[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

[panzerkw]

I'm sorry Paul, but I still have the problem

This time I reinstalled X3TC and installed cycrow's cheat script. Removed the 00044 file. Installed your mod, cockpit mod, trails mod, in that order, then installed Cmod. Here are the results:

[ external image ]
Turrets aiming for the starboard engine pod


Then I removed your mod and its addon packs, kept Cmod (basically a vanilla install with Cmod), and here is what I get:

[ external image ]
All three PPC batteries aiming center of mass

I did the same test with an Odysseus armed with IBL's, a Colossus and an Osaka with PSP's, and it's the same thing.

I also tried V0.59 of your mod, with the same problem.

[Igor.tverd]

@panzerkw

The above problem seems very interesting. I tried to replicate it, but with or without Cmod I can't seem to. Sorry.


@paulwheeler

It's an awesome mod that you got here, I've been using it in every single X3TC game I played. I do have a question however. What exactly did you change in /types/TDocks? I been searching, but can't find it. Thank you in advance.

[OOZ662]

What exactly did you change in /types/TDocks? I been searching, but can't find it. Thank you in advance.

I recommend you get the program called "Compare It!" to compare modded files. They need to be decompressed into their text form first, but it can save you hours of searching for altered fields.

[Gazz]

Turret cameras are always a secondary aiming point for all AI ships.

If the target's turret camera is in view of your turret but it's center is not, the target's turret is targeted.

[Igor.tverd]

What exactly did you change in /types/TDocks? I been searching, but can't find it. Thank you in advance.

I recommend you get the program called "Compare It!" to compare modded files. They need to be decompressed into their text form first, but it can save you hours of searching for altered fields.

Thank you, this'll defiantly make things easier.

[paulwheeler]

@ panzerkw

Well if it is happening in 0.59 too, then that is from before I took over the mod. I really cannot see any file that would cause this problem globally.

If it was one or two ships then I could imagine it being a problem with a scene file. But across the board I really cannot see how the SRM can affect this. In fact I'm not aware of any global file that affects aiming.

This may be because as part of the SRM Someone Else moved a few turrets. Perhaps its something to do with that, although he certainly didn't do this for all ships only those in need.

I'm not trying to say that there is nothing wrong, its just difficult to see what the problem is because I can't replicate the problem and I'm not the original author of the mod.


@Igor.tverd

Hi, its good to hear you have no aiming problems. That will hopefully help us to understand what is going on here.

The changes in Tdocks I think are from the bug fixes mod. I would check the list in that thread for the details. I don't think anything specific to the SRM is in there.


@Gazz - thanks for that. That may explain why the turrets are aiming off centre. Just not sure why the SRM would make this more obvious.

[panzerkw]

Turret cameras are always a secondary aiming point for all AI ships.

If the target's turret camera is in view of your turret but it's center is not, the target's turret is targeted.

I tried to do both screenies with the target in the same range. So if the Front turret is aiming at one spot in one and another spot in another, even though the target is at the same range, the center is in a different spot?

How do I fix this? Since no one else can confirm it must be something particular to my install

EDIT: COuld it be that I am using a Steam install and something just goes out of whack? I might make a quick trip to Best Buy and buy a DVD. I really can't go without this mod

[paulwheeler]

It sounds like this behaviour exists in vanilla but perhaps the SRM makes it a little more obvious. I know that Someone Else and the bug fix mod fixed a lot of errors to do with turrets. Perhaps in doing this it has made this more obvious.

I must admit my turrets do not always hit dead centre, but then isn't that a bit more realistic anyway? Especially if the target is moving and turning.

Hopefully Gazz will have a few more ideas. He's far more experienced and knowledgable than I am!


EDIT - by the way regarding your earlier request about the weapon loadout of the L and LX. I may add the PBE back in, but the M/AM launchers were added to make them reflect their terran origins. Can I ask why you don't like them being there?

[panzerkw]

I must admit my turrets do not always hit dead centre, but then isn't that a bit more realistic anyway? Especially if the target is moving and turning.

Yeah that's why I brought my ship to a full stop, so that way the Q would be coming straight at me. No deflection needed. For J's and K's it's not so big a deal since they are wide and the turrets shooting off center a bit will still hit the hull. But on a Q (or other small frontal aspect ships like the Tiger), you end up having half the shots miss.

EDIT - by the way regarding your earlier request about the weapon loadout of the L and LX. I may add the PBE back in, but the M/AM launchers were added to make them reflect their terran origins. Can I ask why you don't like them being there?

As for their Terran origins, none of the Terran fighters can equip the M/AM. From what I understand the Xenon have had no prior contact with the Aldrin colony. So .deca craft I could understand having these launchers, but not the Xenon. Maybe in the centuries since the Terraformer War the Xenon would have managed to to get those on fighters, but they still have pilot space and life support systems included so it would be a very tight fit.

Gameplay wise, this makes the L and LX needlessly annoying for capital ships (and very dangerous for smaller ships). M/AM launchers allows them to attack from outside of flak range. The Xenon are dangerous enough in their stock form for M6's and below but for capital ships they should still be just fodder. With HEPT's they still have some longer range attack capability. The Xenon are also recyclers - I would see them more wanting to disable craft for dismantling/recycling rather than destroying it outright.

On the same vein of balance vs. ship size I would also call for removal of SSC's from the terran corvette's. I'll admit the main reason I tried your mod was because it added PSP's to the terran frigates. But I also like the increase shielding for super freighters.

[paulwheeler]

OK I understand that. I do still want to keep the Xenon fighters "beefed up" though. I want the pilot to think twice before engaging Xenon. In my mind the vanilla game is way too easy - hense I can't play the game without the Cmod.

I will remove M/AM compatibility from L and LX, but I will make sure they still have some decent weapons.

As for the terran corvettes, I removed SSC from the main guns, but I thought I'd leave them on the turrets as I think the terran ships need advantages to make up for the fact that their military is so sparce compared to the other races. In vanilla this doesn't matter, but add an script like improved races and the terran's rapidly get hammered.

Perhaps I'll rethink this as you're the second person to request the change.

I'll get to work on a new update over the next few days.

By the way - I've put the stats from Tships into a spreadsheet. I'll post it here so you can all have a reference for the changed stats.

[draffutt]

@panzerkw

Almost 40 mins I attempted to replicate your problem you mentioned. I also have 9 other mods running along with about 35 scripts active (65 total with inactive) and i can not reproduce with my mod and no it is not a steam problem as i use steam as well.

you can see here:
link

in the pic the Q is over 6k away and my ray is targetting the Q dead center. every test was the same result so without futher data.... the only time I observed the “bullets” targeted the Q aft section was when the Q made small maneuvering adjustments then the “bullets” would hit the rear on one side. Almost as if the bullets where drawn to that point.

so either
a) there are additional changes in this mod (SRM) that mine doesn't reflect
or
b) there is something else going on with your setup

[panzerkw]

This is so frustrating

If it is something with my setup, where could I check to see if it is so?

[paulwheeler]

Can you double check that this happens with all large ships as targets and not just the Q? If it is just the Q it'll give me a starting point of where to look.

Also can you try this with just the bug fix mod? That way we can narrow down the search.

[draffutt]

If it is something with my setup, where could I check to see if it is so?

in the game folder delete objects folder, t folder, scripts folder, types folder, and any cat/dat larger then 09. Next in steam right click on TC --> properties --> local files and click on "verify integrity of game cache." it'll start you at as if you did a clean install without having to reinstall the whole thing again.

if you did a "delete local content" it normally doesn't remove any "extra" files you installed.

[panzerkw]

I wiped out all of my X3TC installations, the folder in the Documents folder that has screenshots and saved games (backed up the one I want to keep). Deleted the directories that were left. Uninstalled the Plugin Manager

Had Steam redownload X3TC from scratch. Installed the plugin manager. Installed community menu script and cheat script. Installed SRM .63 and Cmod.

STILL have the problem.

Argh

[Argonaught.]

I wiped out all of my X3TC installations, the folder in the Documents folder that has screenshots and saved games (backed up the one I want to keep). Deleted the directories that were left. Uninstalled the Plugin Manager

Had Steam redownload X3TC from scratch. Installed the plugin manager. Installed community menu script and cheat script. Installed SRM .63 and Cmod.

STILL have the problem.

Argh

Is that with a save game or a new game?

In a save game some element may still be present.

Other than starting a new game I have no other idea for you.

Argo.

[panzerkw]

Every test I've done has been started with a new game

[paulwheeler]

Can you please double check that this affects all large ships as targets or if it is specific to the Q. If its specific to one or a few ships then it'll give me somewhere to start looking.

As I said there is no global file I'm aware of that could affect aiming. But if its just a couple of ships it could be something to do with scene files.

If it was just the Q we could try swapping in the default Q scene file and see if it helps.

[strude]

Just as something else to investigate, Gazz mentioned it could be that the turret is visible, but the centre is not so it's shooting at a secondary target, being the turret. I have two long shots that may or may not have anything to do with anything, but it does sound like we're getting desperate here. First thought was screen resolution. At a lower screen res, maybe the centre "target" zone is being masked from the view of the attacking ship at certain ranges, but at closer range the centre is visible. After thinking that, I thought perhaps it's a graphics driver issue, rendering ship elements in incorrect order or something to that effect.

Both ideas seem like real long shots, but it's not hard to check if the graphics drivers are the latest (or at least the same as what someone without the problem has), and you can also compare screen resolution with someone without the problem and if different, try making it the same and see if the results can be duplicated.

[OOZ662]

The graphics card has nothing to do with how the game behaves, only how it visually looks at the very end of the process, excepting that the GPU can slow down said process if it isn't keeping up in drawing frames.