[LIST] Streamlining X3 with ease of use modifications

[DrBullwinkle]

Yes, if you get it running properly, then you should definitely post it.

Wares written for an older version of EMP -- that would explain why I could never get them to work correctly.

script cache is a nightmare.

Do you mean for switching between Exscriptor and the SE? If you Alt-Tab out of the game, then edit in Exscriptor, you have to reload a saved game before you will be able to see your edits in the SE.

[Teleth]

Hmm, this still isn't working. I've little idea why.
I still don't get any menu. It does say it installed (which is obviously not very helpful but yeah)
Maybe I need to modify setup.jd.delivery.lv ..

edit:
PAINFUL. Must have wasted hours now.
I had begun to suspect the command id was conflicting with XRM or something.

Wish I had found this out sooner:
WARNING: Any custom commands between 1300-1400 will not work in Albion Prelude (these slots are not taken by the fleet command menu)

Upgrade Kits uses 1312.

Fixed version X3TC/X3AP compatible v2

[DrBullwinkle]

Good work, Teleth!

A few hours is a small investment for discovering a TC-AP compatibility issue that is not all that well known (unless you just happen to read the scripts index for fun). Good catch on the command conflict. Don't forget to register your new command.

We should figure out how wares are supposed to work, so that we can fix that part, too. Otherwise, this will not help the non-scripting crowd much.

Two small nits:

- You should probably include LV's Readme. Maybe add your own name and change history.

- The folder is "scripts", not "script". I am guessing that you did not use the PM to test this.

When this is working for everyone, one of us should post it on the X3 Google Code Site so that there will be no dead links anytime soon. If you do it, be sure to name it similar to LV's version, increment the version number, and add LV's tag (plus your own). Or I can do it for you, if you prefer.

Also, you should comment your changes. MCSI scripts do not diff easily.

[Teleth]

We should figure out how wares are supposed to work, so that we can fix that part, too. Otherwise, this will not help the non-scripting crowd much.

It should be working correctly. The T file overwrites the #EMP ware number. It's then referenced in the script via string so it should be fine so long as the user has EMP installed.

- You should probably include LV's Readme. Maybe add your own name and change history.

Done.

- The folder is "scripts", not "script". I am guessing that you did not use the PM to test this.

Yeah I'm not sure how I pulled this one off, I'm glad you caught it. Fixed.
Anyone who grabbed the original X3TC/X3AP compatible version will need to get version2; or drag the scripts from 'script' to your 'scripts' folder!

When this is working for everyone, one of us should post it on the X3 Google Code Site so that there will be no dead links anytime soon. If you do it, be sure to name it similar to LV's version, increment the version number, and add LV's tag (plus your own). Or I can do it for you, if you prefer.

You're welcome to, though the mediafire links should not die anytime soon. All of my mods have been hosted there for several years; I'll re-upload all of them should they go down.

[DrBullwinkle]

[The custom ware] should be working correctly. The T file overwrites the #EMP ware number.

Yeah, I just figured that out a couple of hours ago. The system is simple enough. I guess I did not understand t files well enough when I first tried to understand EMP.

With that piece of the puzzle in place, EMP is making more sense to me now.

But why did we both initially have problems with the custom ware?

Re: Changes: It looks as though you changed the t file and three lines in setup.jd.delivery.lv.xml. Is that right?

[Teleth]

[The custom ware] should be working correctly. The T file overwrites the #EMP ware number.

Yeah, I just figured that out a couple of hours ago. The system is simple enough. I guess I did not understand t files well enough when I first tried to understand EMP.

With that piece of the puzzle in place, EMP is making more sense to me now.

But why did we both initially have problems with the custom ware?

Re: Changes: It looks as though you changed the t file and three lines in setup.jd.delivery.lv.xml. Is that right?

I made hundreds of changes and reverted hundreds of times; there's no use asking me haha.
What should be changed:

T file:
<t id="1412">
anything referencing 1312 was changed to 1412

setup.jd.delivery.lv.xml:
add ship custom command: id=1312 to 1412

setup.deliver.jd.install.xml:
anything labelled {?} or EMP_112** to "Upgrade kit"

That should cover everything I believe. It is not even worth documenting. (only that it is now using command 1412.. it's not my job to update other's mods however, so I leave it up to the creator to sort out when/if they return to the script)

On a side note, CSecG, Version 1 works with AP/XRM. Version 3 seems to use non-EMP wares and adds them manually; I'm not going there in my current game.
I'm going to modify V1 a bit, remove the debug stuff from menus and reduce the energy cell production slightly, I will also add weak cell production to TS/TP/TM class ships. Modification of V1 will only be posted here however as I don't have the author's permission.

[DrBullwinkle]

setup.deliver.jd.install.xml:
anything labelled {?} or EMP_112** to "Upgrade kit"

Ooh... is that really right?

That is what I did, and I always assumed that would work only on *my* game. Otherwise, why would it be broken?

It is not even worth documenting.

It is *always* worth documenting. Has nobody ever mentioned that to you?

For example, I have to merge your changes with mine. A comment with your initials would have made that easier. However, Exscriptor's diff view worked. This time. But it might not be sufficient if either of us had made major changes.

I agree about CSecG 3. Most of LA's latest versions are unfinished. I use v2, but v1 should be fine. He has not been around recently... probably found something interesting to do in real life. He did register his blanket permission in the 3rd Party Permissions Index, so feel free to update his stuff. Just say, "thank you".

[Teleth]

setup.deliver.jd.install.xml:
anything labelled {?} or EMP_112** to "Upgrade kit"

Ooh... is that really right?

That is what I did, and I always assumed that would work only on *my* game. Otherwise, why would it be broken?

I assume it is because EMP used to work slightly differently, otherwise I really am not sure.
You're welcome to dig further but I have more mods to tweak.

I'm sure someone will complain if it doesn't work haha. It's a string identifier rather than an ID now so I don't think there's any way it could break other than having other wares named 'Upgrade kit'.

[DrBullwinkle]

It's a string identifier rather than an ID now

What do you mean by "string identifier" and "ID"? They seem the same to me (=11313). What are your definitions?

I assume it is because EMP used to work slightly differently

Perhaps. I think the mechanism for EMP is the same; only the number of wares has changed.

The real code in MCSI .xml's is still a bit of a mystery to me. If I understand correctly, the game ignores the sourcetext and sourceplaintext tags, and works directly from the codearray tag. If we compare that, then the changes that you and I made changed an integer from 1048814 to 1048816. We both made the exact same change to the ware.

So, even though it appears as "Upgrade Kit" in the Script Editor, the "real" value is an integer. The string "Upgrade Kit" is the same in all three versions (yours, mine, and LV's). But the string itself is just there for humans.

I think.

Sooooo.... what, exactly, did we change?

[Teleth]

It's a string identifier rather than an ID now

What do you mean by "string identifier" and "ID"? They seem the same to me (=11313). What are your definitions?

Yeah by the looks of it, it totally is not a string. The CDATA is probably what is displayed in the editor, while the XML arrays are the *compiled* code.

Sooooo.... what, exactly, did we change?

I really don't want to break out winmerge to find out; but didn't we just change the ware identifier 1048814 to 1048816?

edit: perhaps 1048814 is illegal with the new EMP? if 1048814 is just a randomish identifier, it would be a bit odd if both of our installations came to the same id conclusion. You aren't running AP right?

[DrBullwinkle]

The CDATA is probably what is displayed in the editor, while the XML arrays are the *compiled* code.

I believe so, yes.

didn't we just change the ware identifier 1048814 to 1048816?

Probably, yes. I suppose that could be consistent with the idea that EMP changed. It is encouraging that our independent changes produced identical results.

As you said, we should get some feedback from testers.

[DrBullwinkle]

perhaps 1048814 is illegal with the new EMP?

Or maybe just different.

You mentioned ZA_EMP_11293_BLANK_WARE_CUSTOM5_7. I, too, saw that in-game before I fixed the ware.

When I look at 0999-L044.xml, I see that 11313 should be ZA_EMP_11293_BLANK_WARE_CUSTOM7_7. That could be consistent with 1048814 vs 1048816.

if 1048814 is just a randomish identifier, it would be a bit odd if both of our installations came to the same id conclusion.

Or, in other words, it is probably not random. Yeah, I agree.

You aren't running AP right?

Right. I am still waiting for the non-Steam version.

[Teleth]

There are now two versions of the re-balance.

Rebalance of Logain's E-Cell Generator Version 1

Generator speeds
------------------
M6/M8: 8/minute was 20/minute
TS/TP/TM: 6/minute was 0/minute
M7: 10/minute was 30/minute
M2: 12/minute was 40/minute
TL: 10/minute was 35/minute
M1: 40/minute was 40/minute

It's possible they are still too high but won't be outproducing your solar plants anytime soon. I decided to keep the carrier generating at high levels as it fulfills support roles.

Rebalance of Logain's E-Cell Generator Version 1-II
Version II features a lower production speed, ensuring energy cells are still an important commodity for long distance jumping. Carriers are still highly productive.

Each generation cycle is two minutes long, rather than one minute.
M6/M8: 3/cycle
TS/TP/TM: 2/cycle
M7: 6/cycle
M2: 8/cycle
TL: 6/cycle
M1: 40/cycle

To give an example of generator speeds in version II:
M6 will extend jump range once every eight minutes.
M2 will extend jump range once every six minutes.

Right. I am still waiting for the non-Steam version.

If you weren't aware (you probably are), there is a no-steam executable for X3AP, unless you were after the DVD or don't have highspeed broadband.

[DrBullwinkle]

CSecG: Sounds good. I forget what I did not like about v1, but you probably fixed it.

Awareness: Yes, I am aware, but it doesn't really solve the major issues, does it? In any case, it is a forbidden topic, so probably best to talk about something else.

[Teleth]

Awareness: Yes, I am aware, but it doesn't really solve the major issues, does it? In any case, it is a forbidden topic, so probably best to talk about something else.

Why is it a forbidden topic if it is offered on Egosoft's website?

edit: http://www.egosoft.com/download/x3ap/bonus_en.php

[DrBullwinkle]

Why is it a forbidden topic?

Beats me *shrug*. It just is. Discuss what is wrong with it and they will lock the thread.

[Teleth]

Hmm, in commemoration of fixing mods, I propose I don't play the game and continue to add more!

I've moved from editing RandomSectorManagement to the unfocussed jumpdrive sector. Would like to restore Kha'ak encounters here among other things.

The MD script looks particularly vexing.. I honestly have no idea how Egosoft worked with this stuff, it's worse than assembly.
Maybe I should start by trying to modify the generics.. provided I can find where they are stored of course.

DrBullwinkle, are there any other good mods that come to mind that you would like to get working?

[LordGaara]

Hey guys,

Just a couple of suggestions.

Complex Cleaner/ Modular Complexes by Gazz. I am getting some kind of a compatibility issue with AP2.0 + XRM.

and concerning some salvage and fun as you requested Teleth:

Debris Repair and Utilization:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=232573
There is some kind of model issue which prevents it from working in AP2.0+XRM as far as I understand.

Would like to restore Kha'ak encounters here among other things

Awesome!

Cheers,
Martin

[Teleth]

Hey guys,

Just a couple of suggestions.

Complex Cleaner/ Modular Complexes by Gazz. I am getting some kind of a compatibility issue with AP2.0 + XRM.

Are you sure its either AP/XRM?
It says in the XRM post that: This mod is 100% compatible with Complex Cleaner.
What exactly is wrong?
I don't use CC because I have FDNL, and intend to spread my factories over 3 sectors.

Debris Repair and Utilization:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=232573
There is some kind of model issue which prevents it from working in AP2.0+XRM as far as I understand.

I did have a look at this earlier, but it seemed a bit incomplete, I'm also not really far along enough in my game for it. Model issues are completely outside of my expertise also. Do you have a link to the post that identifies the problem? or know a bit more about it?

It's safe to say I still know next to nothing about X3 modding but I'm getting there..

[DrBullwinkle]

I propose I don't play the game and continue to add more!

Yes, that sounds logical.

The MD script looks particularly vexing.. I honestly have no idea how Egosoft worked with this stuff, it's worse than assembly.

I suppose it helps if you are fluent in German and guys like Xenon_Slayer and Ketraar are just down the hall.

I find it quite foreign, myself. Some of that is due to the fact that the docs do not adequately discuss how to write a script. The MCSI manual is awesome, but the MD manual leaves many questions unanswered.

Interestingly, some people that you would not think of as serious programmers seem able to handle the MD. Perhaps they have less to un-learn?

A special-purpose MD editor would help. XML was designed to be a data transfer language, for machine-to-machine communication. It was never intended to be written with a text editor. That just complicates the already-different-way-of-thinking that the MD requires.

Also, most of the MD scripts that I have seen have been lightly documented (or undocumented). That does not help the learning curve.

the generics.. provided I can find where they are stored

THAT is something that I can help with:

director\3.01 Generic Missions.xml

are there any other good mods that come to mind that you would like to get working?

As a matter of fact, yes. I have wanted to do major surgery on Logain Industries Light Support Drone Carrier (LSDC). I have hacked it enough to make it work, but it has an architectural flaw that I have yet to solve properly. It also has a lot of weird complications that I want to remove.

My Griffon (from the Final Fury plot) was just aching for the proper software to support its drone-carrier intended role. My hack does the job, but it would be easy to abuse.

So it needs work, but it should be do-able.

Another thing that I would like to see is a different cut at RRF/IR/MBRR. I like the part where there are more challenging reactions to the player's actions, but I hate the NPC-vs-NPC performance drain, and I hate the fact that those scripts do more to make race relations challenging than they do to make combat challenging. However, I have the feeling that that project might be quite a big one. And, for sure, I do not know enough about race relations to even attempt it.