[SCR] [X3:TC/AP] [v1.8.9.8] [11/16/2019] MK3 Improvement Reloaded

Danubian · Post by **Danubian** » Wed, 8. Feb 12, 11:30

Ive got another question for you:

Did you change in any way the AI transport ship routine, you know, all the energy, food, high tech etc transports flying around on their own?

3 days later into the game (altho mostly in SETA) i have over 20 escort ships just sitting in my system, as well as something like 50 transport ships near gates doing nothing. I think there is something broken with some script, just dont know if its your thing or vanilla issue.

Good this is, they seem to clean up after i leave system and stay away for a while.

gnasirator · Post by **gnasirator** » Wed, 8. Feb 12, 19:20

actually no, I have not. this script should ONLY affect your MK3 traders.

But might it be possible that the AI traders use some kind of MK3 script on their own?
I have once seen one them having drones on board, and and ec reserve just like they were MK3s .... but could have been a phanon corp ship.

have to check their active scripts some time.

Dark Plains · Post by **Dark Plains** » Sun, 12. Feb 12, 14:12

My ST still seem to be sitting around a lot. I m finding it very hard to train them up enough to become UT's.

Can I ask what sectors people are using for training up there ST so I can check if it's just me picking bad places to trade?

Thanks.

gnasirator · Post by **gnasirator** » Sun, 12. Feb 12, 17:38

jeah that's a pain to get them high enough - but totally normal.

try "Scale Plate Green" or even better "Empire'S Edge". Especially the last one always works for me.

from exp lvl 6 on traders can act as local traders with trade range of 1. they should have fewer downtimes then.

Dark Plains · Post by **Dark Plains** » Sun, 12. Feb 12, 19:14

Alas the Paranid really don't like me because of that whole ripping off every one of their weapon dealers I can find thing.

I shall try Scale Plate as all my old favorites like ore belt and ceo's doubt seem to be getting me nothing at all lvl 3 after 4 hours flight time if I m lucky

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Sun, 12. Feb 12, 19:24

Best starting sectors include:

- Solar Power Plant

- Food or Bio (preferably both)

- Trading Station or factories that use food as resources

The energy cells, bio, and food are all cheap consumables that result in many trades. Larger factories add more credits per run. Both factor into promotions.

"Best sector" varies from game to game, but the above tips always work.

Also, don't watch your traders! Watching them slows down their behavior. Just start them and go do something else.

"Standby" is normal behavior -- they are waiting for sufficiently large customer within range. With energy, bio, and food, that will happen soon enough.

Finally, if you want them to trade in fringe sectors, set "Show as enemy if enemy to me" as <<Off>>.

=======================================
EDIT: In other news, v1.3.4 seems to be automatically renaming my traders. And it gives them all the same name, which is useless for tracking. Mk3's are not supposed to change their names, are they?

gnasirator · Post by **gnasirator** » Mon, 13. Feb 12, 11:56

new version out!

minor changes only. merged t-files and renamed some global vars.

btw can anybody pls check if this script works with xrm? I'd like to add the compatible tag, if possible.

altay · Post by **altay** » Mon, 13. Feb 12, 18:54

I've been using this mod from the start with XRM-AP, i haven't come across any problems. I think it's fully compatible. Same with Galaxy Explorer, it's also compatible.

gnasirator · Post by **gnasirator** » Mon, 13. Feb 12, 20:16

great, thanks!

Welingen · Post by **Welingen** » Tue, 14. Feb 12, 04:55

Hi,

Work fine with XRM too.

Good job, and thanks for this.

Weli

Ps : X3TC only, don't buy AP until box released, never steam for X3.

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Tue, 14. Feb 12, 05:46

The good news is that my UT's have been behaving well since your recent fixes. (Mostly).

1) TBH, the vanilla behavior is better for me than the ware blacklister. I can live with your "optimized" behavior because it does add something useful, which is "rest-ware selling".

An important feature of Mk3's is that they are simple, with no options. So my vote is to drop the ware blacklister.

2) I assume that your Mk3's do obey the vanilla Mk3 blacklist, right? So that the Trade Mk3 Blacklist Manager will work with your optimized Mk3's?

And did you fix the bug (in vanilla) where Mk3's sometimes do not obey the blacklist? If you did, that would be a good feature to mention in your Original Post.

3) I am sorry to report that v1.3.5 is still renaming traders. (and giving them all the same name.)

Mk3's are not supposed to change names.

If you really want to change the name, the script should append the original name after "Mk3 Trader". Don't just *replace* the existing name... that makes a mess of the traders. (And be sure to allow the player to change the name).

Don't let the reports fool you -- they just mean that people are using your scripts!

gnasirator · Post by **gnasirator** » Tue, 14. Feb 12, 11:26

1) The ware black lister was your idea? Why drop it now? Works fine for me and you don't have to use it - just like the original blacklist manager.

2) yes they do. work perfectly fine together. No I didn't, because I have never observed any trader do this. If I could somehow reproduce that error, I'll gladly fix it.

3) Yes, I didn't change anything about it but I'll rethink that feature and come up with something more useful.

btw: thanks for the good testing

edit: you're right about naming. removed that for the time being. check new version.

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Tue, 14. Feb 12, 17:29

(Smile)...

1) The ware black lister may have been *inspired* by my comment that the Mk3's were selling important equipment, but I never suggested it! As implemented, it does not solve my issue. And, TBH, it is a small issue -- the rest ware selling is a better idea/implementation.

It is OK to keep the ware black lister if you like it. My suggestion to remove it is because Mk3's are supposed to be easy (meaning no configuration).

Either way, it is a minor point. I just wanted to give you my feedback. Do as you like!

2) Good that it obeys the blacklist. I found the Mk3 blacklist bug description from Cycrow:

once it has bought the wares, and the station to sell at no longer has the best deal, it'll search for a new station.

this search ignores the blacklist so the ship can end up selling anywhere

3) Thank you!

gnasirator · Post by **gnasirator** » Tue, 14. Feb 12, 21:06

ah okay, so what you are saying is, that the mk3 ware blacklist is no solution for your problem?
that's interesting, tell me more

why? I thought your problem was that the MK3 sold all the wares you loaded his cargo bay with? This should be sold now, isn't it?

the description is a great find! I'll try to reproduce that. can't be too hard to fix that, I hope.

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Tue, 14. Feb 12, 22:50

I think that what I am saying is that my "problem" is not worthwhile to fix.

My original comment was more surprise than a real request for a feature. The ware blacklister is not really a solution because you still make decisions about what you think the ship should be equipped with. Trust me, if I thought something like that were worthwhile to fix, I would do it myself.

I do not think this is important either way. However, my very small suggestion would be that Mk3's are best with no configuration at all.

If the player wants to configure things, then EST, CAG, and CLS allow plenty of configuration (including buy/sell blacklists).

(However, the code may be useful on another project, so save a copy somewhere.)

Regarding the bug, I do not know whether the AP team have fixed it yet. If they have not, then fixing that bug should help to get your script signed.

gnasirator · Post by **gnasirator** » Wed, 15. Feb 12, 01:42

alright, then I'll see what I can do about the vanilla bug - hoping to make my customers happy

And the ware blacklister .... well I COULD extract that one and put it into a separate addon, like the original blacklist. It would be the user's choice to use it then, if needed.
This way MK3's stay simple but if wanted, they can provide all the setup needed. Good plan?

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Wed, 15. Feb 12, 03:06

gnasirator wrote:alright, then I'll see what I can do about the vanilla bug

Yes, that bug fix is moderately important. It would give every player with UT's a good reason to use your mod.

(Oh, BTW, you might point out that Mk3 Optimization is a mod rather than a standalone script. Some authors forget to do that even though their mods can cause seemingly unrelated conflicts.)

I COULD extract that one and put it into a separate addon

Creative idea! However, I am not sure that installation options are any simpler and easier than configuration options.

Also, you should consider the "maintenance cost". Where will you be in six months? Two years? Will you be like most of the well-known authors here, who do not even reply to threads that they started a year or two ago?

Bugs are inevitable. Some feature requests and compatibility issues are impossible to foresee. It is better to build simple but rugged code than it is to add new features. (Shrug)... that's just my philosophy, anyway.

If you are asking my opinion, then: "Less is more".

=========================================

If we change the conversation to "Galaxy Traders by gnasirator", then the criteria change dramatically. THEN you could add as many creative features as you like, and it would make sense. I have the "gut feeling" that it is possible to write something that is MUCH better than CAG, CLS, and EST. The key would be a fresh approach to the user interface.

While CAG, CLS, and EST are powerful, they are really painful for a newbie to absorb. As in weeks of gameplay at an hour or two a day. Even the names are cryptic.

You could, I think, do much better. (You could even auto-eject the pilots into space, which is a feature that I would endorse. Or retrain them into something useful, like Marines.)

gnasirator · Post by **gnasirator** » Wed, 15. Feb 12, 11:03

why do you think this script is a mod?

I don't change anything about the game, only scripts. No new models, no core data files changed. it's just scripts.

and about the easy to use stuff you said:
right now the mk3 is still as easy to use as the vanilla one. Buy a trader + software and GO. The ware blacklist is only optional, if needed - so from that point of view, nothing changed. Only added possibilities.

Galaxy Traders ... hmm, I'm not very happy with that idea

Do you mean to completely rewrite a new trading script, the one-and-only-ever-needed trader that can do EVERYTHING?

in short: no thanks

modifying the mk3 was more than enough work and I'm really pleased with the result. I don't see the need to build another trading script.

I'm using MK3s as universe traders for constant profit and CAGs to supply my fabs. All problems solved

Only thing disturbing me about the CAG is his attacked behaviour. They die too often. That could be improved, I'm sure of that. But on the other hand would it be a lot of work again. Sooner or later the result would be some kind of CAG Optimization by Gnasirator. And that would again take months if not years to achieve, like with mk3.

Nope, not motivated, sorry

DrBullwinkle · Post by **DrBullwinkle** » Wed, 15. Feb 12, 11:16

Haha!

OK, that sounds fine to me.

You're modifying vanilla code. That's the definition of "mod", isn't it?

gnasirator · Post by **gnasirator** » Wed, 15. Feb 12, 11:58

is it?

I always understood a mod as something that changes anything else than scripts.
And a script adds/changes only scripts.

After your definition, this is definitely a mod, that's true.

btw: New version of mk3 should fix the vanilla bug. Just tested it successfully. Actually chances are that the bug was alrady fixed by implementing the new rest ware selling routine. I just added another check to it.

Easy test:
Start humble trader and explore 3-4 sectors. Set a new MK3 to lvl 25 and start it. Check auto sector blacklist for buy and sellstation, fill sellstation's cargo bay up to max, blacklist ALL sectors and see the result:
The MK3 trader flies to the buystation, buys the ware and then realizes that the sellstation is full already. So he tries to sell it somewhere else and fails because every sector is blacklisted.

Result: Trader hangs at the station searching for a new traderoute but can't find any. Just like we wanted him to

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

[SCR] [X3:TC/AP] [v1.8.9.8] [11/16/2019] MK3 Improvement Reloaded