[MOD] Missiles Rebalance Mod v1.2, Updated 25/9/2010 [Lost File Appeal]

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Lancefighter
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Post by Lancefighter » Tue, 25. Aug 09, 22:38

the descriptions were just copy pasted from x2.. they were obsolete in x3r too >.>
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imperium3
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Post by imperium3 » Wed, 26. Aug 09, 13:34

I already added new descriptions for certain missiles (including Hornet, Hammerhead and Beluga) in 0.2.

These are the ones I have changed so far:
Hornet wrote:The Hornet Class Missile is among the most powerful weapons known today. The gigantic resources needed to produce this monster also make it extremely expensive [missed this, I'll have to correct it. The missile works by setting off a small nuclear charge causing a reaction between three differing elements that are then combined on impact to create a large explosion powerful enough to disrupt even the largest shields. It is best used in numbers against capital class targets.
Firelance wrote:The Firelance Missile was developed by the Paranid Military as a heavy armour-piercing missile for use by small fighters against much larger targets. However, this missile was phased out of service as the large warhead was considered too much of a liability for the firing ship. Some stockpiles were not accounted for after decommissioning, and have yet to be found.
Beluga wrote:This is the popular Terran missile called the Beluga. It was the standard earth fleet missile used onboard fighter craft, however it has recently been replaced by the Spectre. It is rumoured that some stocks were smuggled into Commonwealth space before decommissioning took place.
Hammerhead wrote:The Hammerhead is a Terran heavy assault missile which was once commonly used on Earth Fleet capital ships. However, in their move towards incorporating more swarm class missiles into their inventory, the USC discarded the Hammerhead in favour of the cheaper and more effective Wraith. The specifications for this missile were subsequently stolen by a group of pirate clans, with whom it has become popular due to its very high yield.
Others (Typhoon, Tornado, Silkworm) just got small corrections.

Please tell me what you think of them, I'm not too sure about the backstories for the Hammerhead and Beluga (I like them, but if you have a better idea please let me know). Whatever I change though, I do try to stay fairly close to Betty's description as I can't change that *sigh*. And yes, Hammerhead really should be a heavy missile, shouldn't it ... I keep feeling nostalgic from when I used to go bombing with them in my Nova though :roll: .
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imperium3
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Post by imperium3 » Tue, 1. Sep 09, 13:55

Missile Rebalance v0.3 released!

Changelog

-Thorn range increased to 48km, as is a torpedo.
-Area missiles (Hurricane, Aurora, Windstalker) AoE reduced (still much larger than vanilla), damage increased.
-Remote Guided Warhead manoeuverability vastly increased, speed upped to 170m/s.
-Banshee missile range increased to 30km and speed to 200m/s as was (imo) absurdly slow and short-ranged.
-Tomahawk and Phantom missiles now take up 8 and 7 cargo space respectively. After a bit of numbercrunching it seemed bizarre that in vanilla a tiny M8 can carry twice as much death as a huge M7M. M8 is still capable of inflicting massive punishment though.
-Cyclone missile now has same retargeting ability as Flail. Damage per warhead reduced to 3k, speed increased to 260k.

As always any feedback/suggestions (good or bad) is welcome.
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djrygar
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Post by djrygar » Tue, 1. Sep 09, 16:00

testing ;)

I still think that missiles should be faster. Medium ones (used most by players) shouldn't be able to catch m5 going like 350m/s, but they should all be in 220-320 range. cyclone damage from 24k to 3k.. and it costs 23kcr... hm.. but maybe this retargeting will make it worth this money. with 24k damage i started to use it as great anticapship weapon - easily passes antimissile fire and gives nice punch. with 3k damage its antifighter only. Let's test it ;D

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imperium3
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Post by imperium3 » Tue, 1. Sep 09, 16:47

TBH the damage should have gone down to 3k with 0.2, but I forgot to change it :oops: . The reason it had to be changed is that at 23k it's very similar to a Typhoon (maybe a bit better actually).

I still think that missiles should be faster. Medium ones (used most by players) shouldn't be able to catch m5 going like 350m/s, but they should all be in 220-320 range.
Agreed. The only danger though is that the missiles end up too fast, because if the likes of a Thunderbolt (say) can easily catch an M4, then the entire class of M4's is obsolete. EDIT: Unless of course the missiles aren't manoeuverable enough to catch an M4. Hey, with that reasoning I could even make the torpedos quite fast as well :roll:

With regard to missile pricing, if the cyclone is to be anti-fighter then it really shouldn't cost 23k (expensive for a missile IIRC). So I'll change it, along with a few others that are a bit odd now. Expect another update soon! :wink:
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djrygar
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Post by djrygar » Tue, 1. Sep 09, 17:00

but cost is connected with cost of producing (amount of resources - ecells, ore, food). So its fixed. Cyclone should have like 5-7k dmg per warhead (usually not all warheads land on target) with retargeting, this will make it worth buing /using

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imperium3
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Post by imperium3 » Tue, 1. Sep 09, 17:21

djrygar wrote:but cost is connected with cost of producing (amount of resources - ecells, ore, food). So its fixed.
Aha! No, it isn't. It can be changed by adjusting something called the "relative value" which affects the price of the missile and the resources required to make it. It's all explained here but I warn you, it gave me a headache trying to understand it.

Version 0.3.1 released! It's mainly a small fix for a few odd prices, but the Cyclone's damage has been improved as well.

Full changelog (such as it is):

-Firefly price increased to approx 900 to reflect increased damage.
-Cyclone price reduced to approx 6700, damage per warhead increased to 4k [1].
-Firelance price doubled as it is now significantly heavier than vanilla.

Linky here: [LINK]


[1] @djrygar: I may increase the damage further but it'll need a bit more testing first. I know what kind of punishment the Flail (5k per warhead) can dish out, so I'll try to make the Cyclone not quite as lethal, though still highly dangerous.
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djrygar
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Post by djrygar » Tue, 1. Sep 09, 20:09

no, I guess 4k is fine, esp with changed price.
2-3k was actually close to wasp (wchich is dirt-cheap), but 20 times more expensive, so that was my problem with it. its very fine now i guess.

as for M4 becoming obsolete. I forgot i'm using ship rebalance :D so some fighters are faster than usual. but I guess you should tune things to vanilla ships.
Agreed. The only danger though is that the missiles end up too fast, because if the likes of a Thunderbolt (say) can easily catch an M4, then the entire class of M4's is obsolete. EDIT: Unless of course the missiles aren't manoeuverable enough to catch an M4. Hey, with that reasoning I could even make the torpedos quite fast as well Rolling Eyes
Of course. Even smaller/medium yield missiles, even fast, are not insta-killers. Speed had its own downsides.
M4 use turrets to destroy missiles and try to shake them down (outmaneuver)
. You can easily see how xenon fighters with their PBEs are efficient in taking down missiles shot at them (xenon fighters are very agile, easily outmaneuver everything besides fast swarm missiles). also - faster missiles have bigger turning radius. Torpedos in BMTC were quite fast (like 170m/c) but you don't end shooteing them at LX - maneuverability and blast radius is one reason, and price is another. It not worth to shoot 80kcr-worth missile at some lousy fighter to get 1000 cr bounty/mission payment, and shooting hammerhead at LX will more likely kill you, not him.

fast missile version of BMTC's mod was simply enjoyable to play with. give it a try and you'll see ( http://www.deadlyshoe.com/x3/bmtcv2m.rar - this is the 'fast' version ). played a lot with it and I ensure you that fast missiles are not balance breakers. Of course you have to remember about lifespan :)

right now I'm in trouble ;) Your mod fixes things that were irritating me (like this 1-unit cargospace hammerheads), but i REALLY miss BMTC speed. They FEEL more like missiles, not bombs. And thats great thing considering we are playing space shooter ;) so shooting should be enjoyable ;)

someone else
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Post by someone else » Tue, 1. Sep 09, 21:42

you wanna increase speed but are worried by missiles getting too... powerful?
nerf the manouverability while raising speed.
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mrscribbler
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Post by mrscribbler » Wed, 7. Oct 09, 09:45

I really like this mod so far. I also have an idea - I've always thought that we could use a fast cap-killer dumbfire that can be fitted on and fired by fighters, starting from an M5.

Something like the following:

Size: 20-30 (S)
Speed (without corkscrew): 400-500 m/s
Speed (with corkscrew): 200 m/s
Range: 1.2 km*
Yield: 400k
Blast Radius: 200 m.**
Load/Reload: 10 sec.***


* Range should be determined by the distance at which fighters break off from an attack on a cap ship. The idea is to force fighters to get up close before they can fire this baby off.
** Might keep the AI from using it in dogfights, but not knowing if that's the case, you might have to go with a slower version to avoid having it wasted on M4s or M3s.
*** Not sure if load/reload can be changed.

It's always struck me odd that the missiles designed to take out low-end fighters are the ones that can be avoided by low-end fighters the easiest (I think I've gotten hit by a firefly missile exactly twice in both X3s), while the ones that are a bigger danger to caps are the easiest in the world to shoot down because they're slow and they attack head-on. You could also make these missiles/torpedoes much deadlier if you caused them to corkscrew. It might not even be too CPU intensive since these missiles would be the last ones to be spammed.

I also think that you could stand to speed up the the poltergeist. It seems a little slow now.

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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Wed, 7. Oct 09, 09:50

Let me know when you consider this finished, and I'll add it into the Merge Mod if your agreeable.

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imperium3
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Post by imperium3 » Wed, 7. Oct 09, 16:08

Ooh, lovely! TBH it still needs a bit of work atm (among other issues I think I may have ruined the Tornado by totally nerfing its speed, and since not all fighters can carry L size, the Firelance is a bit specialised), and that may take a while since I just started uni and things are a bit manic atm :D

I'd love to have my name in the superbox (as part of the merge mod), though I'm not sure if Ego is still taking submissions for that. I pity the poor programmer that has to make XBTF Vista compatible!
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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Thu, 8. Oct 09, 07:29

The superbox was put back a while due to the next patch thats due, so no time constraints at the moment. But the sooner you get it done, the soner it comes out of beta :)

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imperium3
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Post by imperium3 » Tue, 13. Oct 09, 16:22

New version released! Since the mod now includes pretty much all the changes I intend to make (bar a little bit of tinkering), I'm calling this v1.0.

Changes made:

-Overhaul of missiles' speed. Now there are 3 rough categories of missiles:
-Type I: small, light missiles, built primarily with speed and accuracy in mind. Speed generally >450
-Type II: medium missiles, powerful but still small enough to fit on a fighter. Speed is sacrificed for firepower, generally around 250
-Type III: big scary torpedos. Large enough to fit in powerful engines and a large warhead. Not very manoeuvrable though. Speed around 300.

Download link and overview in first post.
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paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler » Wed, 14. Oct 09, 14:07

Hi,

Just installed this - excellent work!

The speed increases really help to make missles (esp. the Hammer) viable again after installing the Missile Defence Mk2 script.

One thing I've noticed - the Wildfire missile is no longer a swarm. Is this expected behaviour?

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