[Mod] Bomber and Shuttle Docking v1.1 ( 8-28-09 ) Now with greater modularity.

[Madtrack]

ah for the bugfixes it's not that I don't like the changes, it's that it edits a lot of different files, effectively rendering your mod incompatible with a lot of other mods unless you have the know-how to manually merge them, I can do that personally but it might be beyond the reach of many people and it would be a shame if people missed your mod just because they can't use it with their favorite mod

Maybe you could do "optional packs" a bit like someone else does with his ship rebalance mod to avoid having too many versions to maintain ?

Your explanation makes sense for the M2, and I know about freight drones, that's why I suggested a TP (not TS) docking clamp, as they have a cargo hold of about 800 which is almost the same as a freight drone, but are a lot more convenient as far as commands and range go (I personally find freight drones a pain )

Anyhow it was only a suggestion and I can definitely understand the concern of increasing the cargo-hold too much

Thanks for taking my suggestion into account about the tokyo, as I play I'll report any more oddities if I find some

[Alkeena]

The difference is that the TS/TP actively expands the cargo bay even while the M2 is on duty. It's not just a matter of sending ships around to dock up during a resupply--those ships can just sit in the clamp semi-permanently and actively expand the cargo hold whereas a freight drone is pretty much only for fetching things and resupplying.

You have to keep in mind that even just a TP would provide about a 10% (a TS, as you noted, can get up to 100%) cargo boost on top of the potential ~6% gained from the fighters if you use falcon haulers + the 20% in the balance mod (which admitedly not everyone is using) necessary for the AI to not get gimped setups. All of it together quickly adds up to the point that you no longer really have to make decisions about what you carry--just cram anything and everything you could want in. That seems inherently less interesting of a simulation to me personally so I want be somewhat careful in enabling it while still permitting fun docking solutions.

I hope that makes sense.

Edit: Also, you're right about the bug fixes I suppose. I'll work on separating them and rebuilding the overall structure of the mod to make it more modular when I get some more time later in the week.

[Madtrack]

Yes I can see what you mean, in the end a TP clamp would be more of a "convenience" change than a truly "balanced" change, still, since M2's lost their docking bays in X3:R, I can't help but feel that something is missing, guess I'm just too used to M2's that could dock things

Anyhow more to the point, do your balance changes work on an existing savegame ? or do they require cloning like for the docking bays ?

[Alkeena]

Anyhow more to the point, do your balance changes work on an existing savegame ? or do they require cloning like for the docking bays ?

To avoid the headache I just experienced with docking savegame compatibility I made sure to explicitly test this before responding.

The short answer is that the balance mod does not require re-cloning every ship to take effect. To demonstrate this I started a new game without BSD installed, spawned a Baldric and gave it 200 cargo expansions (3200 cargo vanilla). I then went through the [original] savegame compatibility routine of hopping in an M3 and teleporting over to an unknown sector, saving, and installing the mod. When I loaded it up the Baldric showed 4200 cargo with a max of 5000, so it changed the stats appropriately and also counted the already paid for expansions. All without cloning--it was the original ship.

I did however just realize that this might put you in a position where you could end up with a super tuned Baldric if you had already maxed cargo upgrades:

Vanilla: 3000-4500
1500 upgrades

BSD Balance: 4000-5000
1000 upgrades

So, you could conceivably end up with a Baldric w/ 5500/5000 cargo if you installed BSD balance while owning a maxed out Baldric. Unfortunately I think it's too late for me to change this now--I don't want to put people in the position of having more cargo in the bay than the ship can actually hold when I issue a patch. Enjoy your supertuned baldrics I guess. :-\

If it really bothers you, you should be able to remove the spare tunings with the cheat package. The presence of the spare tunings won't harm anything, it's just a slight boost for pre-existing ships. This the only change that could be affected by this; the Baldric Miner upgrade amounts were not altered (only the base value). In fact the only other ships where upgrade amounts were touched were the Boreas and the Python, but both have MORE upgrades available after BSD Balance than before, which means you won't be able to go over as is possible with the Baldric.

[Alkeena]

...

I'm not quite sure what I want to do about the Baldric oversight at the moment. I don't want to reduce the base to 3500-5000 and risk leaving someone stranded with more cargo than the ship can carry when they upgrade to the next version--I'm pretty sure it will force the ship to eject any excess wares, I could be wrong on that though. The easy solution is to just up the cargo max amount to 4000-5500 and then up the Baldric Miner to 5500-6500. They're really fast and well shielded TS though and not terribly expensive--I don't want to step on the toes of the Caiman too much for instance...

I may just leave it be at this point and people that luck out with a spare 500 m^3 cargo from a savegame install get a mildly unbalanced ship. I'm open to suggestions though, what do people think?

[Madtrack]

Well I believe loosing 500 cargo would be a minor annoyance at best, but if you're in the early game then yeah it could hurt

If you are worried about balance keep in mind that moving baldrics "en masse" out of the sol system is a major pain, unless you have the hub or your empire is in omicron lyrae, you're prolly not going to use them outside of the solar system anyway because every route to the core sectors goes either trough xenon sectors and/or several pirate sectors, so it's much quicker and better to buy ships closer to the core sectors (also, terran EQ docks don't carry all the equipment, which requires to move them around to equip them)

A more elegant solution would be to up the price slightly and set the cargo at 5500 max, after all it's not outrageous and right between standard versions and haulers, and it compensates not being able to have terran SF or Haulers (well you can buy argon SF's in OL, but that's another point)

Hope it helps,

[Doc Quixotic]

It appears to me your 'No Cockpits' pack adds a yellow engine trail to all Teladi fighters. This trail causes graphic glitches while travelling in SETA. Starting a new game without your mod installed removes these trails again. Is this a bug or an undocumented feature?

Also, the cargobay of the Tyr still is too small to spawn with a full load of weapons. It can't pack all the PSP-generators it needs, nor does it have space for any SSC. I would strongly suggest increasing Tyr's cargobay to at least 10k.

[Alkeena]

It appears to me your 'No Cockpits' pack adds a yellow engine trail to all Teladi fighters. This trail causes graphic glitches while travelling in SETA. Starting a new game without your mod installed removes these trails again. Is this a bug or an undocumented feature?

Bug. I'm not sure how that might have happened but I'll definitely investigate it and get it fixed for BSD v1.1 which I'm presently working on.

Also, the cargobay of the Tyr still is too small to spawn with a full load of weapons. It can't pack all the PSP-generators it needs, nor does it have space for any SSC. I would strongly suggest increasing Tyr's cargobay to at least 10k.

http://imgur.com/BQMGr.jpg
[ external image ]

As you can see I scanned an NPC Tyr to see what it was packing since the cargo boost was largely about enabling the AI to carry reasonable loads. I consider this a reasonable load (presuming you use the AI ammo fix ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=248906 ), which is necessary for all AI ammo fed weapons anyway.

With BSD Balance installed even a full loadout of 32 PSP + 24 Starburst + 6x 2 GJ = 8404 < 9600

So you can even achieve the 'optimal' lodout if you wish with more than enough room to spare for extras. I'll reference this:

You have to keep in mind that even just a TP would provide about a 10% (a TS, as you noted, can get up to 100%) cargo boost on top of the potential ~6% gained from the fighters if you use falcon haulers + the 20% in the balance mod (which admitedly not everyone is using) necessary for the AI to not get gimped setups. All of it together quickly adds up to the point that you no longer really have to make decisions about what you carry--just cram anything and everything you could want in. That seems inherently less interesting of a simulation to me personally so I want be somewhat careful in enabling it while still permitting fun docking solutions.

Given that the AI doesn't actually seem to be having issues I'm not inclined to boost it.

Thanks for the feedback though, it's important that these things be discussed and checked--I'm certain not every change I made was wholly appropriate and may just need a different perspective to point it out. Please keep it coming.

[Madtrack]

Bug. I'm not sure how that might have happened but I'll definitely investigate it and get it fixed for BSD v1.1 which I'm presently working on.

You have particle emmiters set in the TShips

Although I kinda like them tbh

Also, did your mod make any changes in the TDocks and Tfactories? I think that's from the bugfix but I want to be sure, I'm currently merging and checking what files are safe to remove

[Alkeena]

Also, did your mod make any changes in the TDocks and Tfactories? I think that's from the bugfix but I want to be sure, I'm currently merging and checking what files are safe to remove

Nope. that's bug fix. At it's very core BSD is only:

\types\Dummies.txt
\types\TShips.txt
\objects\ships\*

Everything else is a result of various merges.

Also, if you can wait a day or two I'll have finished modularizing everything for 1.1.

I plan to have:

BSDCore -- The file list above, docking and docking only
BSDBalance -- the BSD Balance module
BSDCockpit -- PSCO1's Cockpit, BSD module
BSDBugFix -- Draffutt's Player Bug Fixes, BSD module

This will allow people to add only the functionality they're interested in while significantly increasing cross mod compatibility. All the modules will be able to be mixed and matched as people please.

1.1 will also:

Move the Tokyo Docks
Fix a Clipping issue on the Zeus clamp undock (hopefully, haven't actually gotten around to this one yet...)
Reset the Teladi engine trails back to vanilla
Upgrade PSCO1's Cockpit Mod to the version released 8/20/09 (fixes red lines)

+ Anything else people bring up between now and release in the next couple days. If you don't like a docking position now is the time to complain

[Doc Quixotic]

...As you can see I scanned an NPC Tyr to see what it was packing since the cargo boost was largely about enabling the AI to carry reasonable loads. I consider this a reasonable load...

Funny that... My Tyr spawns with a cargo bay of +- 7500. Have you confirmed my earlier bug in your own game? If not, that might be a problem on my end after all. I'll take a close look and I'll report back to you. I would feel thoroughly ashamed if I wasted your time.


---> I failed to re-install the balance pack correctly after my various on/off switching of mods. Issue is now fixed. The engine trails persist.

[Alkeena]

---> I failed to re-install the balance pack correctly after my various on/off switching of mods. Issue is now fixed. The engine trails persist.

No worries. You're right the engine trails do persist and have been fixed for the next release--my apologies for that. Also be careful not to install BSD as a mod as the different modules will end up disabling each other. That's why I suggest a false patch approach.

[Alkeena]

Updated to 1.1. Let me know if anything's broken and I'll get it fixed ASAP =)

Going to sleep now though

[Dan101]

Hi there,

I seem to be having heaps of trouble running this mod. I packed it into an spk using Cycrow's plugin manager latest version (not the new lite version). Every other mod/script/whatever I am using has been added in the same way and I am having no other troubles. Oh yeah, X3TC steam v2.1

When I first installed it the game started fine, but I could not seem to dock anything larger than an M3 to any of my carriers/TLs despite following the instructions to the letter. No matter what I tried I couldn't get it to work so I removed the mod from the plugin manager and placed it directly in the X3TC folder as a fake patch. Afterwards I tried loading my save game only to get a CTD with an error message saying "error loading savegame, may be corrupt!".

When I disable BSD I am able to load those save games again. I am also able to start a new game with no problems.

I have tried the following with no success:
-Undocked all capital ships
-Undock all fighters from those capital ships
-Destroy them
-Destroy every ship and station I own
-Disabled every other mod except BSD

I am using quite a few mods but I've not enough time at the moment to list them all. I think by disabling them all I eliminated them as a possible cause anyway. I'm guessing I broke something by removing the mod in the first place but I've no idea what that might be, or if it can be fixed. Can anyone hazard a guess as to what my issue might be?

Thanks in advance guys.

*I should also add that I started with v1.0 and have since tried v1.1 core with no success.

[Madtrack]

Might seem obvious but did shouldn't destroy your ships (well yes but let me explain)

You have to "Clone" them using cycrow's cheat manager first, which will create a NEW ship with the exact same wares, guns ect ...

Then you destroy the existing ship, as, no matter what you try, the game won't recognize the new docks on existing ships, only new ones (that is why you have to "clone" them, you'll get the exact same ship, but with the new docks)

Also the "corrupted savegame" happens most of the time when you load a save that has one the the ships modified by this mod in the same sector as you, did you go to an unknown sector to save, and then loaded that particular save ? it should work

If you did all that we can look further for the cause, just need to be sure

[Dan101]

Hi Madtrack,

Thanks for the response.

Sorry if I was a bit unclear. When I said I destroyed my ships this was not to get the docking working, this was an attempt to rectify the "corrupted" saved game issue. I had already followed the instructions on the first page for cloning ships to get the docking clamps, but it didn't work. I suspect I may have had a conflicting mod at the time which prevented this mod from working.

I am now in the situation where I can still play the game but I can't use the mod at all or I get the corrupted save game issue.

Also the "corrupted savegame" happens most of the time when you load a save that has one the the ships modified by this mod in the same sector as you, did you go to an unknown sector to save, and then loaded that particular save ? it should work

Yes, I tried this but it didn't work. When I destroyed (with the cheat scripts) my entire fleet I was in an unknown sector with 2 Terran Scabbards (not mine), but the corrupt save game issue persisted. I was in a Vidar at the time, do you think this might have been an issue?

[someone else]

I was in a Vidar at the time, do you think this might have been an issue?

yes. Alkeena added a M5 docking to the Vidar try again with you in a fighter. (in a unknown sector without any ship with you)

ATF M6 Vidar
1 External M5
1 Total Docking Slots

[Madtrack]

Yes, I tried this but it didn't work. When I destroyed (with the cheat scripts) my entire fleet I was in an unknown sector with 2 Terran Scabbards (not mine), but the corrupt save game issue persisted. I was in a Vidar at the time, do you think this might have been an issue?

Aye that might be it, vidar is one of the modified ships (it gets an M5 docking clamp) so if you try to add the mod (or remove it for that matter) while in sector with one you'll get the corrupt savegame message

Your best bet is to try to load that savegame in a way that works (if you were trying to add, remove the mod or the other way around if you were trying to remove) and then try sending the vidar away to another sector and get in an M5 (it's an unmodified ship), scabbards shouldn't matter, but if you can find a completely empty sector so much the better (to eliminate outside parameters)

Let us know if it works

[Alkeena]

Hey, just woke up, sorry for the silence. I was up really late trying to get 1.1 out. Unfortunately I have to run now as well as RL beckons--the advice offered by both Someone Else as well as MadTrack are both spot on though.

1) I have no idea what Cycrow's mod manager does--the only supported and known functional install method is the false patch method

2) Please be sure to read the installation and savegame compatibility instructions very closely. There is not a single non-critical step that will not break the install if it is not followed. Make sure not to fly ANYTHING touched by the mod during your preparatory save and don't have them in sight or in sector. Fly an M5 off to a secluded sector or something.

3) Even if you get it installed properly via false patch Cycrow's mod manager may effectively overwrite it with another mod--you're definitely going to have to play with load orders or just break down and merge (which should be much easier now due to the way everything is set up in 1.1) the mods if you want it to work.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I won't be able to respond for at least a few more hours; my apologies. Can I get feedback on the install/upgrade instructions from everyone? Are they confusing? Do they just not work? Please post your experiences. Although I'll be gone for the next couple hours/half dayish I WILL intensively support this and make sure everything works--you just have to point me in the direction of what doesn't work.

[Dan101]

Thanks for all your help guys. I did as you said and it worked. Now to test to see if the mod is functioning properly.

Cycrow's tools are very good and make mod management very easy. What the don't do is tell you if you have a conflict. I might try unpacking all the mods I'm using and see if I can find anything amiss. I suspect the issue might have been with the MARS repair drones mod, but I see you have written that they are compatible? Regardless I have removed it and will test to see if it works.

Update: Everything seems to be working fine now. I really appreciate you guys taking time out to help me, thanks very much!

I believe the original issue was with the MARS repair drones mod. I can see on the first page that the 2 mods are compatible so maybe I'm doing something (else) wrong?