many sectors (I need 8 crystal fabs to be self-sufficient, since the average is around 9 factories per sector and one crystal fab needs the support of a cahoona bakery and cattle ranch it's one average sector to just support one SPP in Z alpha). Then the OCV spawned an M7, a handful of M6s and an assortment of other ships. I threw everything I had on them, but 18 of my M6s (all scavenged because I had LU bail rates, not Mayhem bail rates and definitely haven't had time to build my own) stood no chance against an OCV M7. So the OCV ate my SPP sector. I gave up, restored an earlier save, cheated in sufficient amount of firepower to kill the OCV and then did the math.
I need to have 5 sectors filled to the limit with factories to be barely self sufficient on energy cells and support one of each of the factories needed to build stations, ships and lasers (I'm scavenging shields and aren't even thinking about affording missiles at this point). That's sufficient to produce and outfit around 2 M3s per hour. The NPC economy doesn't help at all since it's not producing anything. There are no crystals, there are no quantum tubes, no computer components, no microchips, barely even any food, no weapons. Every equipment dock and military base is empty, many of them don't even have energy cells. And yes, at this point since I already cheated, I revealed the whole universe and wrote scripts to check if things aren't hidden anywhere, they aren't (the trade product search scripts are useless because they keep reporting that primary and secondary resources in factories are for sale). I tried to outfit a large OWP, the entire universe had 9 gauss cannons, 13 incendiary bomb launchers and 6 cluster flak array. I didn't do the math carefully, but it seems that one sector has enough production capacity to maybe outfit one OWP per 2-3 days (that's counting all supporting infrastructure for the whole production chain because as already mentioned the NPC economy is dead), and we're supposed to have up to 8 of them per sector? How is that possible? It's about a sector month of production for protecting a sector against attacks that come much more often than that. Btw. I also tried cheating in a fully armed large OWP when trying to stop the OCV wave, it had no effect, it scratched an M6 and lost all its 20 fighters killing 5 M4s despite being perfectly in the middle of their path, so I'm not sure OWPs are the answer.
I started a new playthrough. Cheated as hell, revealed the whole universe and cheated in advanced sats into each sector in the first minute, instead of relying on UTs I used OK Traders (which are vastly more efficient). No luck. I had 40 Drakes running universe traders and 40 Drakes running my own logistics, over a billion in my wallet with nothing to spend it on since the NPC economy just grinds to a halt and I still didn't have enough own production capacity to do anything about the first OCV wave. I even wrote my own management scripts to balance my own production and logistics to make sure to get it right.
Then I tried again (cheating once again with a fully revealed universe) plus a script I wrote to have an automatic claim ship which manages to claim pretty much every bailed ship. Not too cheaty, it needs to do all the things that would be required to do it manually, but it's fully automatic, including having captured TMs, M6s and M7s fly to nearest equipment dock to buy a jumpdrive, get fuel, jump to my scrapyard sanctuary and strip, all I need to do is to push the recycle button (in my own script which only shows ships with "- Stripped" in the name because I got tired of recycling my freighters all the time). So I get vastly more resources from that than intended, so much so that an Elephant running as a tug barely keeps up fetching all the claimed ships. This was still not enough to survive the first OCV wave.
What am I missing? There's a rocket equation going on where a vast majority of energy cell production goes into supporting energy cell production and the leftovers are barely enough to outfit 5% of the ships needed to counter the OCV which spawns too big ships in response to me having that much production going. I haven't tried the energy cell producing perk yet (I read the code, it seems to produce the equivalent to one SPP in Z alpha), but that means using up one perk slot per sanctuary, further reducing how fast I can build and arm defensive ships and also it requires higher threat, further increasing how hard I'll get hit. Or is it a bug that the NPC economy dies (it doesn't surprise me that it does considering all the carnage and considering that I hoover up all the energy cells and food early on)?
I started a new playthrough in 2.2.4. I kind of struggled through being completely crippled by there not being any Advanced sats available for early explorers, then got just barely enough UTs going to barely keep up with maintenance costs, then after a heroic effort to get some energy cells production going through buying crystals the universe ran out of crystals. So in an effort to get my own crystals going I captured too many sectors (I need 8 crystal fabs to be self-sufficient, since the average is around 9 factories per sector and one crystal fab needs the support of a cahoona bakery and cattle ranch it's one average sector to just support one SPP in Z alpha). Then the OCV spawned an M7, a handful of M6s and an assortment of other ships. I threw everything I had on them, but 18 of my M6s (all scavenged because I had LU bail rates, not Mayhem bail rates and definitely haven't had time to build my own) stood no chance against an OCV M7. So the OCV ate my SPP sector. I gave up, restored an earlier save, cheated in sufficient amount of firepower to kill the OCV and then did the math.
I need to have 5 sectors filled to the limit with factories to be barely self sufficient on energy cells and support one of each of the factories needed to build stations, ships and lasers (I'm scavenging shields and aren't even thinking about affording missiles at this point). That's sufficient to produce and outfit around 2 M3s per hour. The NPC economy doesn't help at all since it's not producing anything. There are no crystals, there are no quantum tubes, no computer components, no microchips, barely even any food, no weapons. Every equipment dock and military base is empty, many of them don't even have energy cells. And yes, at this point since I already cheated, I revealed the whole universe and wrote scripts to check if things aren't hidden anywhere, they aren't (the trade product search scripts are useless because they keep reporting that primary and secondary resources in factories are for sale). I tried to outfit a large OWP, the entire universe had 9 gauss cannons, 13 incendiary bomb launchers and 6 cluster flak array. I didn't do the math carefully, but it seems that one sector has enough production capacity to maybe outfit one OWP per 2-3 days (that's counting all supporting infrastructure for the whole production chain because as already mentioned the NPC economy is dead), and we're supposed to have up to 8 of them per sector? How is that possible? It's about a sector month of production for protecting a sector against attacks that come much more often than that. Btw. I also tried cheating in a fully armed large OWP when trying to stop the OCV wave, it had no effect, it scratched an M6 and lost all its 20 fighters killing 5 M4s despite being perfectly in the middle of their path, so I'm not sure OWPs are the answer.
I started a new playthrough. Cheated as hell, revealed the whole universe and cheated in advanced sats into each sector in the first minute, instead of relying on UTs I used OK Traders (which are vastly more efficient). No luck. I had 40 Drakes running universe traders and 40 Drakes running my own logistics, over a billion in my wallet with nothing to spend it on since the NPC economy just grinds to a halt and I still didn't have enough own production capacity to do anything about the first OCV wave. I even wrote my own management scripts to balance my own production and logistics to make sure to get it right.
Then I tried again (cheating once again with a fully revealed universe) plus a script I wrote to have an automatic claim ship which manages to claim pretty much every bailed ship. Not too cheaty, it needs to do all the things that would be required to do it manually, but it's fully automatic, including having captured TMs, M6s and M7s fly to nearest equipment dock to buy a jumpdrive, get fuel, jump to my scrapyard sanctuary and strip, all I need to do is to push the recycle button (in my own script which only shows ships with "- Stripped" in the name because I got tired of recycling my freighters all the time). So I get vastly more resources from that than intended, so much so that an Elephant running as a tug barely keeps up fetching all the claimed ships. This was still not enough to survive the first OCV wave.
What am I missing? There's a rocket equation going on where a vast majority of energy cell production goes into supporting energy cell production and the leftovers are barely enough to outfit 5% of the ships needed to counter the OCV which spawns too big ships in response to me having that much production going. I haven't tried the energy cell producing perk yet (I read the code, it seems to produce the equivalent to one SPP in Z alpha), but that means using up one perk slot per sanctuary, further reducing how fast I can build and arm defensive ships and also it requires higher threat, further increasing how hard I'll get hit. Or is it a bug that the NPC economy dies (it doesn't surprise me that it does considering all the carnage and considering that I hoover up all the energy cells and food early on)?
Instead of filling up several sectors in an attempt to make your own E cells, just buy them from the countless NPC factories that litter the universe. That saves loads of space to build actually useful things.
For money, remember missions are re-enabled.
For money, remember missions are re-enabled.
9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm crazy. The 10th is singing the music from Tetris
This auto-consumption shit is really stupid. In NPC docks, products are automatically consumed, and the consumption speed is always the same. So I'm gonna revert the change I did about maximum storage. NPC and Player docks will have the same values.
Besides, all Sanctuaries are going to make their own e-cells (1000 per minute), and the perk will triple this value.
Besides, all Sanctuaries are going to make their own e-cells (1000 per minute), and the perk will triple this value.
Aaah. That would explain why the economy disappears that fast. In basic LU when I buy my first TL I go to Jonferco and Atreus HQ to load up on crystals and quantum tubes for the plutarch tractor system, in 2.2.4 every time I did that they were completely empty (and an Elephant is usually the first ship I actively hunt down to scan, so I didn't delay that by much, I probably get them faster in Mayhem than the first TL in basic LU).Joubarbe wrote:This auto-consumption shit is really stupid. In NPC docks, products are automatically consumed, and the consumption speed is always the same. So I'm gonna revert the change I did about maximum storage. NPC and Player docks will have the same values.
60k per hour. Average support for a sector is 8.5. A typical factory eats 4500 per hour. That's a bit over 20k e-cells per sanctuary on average left over for fuel. Or, since I love the plutarch tractor system, leftovers from 5 sanctuaries are sufficient to feed one silicon mine (I guess should consider making them smaller than 600).Besides, all Sanctuaries are going to make their own e-cells (1000 per minute), and the perk will triple this value.
How do you keep them supplied? By the time the Dock Agent gets back home that mine should be dry again.Hegbork wrote:60k per hour. Average support for a sector is 8.5. A typical factory eats 4500 per hour. That's a bit over 20k e-cells per sanctuary on average left over for fuel. Or, since I love the plutarch tractor system, leftovers from 5 sanctuaries are sufficient to feed one silicon mine (I guess should consider making them smaller than 600).
9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm crazy. The 10th is singing the music from Tetris
A 600 yield mine can fit ~14 minutes worth of e-cells, or rather a Drake can feed it ~12 minutes in one go (and still have fuel left to go back home). Put the mine close to the center of the sector (for the quantum jumpgate extension), set the import threshold quite high and it's not a problem at all other than needing an SPP (actually closer to 1.4 SPP with all the e-cells required for the supporting factories and freighter fuel) in Z Alpha to keep it fed. I actually haven't though about it until you asked, IDN handles it just fine with the only adjustment that I had to fiddle the with import threshold (which by the way is too low on all factories by default).Sirrobert wrote: How do you keep them supplied? By the time the Dock Agent gets back home that mine should be dry again.
Joubarbe,Joubarbe wrote:This auto-consumption shit is really stupid. In NPC docks, products are automatically consumed, and the consumption speed is always the same. So I'm gonna revert the change I did about maximum storage. NPC and Player docks will have the same values.
Besides, all Sanctuaries are going to make their own e-cells (1000 per minute), and the perk will triple this value.
It sounds like you are adding automatic e-cell production to Sanctuaries, however, I would recommend the Ankaris Crystal Free SSP script or your own that removes the crystal requirement for SSPs.
I have it installed (with no issues) and it is a perfect balance of eCell production and build requirements. One SSP isn't enough to run a 12 station sector, but that is when a perk for eCell production would be useful. I like the fact that I have to spend a station slot for production, I need to spend time and resources to build it and then I need to move it around. I personally think is a perfect "middle ground" that makes Mayhem perfect.
Just a thought
@Hegbork: I think you must have had some serious drain of resources to build all that stations, to build more stations + the UTs, to support all those stations, which in turn need more stations (rocket equation at it's finest)
Those resources were missing to produce important stuff when the big "empty dock happening" occured.
For me the most important resources are the building materials, because you can make everything else out of them. Station slots are precious in the beginning, so it should be a 12 slot sector to start with. I also often dimantle factories if the stockpile of a certain good gets to big and replace it with something i need more at that time. (set DA to ignore station and rescue the leftover goods)
If you compare availability after the docks are empty there are 3 types of building materials
ENERGY - very common, full factories, still common in docks, can be bought easily
ORE - medium availability, empty docks, but full factories are common enough to buy it in quantity
CLOTH, RASTAR and TELADIANIUM - very rare, empty docks, empty factories, hard to get hold of large amounts fast
So my buildorder for the 1st sector is:
1: scruffin farm (because you need food and it's the cheapest, you can dismantle it later when you have thousands of them stored)
2: teladianium foundry (it only needs energy)
3: 1st cloth and rastar loop (4 stations)
4: 2nd teladianium foundry
5: 2nd cloth and rastar loop
6: 3rd teladianium foundry
Food: in my game (day 3, 6 sectors) meatsteaks and nostrop are plentyful in argon and teladi docks so i haven't build a single factory
Money wise i don't believe in UTs and haven't used them. The corporate missions give plenty in the beginning. Execute triggers like half an hour for 1 free million. Collect yields like 13 mil for a small reputation penalty. Steal often gives a ship with weapons worth 3 million for free.
Even now i can balance out my expenses with missions (defend, destroy, weaken) but have claimed a mining sector recently to generate passive income.
The reap shuttle to salvage is day one's number two priority after the scruffin farm. When i saw an invasion i instantly dropped a satellite and also one on each race border with xenon, yaki, pirates. Some capital weapons from invasion leftovers - another 4 million for free.
The tech ship parts (chip, computer, tubes) can be tricky because when you start to need much of them they are already drained from the docks and factories are always low on stock. So it's better to make sure you produce all three of them, even if it's on low quantity.
The trade run command can help here. Ships will automatically refuel and try to collect all those little stocks and squeeze as much as possible out of the economy. It's expensive, but you can get quite a bit and it works for shields, satellites and lasers too.
Oh, and if you want to produce lasers and missles - build BOFU loops like crazy! I'm almost dedicated to put 6 bofu labs exclusively in a single sector
Those resources were missing to produce important stuff when the big "empty dock happening" occured.
For me the most important resources are the building materials, because you can make everything else out of them. Station slots are precious in the beginning, so it should be a 12 slot sector to start with. I also often dimantle factories if the stockpile of a certain good gets to big and replace it with something i need more at that time. (set DA to ignore station and rescue the leftover goods)
If you compare availability after the docks are empty there are 3 types of building materials
ENERGY - very common, full factories, still common in docks, can be bought easily
ORE - medium availability, empty docks, but full factories are common enough to buy it in quantity
CLOTH, RASTAR and TELADIANIUM - very rare, empty docks, empty factories, hard to get hold of large amounts fast
So my buildorder for the 1st sector is:
1: scruffin farm (because you need food and it's the cheapest, you can dismantle it later when you have thousands of them stored)
2: teladianium foundry (it only needs energy)
3: 1st cloth and rastar loop (4 stations)
4: 2nd teladianium foundry
5: 2nd cloth and rastar loop
6: 3rd teladianium foundry
Food: in my game (day 3, 6 sectors) meatsteaks and nostrop are plentyful in argon and teladi docks so i haven't build a single factory
Money wise i don't believe in UTs and haven't used them. The corporate missions give plenty in the beginning. Execute triggers like half an hour for 1 free million. Collect yields like 13 mil for a small reputation penalty. Steal often gives a ship with weapons worth 3 million for free.
Even now i can balance out my expenses with missions (defend, destroy, weaken) but have claimed a mining sector recently to generate passive income.
The reap shuttle to salvage is day one's number two priority after the scruffin farm. When i saw an invasion i instantly dropped a satellite and also one on each race border with xenon, yaki, pirates. Some capital weapons from invasion leftovers - another 4 million for free.
The tech ship parts (chip, computer, tubes) can be tricky because when you start to need much of them they are already drained from the docks and factories are always low on stock. So it's better to make sure you produce all three of them, even if it's on low quantity.
The trade run command can help here. Ships will automatically refuel and try to collect all those little stocks and squeeze as much as possible out of the economy. It's expensive, but you can get quite a bit and it works for shields, satellites and lasers too.
Oh, and if you want to produce lasers and missles - build BOFU loops like crazy! I'm almost dedicated to put 6 bofu labs exclusively in a single sector
I'm not a big fan of this solution. A better solution is to have a good logistics system to handle the e-cells distribution. And I'm working on that. Maybe I'm wrongJonzac wrote:Joubarbe,Joubarbe wrote:This auto-consumption shit is really stupid. In NPC docks, products are automatically consumed, and the consumption speed is always the same. So I'm gonna revert the change I did about maximum storage. NPC and Player docks will have the same values.
Besides, all Sanctuaries are going to make their own e-cells (1000 per minute), and the perk will triple this value.
It sounds like you are adding automatic e-cell production to Sanctuaries, however, I would recommend the Ankaris Crystal Free SSP script or your own that removes the crystal requirement for SSPs.
I have it installed (with no issues) and it is a perfect balance of eCell production and build requirements. One SSP isn't enough to run a 12 station sector, but that is when a perk for eCell production would be useful. I like the fact that I have to spend a station slot for production, I need to spend time and resources to build it and then I need to move it around. I personally think is a perfect "middle ground" that makes Mayhem perfect.
Just a thought
I can say for sure that if I do a Mayhem 3, the jumpdrive will be removed from the game. This thing is not a good idea, especially with Mayhem, where it's all about conquering sectors. I imagine scouts and real defense; not some magic teleportation from anywhere. I'm saying this, because handling logistics without jumpdrive will sure be a challenge.
The vast majority of my time in X games has been with a no-jumpdrive rule for my ships (on top of others like no-strafe and such), so I think that is a great idea. The main problem I've had with complete removal is that a lot of the NPC military scripts strongly rely on a jumpdrive to get around, so rapid response forces and such end up taking many hours to respond to incursions and often die along the way. I don't know how much that would be an issue for LU/Mayhem.Joubarbe wrote:I can say for sure that if I do a Mayhem 3, the jumpdrive will be removed from the game.