[Mod] Formation Collision Fix (FCF) v0.2.1a (9-10-09) Slight M4 Adjustment

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Fri, 11. Sep 09, 02:30

If it's any consolation starbuck I think we're getting close. I'm almost certain I'll have to reintroduce the exclusion zones on the bigger ships but that's going to take a lot more time since generic values simply do not work--the size and shape differences are just too severe. I'll probably spend the weekend tailoring minimal exclusion zones for all of the big ships...after that's done I'm fairly confident it will be pretty close to 100%.

Then just testing to make sure I didn't inadvertently break anything, plus finding someone willing to script a solution to the docking issue noted above.

And with that I think I'm going to take the rest of the evening off...this is all I've done for the past two days straight and my eyes and hands hurt. >.>

I fully suspect there will be issues, so don't be alarmed when they pop up. Just report them and I'll make sure they're fixed before full release.

aka1nas · Post by **aka1nas** » Fri, 11. Sep 09, 03:41

Alkeena wrote:
Then just testing to make sure I didn't inadvertently break anything, plus finding someone willing to script a solution to the docking issue noted above.

And with that I think I'm going to take the rest of the evening off...this is all I've done for the past two days straight and my eyes and hands hurt. >.>

Does Gazz's Docking Lockup Fix script alleviate this issue? IIRC, it makes all AI ships use the docking computer if installed.

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Fri, 11. Sep 09, 04:00

The docking lockup fix could be modified to simply act as if the ship had a docking computer, regardless of if it did or not. That would solve any docking issues.

StarbuckAK · Post by **StarbuckAK** » Fri, 11. Sep 09, 06:10

for the issue of ships colliding with their carrier after launches of tight multiple ships, would it be possible to set some sort of number somewhere to make the ships depart outward further from the ship before they start going all catywompus willynilly and stupid? if theyre all flying around eachother they dont usually crash into eachother in their little collision avoidance spaz, but as long as a big lurking carrier is in the middle of it all... blamo! so if they could all just move out a ways before going crazy, that would alleviate some of that particular pickle smell.

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Fri, 11. Sep 09, 17:46

StarbuckAK wrote:for the issue of ships colliding with their carrier after launches of tight multiple ships, would it be possible to set some sort of number somewhere to make the ships depart outward further from the ship before they start going all catywompus willynilly and stupid? if theyre all flying around eachother they dont usually crash into eachother in their little collision avoidance spaz, but as long as a big lurking carrier is in the middle of it all... blamo! so if they could all just move out a ways before going crazy, that would alleviate some of that particular pickle smell.

I've been docking and undocking ships like mad in my testing, I've probably put about 5-600 docks/undocks of various fully tuned M3/4/5 out of several of the M1s. Not a single collision yet.

That doesn't mean collisions are impossible, naturally. My prototype for 0.2a was working amazingly well, then I take it full scale and notice many M4s plastering themselves into things and dramatically elongated formations...it's all a matter of test space. So, anyway, I'll say that so far undocking works beautifully, but docking takes some time though due to the issue I mentioned on the previous page; both happen without collisions though.

Anyway, I'm going to spend today crafting ship specific exclusion zones for some of the big ships and see if I can't couple that with some shorter probes to return formations back to their original aspect ratios and generally make things a little more consistent.

StarbuckAK · Post by **StarbuckAK** » Fri, 11. Sep 09, 19:43

that is excellent to hear! you could very well be the savior of this game. i believe the profit Dirk spoke of you a millennia ago.

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Fri, 11. Sep 09, 20:32

apricotslice wrote:Lots of activity while I've been asleep.

An observation from a comment......

Part of the problem seems to be where exactly ships aim at. Now I noticed recently that for J's and K's, the aim point is no longer the center, but a spot on top to the rear.

Now i know Observe played around with making a ship that was impossible to hit, simply because there was no ship hull at the point where the aim was.

Would it be possible to move the aim point on all ships, so that it reflects the easiest point for ships to hit ? Or indeed, move the aim point a bit outside the ship (not too far) enough that it gives fighters a chance to hit before they have to avoid ?

I'm all for increasing the range of guns. Add 2km to all guns. The only problem is that on the player ship, the auto-aim doesnt change just because you extend the range of the gun. I have 6km PBE's and only get a target lock indicator at 4km. Some guns by their design will still not hit a barn door with a 2km range increase. Gun selection still plays a part, but at least if we had some guns that can hit, we can recommend which guns to use.

I'm resolving this now--many ships are off balance up/down. The center of mass actually lies below the 0 plane of their scene and my generic exclusion zones were centered at 0,0,0. Now that I'm making ship specific exclusion zones (and my god does it take forever

) this shouldn't be an issue since the "center of mass" should be unchanged whereas before it was raised above the model...

Edit: and yes, I suppose you could exploit this fact to pull fire away from a ship intentionally. I just hope this doesnt prove to be a problem with many fighters. Custom boxes for the big ships will probably take me all weekend as it is, if I have to do it for all the fighters....well, god help me. This is one of the reasons I'm adding the exclusion zones back to big ships, it means I can significantly reduce the size of probes (only keeping them for really fast ships) and so not cause fire to end up way ahead of every fighter due to its extended scene.

(For those unaware there are more than 250 models that FCF tries to fix...)

StarbuckAK · Post by **StarbuckAK** » Fri, 11. Sep 09, 21:13

hopefully when all is figured out, I, or someone could help to edit the Battlestar Galactica ships. whenever I give, say, a squadron of 10 viper fighters a direct attack command to go after one ship from their command console, they all deploy and some disperse but at least 2, 1 from each side of the ships deployment catapaults comes rushing right back into the ship in a blaze of horror. like the retarded rookie who was the last the fleet had.

StarbuckAK · Post by **StarbuckAK** » Sun, 13. Sep 09, 00:04

anymore progress?

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Sun, 13. Sep 09, 00:11

Yep, I'm very happy with the current state of FCF--it's just a matter of finishing the ship specific exclusion zones. That takes time and effort. Just be patient, it will be out soon

StarbuckAK · Post by **StarbuckAK** » Sun, 13. Sep 09, 02:30

no rush amigo. ive needed a break from playing the game anyway. going to continue fixing up the galactica mod so i can release it to the people.

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Sun, 13. Sep 09, 03:05

It'll be done tomorrow or Monday probably. I could certainly get it out sooner, but it's taxing and time consuming so I tend to just do a couple ships at a time and then set it aside for a bit. I really pushed the initial development hard because I was really excited to have finally managed to address the collision problem. Doing that for a couple days straight really just wore me down though...

Sorry...

It'll be out soon though, I promise

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Wed, 16. Sep 09, 18:55

Hey guys. I just wanted to say that I'm still [very] actively working on this. I'm trying to optimize it as much as possible (using math! and science!). I've logged about 20 hours of testing and experimentation since Sunday and I'm adjusting a lot based on what I found.

So, I missed my initial promised delivery date, but it's for the best; really.

I'll not make the mistake of providing a concrete delivery date again, but I will say 'soon.'

StarbuckAK · Post by **StarbuckAK** » Wed, 16. Sep 09, 19:49

awesome! what we need more of is science!

Deadbeat_Spinn · Post by **Deadbeat_Spinn** » Fri, 25. Sep 09, 01:08

To the future script on hand, I think it holds a fair amount of promise since having your wingman crash into each other or NPC ships/stations can be rather infuriating. Not to mention the cost of outfitting/upgrading said ships so they can get totalled in a matter of minutes due to questionable AI tactics. Pity you can't punish the AI pilots for bad calls, short of not using them of course.

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Sat, 26. Sep 09, 04:10

I've managed to make some major improvements, but I'm still working on it despite the lack of posts recently.

I've slowed down a lot because I'm taking the GRE on Monday so I've been a little preoccupied in real life. Should have a release sometime next week though.

Jaga_Telesin · Post by **Jaga_Telesin** » Sat, 26. Sep 09, 04:21

I didn't see this mentioned, though I could have been skimming the thread too fast.. have you (or anyone testing the package) done any performance metrics tests to see if the changes to collision avoidance have reduced the impact on the CPU and raised Framerates any Alkeena? In a typical X3:TC game there is a lot of in-sector avoidance being pushed from ships to the CPU (especially the larger ships), and hence they take a lot of processor time trying to fly around each other.

KaZTek · Post by **KaZTek** » Sat, 26. Sep 09, 10:21

Jaga_Telesin wrote:I didn't see this mentioned, though I could have been skimming the thread too fast.. have you (or anyone testing the package) done any performance metrics tests to see if the changes to collision avoidance have reduced the impact on the CPU...

I stopped reading right there and went straight to

Considering the HORRIBLE crash-avoidance routines in X3TC, I sincerely doubt that any sort of meaningful use of CPU cycles is happening. If it were, we wouldnt even need this, or even complain of suicide M5's.

snwboardn21 · Post by **snwboardn21** » Sun, 27. Sep 09, 02:54

Hey don't worry about rushing it, considering you are the first to do it and you have nothing to base it on we will all be very happy when you get a good working version done, and the amount of testing you have done speaks volumes. I will go ahead and get the BETA, because this issue is that big. Good work!

Foxbyte · Post by **Foxbyte** » Wed, 7. Oct 09, 17:52

Excellent work! I found your mod after I managed to scrap together a small fleet and half of them crashed into one-another, or got stuck inside the stargate's ring.

Though unless I'm installing it wrong [I've owned X3TC for all of a few days now] it overrides the Improved Ships/Combat mods I've got also. Anyway to make these play nice?

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[Mod] Formation Collision Fix (FCF) v0.2.1a (9-10-09) Slight M4 Adjustment