[3.2/2.5 MOD] X3TC Naval Shuffle 1.3.3.3/1.1: Now reasonably AP compatable

Sorenson · Post by **Sorenson** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 00:55

Yup. I suppose it don't matter which TBackgrounds you use if you're concerned with removing fog, though, as the NS one does the same thing as that stand-alone defogger.

EDIT: You folks are re-reading the OP with each new release, right? 'cause it's not just a quick relink job at the top I'm doing, this sucker's getting updated and filled out with each new installment.

EDIT: I've not checked it directly since I usually start a new game after I do X amount of tinkering in the .pcks, but inbetween the universe changes and the ship stat changes and all that other stuff I've done this time around you're probably not going to be able to get the full effect of the mod by loading from a previous version's save. I know Shadow Wolf tried this with a 1>2 upgrade and ran into a whole buncha' messes. As I've said in the OP and several times before, this is a beta and should be treated as such, including all the cheating and debugging you can shake a script at.

Aquitaine · Post by **Aquitaine** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 00:58

If I remove version 2 and install version 3, would that invalidate saves made with v2?

je_la_d · Post by **je_la_d** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 01:49

So just a funny story for you as I download beta 3 ....

Auto-pilot used to be good to me.. however, after installing beta 2, I was trucking along at 412m/s,(with seta on 1000% in my terran sabre) through scale plate green doing a mission... I had forgotten to save for about an hour or so ... Anyways, I see an asteroid ahead, and the Autopilot stops the ship for 2 - 3 seconds, flips straight up, then flips back to the original direction and rams me full speed into the asteroid. I can't help but think the added speed had something to do with it

... not complaining, just a funny story.

Anyways, I love this mod... don't know why Egosoft didn't do this stuff before instead of using the same old ship speeds from 20 years back... (atleast I think thats how the storyline goes...) Seems like spaceships would be similiar to cars, 20 years go by and all the sudden the avg Joe's little budget car does 120mph instead of 85mph...

Tahlmorra · Post by **Tahlmorra** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 02:09

Just wanted to say VERY nice mod. I have been really enjoying the increased ship speed. Took my elite at a group of 12 Ns and the way they flew past me in a cloud, electric bold chaingun rounds reaching out to blot me from the sky was reminiscent of when the jedi starfighters fly through a cloud of vulture droids at the beginning of episode three. Needless to say, it was epic.

Can't wait to see a larger battle.

Edit: Note to self: stay away from the front end of a paranid M6 (I think it was an M6) Face-fulls of flak are painful...

lamoyja · Post by **lamoyja** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 02:16

I figured you had removed the fog in yours as well. But I like being without the space particles.

I mean seriously... how much dust is flying around in space that I'd be able to see a constant flux of particles fly by?

I like the other changes quite a bit so far, been putzing around with the new build though, started with the goner start, and I'm messing around with the a 7ate9 explorer mod at the moment so I haven't entered into a serious new game yet. (always save off your old saves before starting a new campaign...

)

Shadow_Wolf33 · Post by **Shadow_Wolf33** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 03:23

Mirror updated to include beta 3. Link is:
http://www.cwmftw.com/x3tc/sorenson/X3T ... Beta_3.rar

hooray for zero waiting links!

Sorenson · Post by **Sorenson** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 04:56

Thanks, Shadow.

Anyone got any feedback on the new missile setup yet? I'm rather curious to see how those fared, considering missiles have such table-turning powers.

Also, I finally heard back from Nividium, so the next update should have beam forges working.

lamoyja wrote:I figured you had removed the fog in yours as well. But I like being without the space particles.

I mean seriously... how much dust is flying around in space that I'd be able to see a constant flux of particles fly by?

Motion particles are basically the red racing stripes of space, and it's a nice low-level indicator of just how fast you're going. I figure their psychological effects are worth keeping them in.

Shadow_Wolf33 · Post by **Shadow_Wolf33** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 05:03

Sorenson wrote:Thanks, Shadow.

Anyone got any feedback on the new missile setup yet? I'm rather curious to see how those fared, considering missiles have such table-turning powers.

Also, I finally heard back from Nividium, so the next update should have beam forges working.

Tomorrow I'm more than likely going to attempt an in-place upgrade and continue off of a currently running game. I like my fleets and phat bank account and huge weapon-plex and really don't feel like rebuilding it. SO I shall test the 'drop in upgrade' capability and report any oddities.

When I upgraded from Beta 1 to Beta 2, the only queer behavior I got was regarding the weapon quantity changes for turrets. The ones that had turrets increased went all wacky and got free placeholder IRE's that did absolutely nothing. Shall spin the wheel and see what happens this time.

Motion particles are basically the red racing stripes of space, and it's a nice low-level indicator of just how fast you're going. I figure their psychological effects are worth keeping them in.

Agreed, a space game just wouldn't be a space game without those little particles of dust/rock/ship debris/astronaut feces whizzing by your ship letting you know you're really bookin it.

Did any ship performance stats get tweaked? or gun slot quantities? or did those more or less stay the same?

Need to start adding a change log to your 2nd post.

Sorenson · Post by **Sorenson** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 05:57

I don't like doing change logs, mainly because I do so many changes and rechanges that keeping everything in order is a nightmare. As for ship stat changes, asides from more ships getting more single-gun turrets turned to doubles and the cargo recalculations and ship missile compatabilities being adjusted to fit the new missiles setup I don't think I did much in that department. Asides from any adjustments I might have to make due to folks' requests and a change to the Scabbard's weapon energy I only discovered I'd forgotten to do after I shipped beta 3 out I think ships are pretty much done.

EDIT: Bah, stupid scripting. I managed to integrate part of Nividium's NPP script into the terran station purchasing one (which cuts its size down to like a third of its beta 3 size, thank goodness) and replicate the factory ware reset script to apply to fusion beam forges, and when executed it works just fine. When it's executed being the problem - even though I've got an identical call script command at the bottom of the BTS script to the one Niv used for his NPP and the game does call it from that it doesn't actually run the sucker until I do so manually. Maybe I'll throw the code up here later if I can't get it to stop screwing around and let you guys have a crack at it.

Shadow_Wolf33 · Post by **Shadow_Wolf33** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 07:33

Tomorrow if I'm bored at work, I'll see if I can get my data harvester application to parse the turret data. One way or the other perhaps I'll post my excel sheet full of all the changed data goodness that this mod entails, so the OCD buggers like myself that need to create the "perfect" fleet can can peruse the stats.

Either that or people can use it as a preview for the mod, whatever.

je_la_d · Post by **je_la_d** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 16:08

Just a quick question about the shield changes.... I was cruising in a mercury and bashed another asteroid (Autopilot hates me now) ... and when it hit, it instantly exploded, no bounce back or anything. The question is ... how much did you change the shields on the TS ships? This particular merc had 3x25mj shields... seems like it could take a hit from a small asteroid (1/2 the size of the ship) without instantly blowing up.. Using a fresh install with beta 3, and a few other small scripts (rock remover by Grax being the key...lol) mars, and codea.... etc..

Sorenson · Post by **Sorenson** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 16:31

TS ships didn't get much changes asides from the Mistral Super Freighter, which got bumped up from six 25s to one 200, and the only change I made to 25 mj shields themselves was setting their efficiency to a flat 1.0. The increased speed might've had something to do with it, or it might have been just the engine having a weird moment. I'll see if I can replicate what happened to you and see what the results are.

ONE-SECOND-LATER-EDIT: Now that my reading comprehension's kicked in through the morning brain fog, might have nothing, it had to have been the speed. Since speed is naaturally a big chunk of the equation to determining collision damage, that mercuries and the like are now zipping around at 2.5 times their vanilla speeds means full-speed hits are going to be anything but nice if the hit party's larger than an M4.

EDIT: That's one of the things I have to work on, and unfortunetily it's probably going to take me a good long while to do so since I think some of that's dictated in the TJobs file. Cranking up the Gauss Cannon Ammunition allotment on spawn should probably fix it.

EDIT: Having just checked for myself what Xenon capitals spawn with, I think it'd actually be a whole lot better if they spawned with five rounds of gauss ammunition since they could at least shoot at other ships instead of spawning with prototype starbursts filling every slot with a bunch of flaks thrown in for strange measure. I really wish this bloody game would be consistant in its bad logic.

stealthhammer · Post by **stealthhammer** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 16:32

I'm just wondering, are you or have you worked on the amount of ammo that Xenon capital ships spawn with. For example if a ship spawns with X number of crate of Gauss cannon ammo per cannon verses the 5 shots or so per cannon for the ship?

Sorry if I'm not clear, its to early for me yet here.

Shadow_Wolf33 · Post by **Shadow_Wolf33** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 18:16

Do you have any perticular logic behind the design choice on how the Terran/ATF ships are generally ranking faster/higher shielded in almost all categories than all of their rivals? The Aegir for example is faster than almost HALF of all M3s when looking at max speeds, and is faster than ALL non-terran/ATF M6es apart from the Hyperion Vanguard. I thought the Split were supposed to be the speed freaks in this universe. Is it just because Terran sectors are so bloody huge? or did I catch you in some blatant favoritism.

and GAH! You nerfed the top speed on the Venti. When I mentioned the inconsistency between it and the Solano I meant for the Solano to get increased not the Venti to get decreased.

I also noticed that the Hyperion Vanguard doesn't seem to follow the "Universal Weapons" convention, which should theoretically allow it to mount PRGs on the main guns as well as on the turrets.

Sorenson · Post by **Sorenson** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 18:44

Shadow_Wolf33 wrote:Do you have any perticular logic behind the design choice on how the Terran/ATF ships are generally ranking faster/higher shielded in almost all categories than all of their rivals? The Aegir for example is faster than almost HALF of all M3s when looking at max speeds, and is faster than ALL non-terran/ATF M6es apart from the Hyperion Vanguard. I thought the Split were supposed to be the speed freaks in this universe. Is it just because Terran sectors are so bloody huge? or did I catch you in some blatant favoritism.

One part interpretation of developer's intent, one part strict adherence to my calculating formulas, one part Terrans being the Mighty Whitey race of the X-verse, one part favoritism that developed as a result of said Mighty Whitey-ness.

and GAH! You nerfed the top speed on the Venti. When I mentioned the inconsistency between it and the Solano I meant for the Solano to get increased not the Venti to get decreased.

Still faster than every M3 that ain't Terran or Split in origin, though.

EDIT: PRGs aren't universal, they're Foundation Guild weapons - their counterpart is the Pulsed Beam Emitter, especially with its boosted range/lowered firing rate, which the Hyperion's capable of using.

Shadow_Wolf33 · Post by **Shadow_Wolf33** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 19:42

Sorenson wrote:One part interpretation of developer's intent, one part strict adherence to my calculating formulas, one part Terrans being the Mighty Whitey race of the X-verse, one part favoritism that developed as a result of said Mighty Whitey-ness.

Guess I might have to start using more Terran/ATF ships then. I tried using an Odin for a while over the weekend and it seems to have a habit of running over its own fighters, or maybe I just need to stop my carrier during deployment...hmmm.....

Still faster than every M3 that ain't Terran or Split in origin, though.

or boron, or paranid, or yaki.... It's still in the top 1/3rd, but definitely a big drop from its position as 3rd fastest it had before.

EDIT: PRGs aren't universal, they're Foundation Guild weapons - their counterpart is the Pulsed Beam Emitter, especially with its boosted range/lowered firing rate, which the Hyperion's capable of using.

My bad, guess PRGs being Universal was just wishful thinking on my end.

je_la_d · Post by **je_la_d** » Mon, 8. Feb 10, 20:37

Still loving the mod .. and yet I have another funny story... I was trading around in my merc (again) ... when out of the blue (or black...) this huge split TL comes speeding past me and makes a hard right turn about 200 meters in front of me ... needless to say, I went splat.. Funny part is how fast that thing went whipping past me like a road raged speed junkie just to cut me off.. I think the auto-pilot gods hate this mod

or quite possibly just me using this mod ...

Anyways, about the shields, my ship is a merc hauler, with 4x25mj shields, and if a space fuel drunk discoverer happens to kamakazie me, its all over for both of us... (and yes, this has happened 3 times since installing beta 3... lol) Just something to look into when you get a chance. I realize raising the shield power up would make raiding convoys kind of a pain (all things considered, a heavily shielded TS with 2+ m4 - m3s guarding it would be trouble for most solo m4s...) but I don't know. The collision thing is all hard-coded in right?

Looking on the brigher side though, with heavier shielding, most TS ships would be more of a challenge than launching a few missles and watching the fireworks...

Aquitaine · Post by **Aquitaine** » Tue, 9. Feb 10, 00:38

Just started a new game yesterday. Got myself a Blastclaw Prototype.

No matter what I put in the main laser bay, it won't fire. Turrets work fine though. Am I missing something or is the ship broke?

lamoyja · Post by **lamoyja** » Tue, 9. Feb 10, 01:12

I'll fire up my game and give you a second opinion on that blastclaw prototype question. BRB

edit: ok added myself a blastclaw prototype and added differing weapons in the front cockpit lasers. The phased repeater gun and other fast firing weapon both seem fine. I didn't bother with the rest, though on other thoughts I probably should have.

What scripts/addons are you using? If you're using anything like that combat mod, that is going to conflict horribly

My game is a horrible mish mash of scripts and fake patches all on top of eachother, and it works pretty well with this mod.

Sorenson · Post by **Sorenson** » Tue, 9. Feb 10, 01:20

I just did, no problems. Seeing as I didn't touch the front cockpit guns there's no reason it should break. Are you running any other mods or some scripts or whatnot?

EDIT: I just tested it with every gun, no problems.

EDIT: Beaten.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

[3.2/2.5 MOD] X3TC Naval Shuffle 1.3.3.3/1.1: Now reasonably AP compatable