Ship Tricks: Mini-Guides. NO 3D modeling required! (Bullwinkle) [Guide][TC][AP]

[Koritnaciino]

Hello drBullwinkle. I have stupid problem with one of the ship. The hangar dont want rotate X an Y axis. I spend loots of time on that problem and still nothing.
Axis Z working well. Actualy If I setup Z axis >0 then X,Y working well. If I setup axis Z=0 then X,Y not working. Z have to be 0 because I need docking from the back side of the ship.

Code: Select all

P 35; B 19099; C 1; N B19099_0; b // idx 35
	{ 0x2002;  0; -354500; 290500;  0.000000; 0.000000; -1.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

Do you have any idea where can be problem please?

EDIT: One more question. Do you know if is possible adjust launch railway? Problem is that ship after start keeping railway very short time and after that going trough hull plate. (probably because of safety udnocking or something)

[jccpsc]

Hello drBullwinkle. I have stupid problem with one of the ship. The hangar dont want rotate X an Y axis. I spend loots of time on that problem and still nothing.
Axis Z working well. Actualy If I setup Z axis >0 then X,Y working well. If I setup axis Z=0 then X,Y not working. Z have to be 0 because I need docking from the back side of the ship.

Code: Select all

P 35; B 19099; C 1; N B19099_0; b // idx 35
	{ 0x2002;  0; -354500; 290500;  0.000000; 0.000000; -1.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

Do you have any idea where can be problem please?

EDIT: One more question. Do you know if is possible adjust launch railway? Problem is that ship after start keeping railway very short time and after that going trough hull plate. (probably because of safety udnocking or something)

Hi

I think if you just rotate the X or the Y 180º it will be faced back and you dont need to rotate the Z axis.
Regardind to launch railway you'll have to mess with the dummies file and it's not easy.

JCC

[Koritnaciino]

Hello drBullwinkle. I have stupid problem with one of the ship. The hangar dont want rotate X an Y axis. I spend loots of time on that problem and still nothing.
Axis Z working well. Actualy If I setup Z axis >0 then X,Y working well. If I setup axis Z=0 then X,Y not working. Z have to be 0 because I need docking from the back side of the ship.

Code: Select all

P 35; B 19099; C 1; N B19099_0; b // idx 35
	{ 0x2002;  0; -354500; 290500;  0.000000; 0.000000; -1.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

Do you have any idea where can be problem please?

EDIT: One more question. Do you know if is possible adjust launch railway? Problem is that ship after start keeping railway very short time and after that going trough hull plate. (probably because of safety udnocking or something)

Hi

I think if you just rotate the X or the Y 180º it will be faced back and you dont need to rotate the Z axis.
Regardind to launch railway you'll have to mess with the dummies file and it's not easy.

JCC

Sorry I can not agree with you. Z-axis 0.000000 is faced back. Z-axis 0.500000 is faced front. If you rotate X or Y axis 180degree then you will docking face down. And how I said if I set Z-axis 0.000000 then X and Y I can set whatever its without reaction. The hangar always faced back in position x 0.00000 y 0.000000

Still thx for help.

[jccpsc]

Hello drBullwinkle. I have stupid problem with one of the ship. The hangar dont want rotate X an Y axis. I spend loots of time on that problem and still nothing.
Axis Z working well. Actualy If I setup Z axis >0 then X,Y working well. If I setup axis Z=0 then X,Y not working. Z have to be 0 because I need docking from the back side of the ship.

Code: Select all

P 35; B 19099; C 1; N B19099_0; b // idx 35
	{ 0x2002;  0; -354500; 290500;  0.000000; 0.000000; -1.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

Do you have any idea where can be problem please?

EDIT: One more question. Do you know if is possible adjust launch railway? Problem is that ship after start keeping railway very short time and after that going trough hull plate. (probably because of safety udnocking or something)

Hi

I think if you just rotate the X or the Y 180º it will be faced back and you dont need to rotate the Z axis.
Regardind to launch railway you'll have to mess with the dummies file and it's not easy.

JCC

Sorry I can not agree with you. Z-axis 0.000000 is faced back. Z-axis 0.500000 is faced front. If you rotate X or Y axis 180degree then you will docking face down. And how I said if I set Z-axis 0.000000 then X and Y I can set whatever its without reaction. The hangar always faced back in position x 0.00000 y 0.000000

Still thx for help.

Yeh you maybe right

Try to open the Ódin and see how it's made, cause the Ódin has na Hangar faced back.

Code of Ódin...

Code: Select all

P 2; B 19027; N 19027; b // idx 2
{ 0x2002;  0; -93634; -134348;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

JCC

[Gohr]

First of all. Thanks for this wonderful guide. It helped me a lot with some 'tinkering' of my x3tc install. One thing though: Please add the line that only newly bought/spawned/build ships are changed somewhere in your 'external docking bay' part of the guide because I spent the better part of an evening wondering why my TS just waited behind my TL. Perhaps I'm a moron for not knowing that fact or I haven't seen it in your posts, but I was close to giving up on adding external docking bays before I tried that out .

Now a related question. Can you change the path a ship takes while docking? I could fix some of my problems with input from Cattafetts Mod locations but some ships still 'enter' their mothership before reaching external docking bay.

e.g.: TS docking at Orca flys through its 'belly' before reaching the docking port. It's no major problem as there's no collision but I don't find it aesthetically pleasing. What I'd like to do would be a parking animation for TS in this little opening at the Orca's belly which is practically crying to be used as docking port .
I've made a little paint doodle (which will make things only harder to understand ^^) showing what i mean.

[ external image ]

[DrBullwinkle]

You are welcome, Gohr. I am glad that you found the guide helpful!

Instructions for testing your modified ship are craftily hidden in the section: Testing Your Modded Ship.

I'm not sure what you are trying to indicate in your drawing, but I believe that you can change the flight path by changing the orientation of the dock. It should be the second set of numbers in the scene file; after the dock's position. As far as I know, the path for any dock has only a single "leg" (meaning that you cannot have a turn in the approach or departure path).

[Gohr]

Ahhh, 2nd page .

Now to my 'masterful' drawing: What I meant is that I have a docking port at the bottom of the ship (in this case Orca) in a little recess. Now i want my docking ship to fly to the belly of the Orca and afterwards dock in the recess by moving backwards.
As far as I understood your post, this isn't possible, so I already changed the docking positions a little bit and now I have quite a nice docking path 'in a single run' (thank you gmax ^^).

Right now I'm tinkering with the idea to change M2/M1 turrets to make them vulnerable to fighter wings and fit more in the role of a 'capital eater' or 'corvette destroyer' (perhaps I'll change M7 a bit too to put them in line). As I see it, turret speed is dependent on weapons loadout, so I don't think I can change turn speed without affecting other 'turreted' ships.
Most likely, I'll remove flak, CIG, etc. from most capital ships and just leave them with HEPTs or IREs as 'small guns' to allow for the occasional hit and basic missile defense. Apart from that I'm thinking about leaving 1 or 2 M7s with Flak, etc., but reducing turn speed and/or damage of these things.
In my 'ideal' world, X3 fighter wings (especially bombers) would be the hard counter for most capital ships but some specialized 'Flak-Frigates' or perhaps 'anti-fighter-Corvettes' so that there's a reason to have a mixed force with some nice dogfights at least IS (I know OOS it's just firepower + shield > all). Right now, flying in an M2, I feel like a moving battering ram exterminating all foes (Khaak can be tricky, though, if they come in force). Having Flaks and CIGs interchangable (MEFOS) in most of my turrets essentially negate anything smaller than an M6 (and they don't take the heat that well too) and I think I don't have to tell you about dumb enemy M2 or M1s.
Only thing bugging me right now is that enemy M1s don't really fill their role as Carriers really well because I've never seen them launch real fighter wing assaults. Most of the time they only function as a dumbed down M2.

Gohr

[DrBullwinkle]

Ahhh, 2nd page .

Yes... Also craftily hidden in the index in the first post.

As far as I understood your post, this isn't possible

Yes, as far as I know, the path used for any dock cannot have a turn in it.

In my 'ideal' world, X3 fighter wings (especially bombers) would be the hard counter for most capital ships

Yes, I like that idea as well.

Your idea of giving only fighter weapons to M1/M2's may run into trouble because their range is shorter than the ship itself. Even with long-range flak cannons, some ships (like Kyoto and maybe Python?) have difficulty providing missile defense to the entire ship. Thank goodness for Mosquito Missile Defense!

An alternative would be to allow flak cannons but reduce the number of them.

I think that your concept would work fine OOS. Capital ships would be unable to destroy each other, although they could launch bombers which *could* destroy them. So OOS battles would change from capital-ship-dominance to missile dominance. It could work... let me know if you try it!

enemy M1s don't really fill their role as Carriers really well because I've never seen them launch real fighter wing assaults. Most of the time they only function as a dumbed down M2.

Agreed. The best enemy carrier action I have seen came from combining Anarkis Defense System with Yaki Armada 2. It would be nice if other enemies could use ADS in the same way, although that might require a lot of work to develop.

[Gohr]

Nono, you misunderstood. I'd leave Capitals with their 'Big Guns' but remove all fighter defense but standard fighter weapons (so no cluster flak, etc.). That way they are still a 'soft' counter against other capitals (both can win), whereas a squad of fighters or bombers are hard counter and therefore hard to kill for the Cap. For missile defense we still have Mosquitos but I'd need to test the other Lasers for capability to shoot down heavy-payload missiles.

I just made a plan for M1/M2/M7: M1/M2 get all AoE removed. M7 I categorize in 'Assault Frigates' and 'Flak Frigates'. Basically I'll leave all M7 untouched but Split Panter, Argon Griffon, Paranid Deimos and ATF Aegir. In return for usage of race specifc AoEs (e.g. CIG is Paranid-specific), I'll reduce shielding and/or Laser banks for the Commonwealth ships. Aegir on the other hand reatins full stock of guns and a healthy 4 GJ of shield in exchange for slower and energy hungry SSC to put it in a line with Terran Capitals and their PSPs. As a result, all but the Terran M7 'Flak Frigates' should be fairly vulnerable to M6 or concentrated M3+ fire and only a mere nuissance for M2s. Squads of M3, though, will get ripped apart.

Another thing I've thought about is the realtive weakness of Missiles compared to Lasers. Right now, a full salvo of HEPTs from a Nova exterminates or severly cripples most of other Fighters. Fun fact is, that I packed my Split Tiger with 8 PBGs and could rip through M7 shields with those tiny drops ^^. When talking about Gauss Cannons and PPC, most shields are basically non-existent. I'm still tinkering with the numbers but I guess a reduction of 1:5 or 1:10 would probably fix it in that way, that a single M3 can't really put a dent in M7+ shields whereas in Dogfights there's no 1-hit-kills but for the tiny M5s. How this fares with Flak arrays on 'Flak Frigates' I'm not really sure, but I can always change their parameters .

For Missiles I'm thinking about improving their speed and maneuverability so that they can actually catch enemy fighters (especially if they have no back-mounted turret). Another problem of course is that most missiles are blown in your face. I've absolutely no idea how to change that but perhaps there are already some scripts/mods around in the froums.

I think this week I'll backup my save and experiment a little bit with ship changes. As I dislike the vanilla turrets, I'll do all the tests with MEFOS or MARS. Ultimate challenge, ofc, would be CODEA Carrier against MARS Flak Frigates .

enemy M1s don't really fill their role as Carriers really well because I've never seen them launch real fighter wing assaults. Most of the time they only function as a dumbed down M2.

Agreed. The best enemy carrier action I have seen came from combining Anarkis Defense System with Yaki Armada 2. It would be nice if other enemies could use ADS in the same way, although that might require a lot of work to develop.

That one is intriguing ... to say the least.

[unity100]

================================================
A word about File "Precedence" (Yes it is geeky, but you should know this)
================================================
Precedence is the way that a computer knows which thing to use, when there is more than one possible thing.

The computer uses the thing that has the highest precedence.

In X3, file precedence goes like this:

- Files in higher-numbered .cat files have higher precedence over the same-named files in lower-numbered .cat's.

- "Loose" files on your hard drive have precedence over files in .cat's.

- Packed files (.pck) on your hard drive have the highest precedence.

- The game will always use the highest-precedent file.

does this mean that ;

if we have a 05.cat under x3root\addon folder

and a 11.cat under x3root folder,

11.cat will take precedence, even if we are playing addon ? shouldnt the file in addon directory take precedence ?

[DrBullwinkle]

shouldnt the file in addon directory take precedence ?

Yes, it does.

[unity100]

shouldnt the file in addon directory take precedence ?

Yes, it does.

well, then that's my problem.

im using xrm, and the edits which have done to tcockpits.pck file for weapon compatibilities, are in this file (05.cat's tcockpits.pck).

but, despite these edits show up in game, if i add any value or change any of the existing values to test, it doesnt show up in game !!!

[DrBullwinkle]

despite these edits show up in game, if i add any value or change any of the existing values to test, it doesnt show up in game !!!

Your edits show up in the game but they do not show up in the game?

[unity100]

despite these edits show up in game, if i add any value or change any of the existing values to test, it doesnt show up in game !!!

Your edits show up in the game but they do not show up in the game?

no no :

if i edit tcockpits.pck in x3root\addon\05.cat , they do NOT show in the game.

if i edit tcockpits.pck in x3root\11.cat, they DO show up in the game.

[DrBullwinkle]

I do not know why you experience that, but here are some tips:

• Always Open from VFS (or use the Cat Manager tool which opens from VFS). That way, you know that you are looking at the file that the game will use.
• When you edit a file, do not save it back into its original .cat. If you do, then you will lose your edits the next time you update that .cat. Instead, create a new .cat, or save the file directly on your hard drive as suggested by several of the tutorials.

[unity100]

I do not know why you experience that, but here are some tips:

• Always Open from VFS (or use the Cat Manager tool which opens from VFS). That way, you know that you are looking at the file that the game will use.
• When you edit a file, do not save it back into its original .cat. If you do, then you will lose your edits the next time you update that .cat. Instead, create a new .cat, or save the file directly on your hard drive as suggested by several of the tutorials.

doing it through vfs worked, ty.

i wasnt able to make the game use my mods when i saved them as separate tcockpits.pck files, but i just overwrote the files in vfs and made it work.

[unity100]

im trying to make own my .cat file, but i am not able to do this through x3 editor 2. i have searched a few threads and did what they say - placed it as tships.pck in root folder, addon folder. placed it under a mods folder. saved it as .txt file - no go.

i learned that x3 editor 2 cannot create .cat files. is that true ? if it can im going to try doing my mod into a cat file and try like that.

[X2-Illuminatus]

That's not true. In X3 Editor 2 select File -> New Catalog, enter a name and your new (empty) cat/dat pair is ready.

[unity100]

That's not true. In X3 Editor 2 select File -> New Catalog, enter a name and your new (empty) cat/dat pair is ready.

i dont have any entry for 'New Catalog' under File menu in my x3 editor 2. im using version 2.0.26.0. neither do i have it in any of the menus under x3 editor 2.

[X2-Illuminatus]

Under 'Plugins' select the 'Cat Manager'. Then it should work.