[SCR] OOS Combat Rebalance (alpha 0.32 - 06.08.10)

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Sun, 7. Jun 09, 23:49

wyvern11 wrote:am gaming right now and am looking at the damage logs. They look rather well to me (my vanilla totally overrated springblossoms are dying like flies - which is a good sign (eSSW was a real killer, not anymore))
If I had known you'd be so happy about losing your M6 - I could have achieved that far easier! =P

The SB should still do very well against fighters or drones, especially with 0.23.

But if you order it to attack an M7 or M2 you got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya, punk?


The highest damage I've seen so far from a Q was 2 or 3 millions. I think that was a full "2nd round", so a 30 seconds of fire.
This amassing of seconds could prove a problem. But a problem that can be fixed. $Seconds is just a variable and will do as I say.

The first round of an engagement (anything after a 45+ sec fire break) is capped at 5 sec.
Those are the initial shots fired at long range and this ends the combat round.
Enough to get the attention of your enemy but not instantly fatal.

I haven't seen enough Q vs M2 situations to see what will happen but I will tweak it so that an undamaged M7 has a fair chance against an undamaged M2. Which means one dead M7.

So far I've only had a kaleidoscopic look at the logs. I was more interested in the usability of the formatting than the actual values.
There was the pirate Nova attacking a Raptor (equally brave and stupid) a Disco valiantly poking at the shields of a station and an Elite, actually using 4 mass drivers and hurting that same station. Well, sometime next century but in principle it was hurting it.

One of the cool points is that a parked M2 without orders (or just passing through) is never taken out by a lone M4.
The M2 will shoot back. And an M4 is not dressed for that... occasion.
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wyvern11
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Post by wyvern11 » Mon, 8. Jun 09, 08:08

The SB should still do very well against fighters or drones, especially with 0.23.
well, excellent ... just the right weapon to cheaply hold zyarth's dominion

##########################

Sector defense out of Service

Battle group under construction

##########################


gonna do a grep-search over "total-damage" to get a notion about the damage horizon to expect

some bits of info :
M6 armed with mainly battery2-types : 100K+ total damage (P, springblossom)
M6 armed with mainly battery1-types : 600K+ (PX)
M7 had some 700K+ to 1.2M+

Maybe more this evening (left it running for some hours)
M6
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wyvern11
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Post by wyvern11 » Mon, 8. Jun 09, 17:08

or now :

damage averages look well balanced to me. A well equipped M7 would survive about three rounds against a destroyer and do significant shield damage - two to three would stand a chance to win with losses

Code: Select all


M1 :avg. shield damage : 577287 avg. hull damage 158059   max shield damage 1677000
M2 :avg. shield damage : 1081820 avg. hull damage 342825  max shield damage 2643852

M3 :avg. shield damage : 50724.5 avg. hull damage 6930.65  max shield damage 317216
M4 :avg. shield damage : 7475.84 avg. hull damage 293.732  max shield damage 98319
M5 : not enough data

M6 : avg. shield damage : 270852 avg. hull damage 28187.4  max shield damage 633952
M7 :avg. shield damage : 362354 avg. hull damage 84973.4  max shield damage 993152

EDIT


better bash for windows:

http://cygwin.com

has grep sed awk inbuilt - will test if my scripts run with cygwin-bash and report
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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Mon, 8. Jun 09, 19:33

The damage of a specific ship will be constant but it has 3 possible values.

Against little, big, and huge ships.

I have uploaded a new version that
adds target.size.class and seconds.of.fire to the ;total damage; log line.

That will make it easier to get a general idea on the damage output of ships in one line without any creative parsing.
Without knowing the burst length you could see anything from a 1 sec burst to a 30 sec burst...

The seconds.of.fire are not a constant. The script definitely adapts to the crazy timing of OOS combat.
I've seen some random M6 fire a 7 sec burst at something and I never assigned any such odd number.
It just... worked out that way.

target.size.class is also important because a given ship has up tp 3 different "damages".


Random observation:
M2 vs M3 is still a guaranteed instakill. Even a 3 sec burst of counterfire would take out an Eclipse.
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thunderai
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Post by thunderai » Mon, 8. Jun 09, 20:19

I'ts probably a joke, but I don't recall Mass Drivers doing any damage against shields. If the elite and the mass drivers are all thats attacking the station wouldn't the shield regeneration of the station outweight the damage output of any single fighter weapon?

Lancefighter
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Post by Lancefighter » Mon, 8. Jun 09, 20:20

how does this mesh with oos combat?
I assume the game combat will somehow happen, even with your script... or does it manipulate the orders of oos ships somehow to achieve this effect?

aka1nas
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Post by aka1nas » Mon, 8. Jun 09, 21:41

Lancefighter wrote:how does this mesh with oos combat?
I assume the game combat will somehow happen, even with your script... or does it manipulate the orders of oos ships somehow to achieve this effect?
Gazz can explain in more detail, but basically he is overriding the scripts that Ego uses to apply damage in OOS combat and replacing it with his script that does so in a more balanced manner.

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Post by Lancefighter » Mon, 8. Jun 09, 21:53

aka1nas wrote:
Lancefighter wrote:how does this mesh with oos combat?
I assume the game combat will somehow happen, even with your script... or does it manipulate the orders of oos ships somehow to achieve this effect?
Gazz can explain in more detail, but basically he is overriding the scripts that Ego uses to apply damage in OOS combat and replacing it with his script that does so in a more balanced manner.
Ohh
so scripts run OOS combat? I never knew that, i figured it was part of the game code

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Mon, 8. Jun 09, 23:41

thunderai wrote:I'ts probably a joke, but I don't recall Mass Drivers doing any damage against shields. If the elite and the mass drivers are all thats attacking the station wouldn't the shield regeneration of the station outweight the damage output of any single fighter weapon?
You're kinda contradicting yourself there.

Lancefighter wrote:Ohh
so scripts run OOS combat? I never knew that, i figured it was part of the game code
Well, it is hardcoded. I just decided to disable the whole OOS combat system and replace it with my own.

This script completely replaces all forms of OOS combat.
It happens at my conditions or not at all.

Only scripts that run their own fight routines (like CODEA) still use the old system and end up massivlely overpowered when fighting ships that do only their IS damage.
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wyvern11
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Post by wyvern11 » Mon, 8. Jun 09, 23:56

Code: Select all

749016  XM7VI-61  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  182640  hull  41824  pierce  0
749019  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  113410  hull  26820  pierce  0
749021  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  45364  hull  10728  pierce  0
749051  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  680460  hull  160920  pierce  0
749124  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  113410  hull  26820  pierce  0
749175  XM7GJ-40  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  117570  hull  28185  pierce  0
749249  XM7VI-55  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  115255  hull  27185  pierce  0
749255  XM7GJ-40  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  117570  hull  28185  pierce  0
749267  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  116350  hull  28320  pierce  0
749270  XM7NP-41  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  112855  hull  26900  pierce  0
749281  XM7AJ-54  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  113240  hull  25915  pierce  0
749297  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  698100  hull  169920  pierce  0
749300  XM7NP-41  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  677130  hull  161400  pierce  0
749319  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  511940  hull  124608  pierce  0
749320  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  113410  hull  26820  pierce  0
749343  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  558480  hull  135936  pierce  0
749349  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  657778  hull  155556  pierce  0
749353  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  232700  hull  56640  pierce  0
749377  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  558480  hull  135936  pierce  0
749435  XM7NP-41  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  112855  hull  26900  pierce  0
749465  XM7NP-41  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  677130  hull  161400  pierce  0
749468  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  499460  hull  101485  pierce  0
749481  XM7VI-55  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  115255  hull  27185  pierce  0
749487  XM7VI-61  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  114150  hull  26140  pierce  0
749499  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  721370  hull  175584  pierce  0
749518  XM7VI-61  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  707730  hull  162068  pierce  0
749530  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  113410  hull  26820  pierce  0
749530  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  721370  hull  175584  pierce  0
749544  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  317548  hull  75096  pierce  0
749592  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  116350  hull  28320  pierce  0
749595  XM7WI-58  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  113285  hull  27430  pierce  0
749657  XM7VI-61  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  114150  hull  26140  pierce  0
749677  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  113410  hull  26820  pierce  0
749678  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  116350  hull  28320  pierce  0
749688  XM7VI-61  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  707730  hull  162068  pierce  0
749698  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  465400  hull  113280  pierce  0
749708  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  703142  hull  166284  pierce  0
749709  XM7NP-41  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  112855  hull  26900  pierce  0
749719  XM7VI-61  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  707730  hull  162068  pierce  0
749798  XM7VI-61  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  114150  hull  26140  pierce  0
749799  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  113410  hull  26820  pierce  0
749822  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  116350  hull  28320  pierce  0
749842  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  465400  hull  113280  pierce  0
749898  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  116350  hull  28320  pierce  0
749907  XM7WI-36  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  209430  hull  50976  pierce  0
749929  XM7VI-61  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  114150  hull  26140  pierce  0
749936  XM7GJ-40  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  117570  hull  28185  pierce  0
749941  XM7GJ-40  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  117570  hull  28185  pierce  0
749942  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  113410  hull  26820  pierce  0
749951  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  204138  hull  48276  pierce  0
749982  XM7XD-31  Xenon_Q  total_damage  Shield  703142  hull  166284  pierce  0
Targetsize and exposure time (seconds.of.fire) are nice to know - else calculation of damage.per.round is not as easy...

that means only IS-CODEA for me (which is OK) - and time to rethink / refit SRS (or make lucike rethink?? / repent ) :lol:
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Lancefighter
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Post by Lancefighter » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 00:24

ok..

I assume this works in conjunction with cmod3? assuming, of course, that you have the proper cmod3/mars text files?

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Post by thunderai » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 00:54

Gazz wrote:
thunderai wrote:I'ts probably a joke, but I don't recall Mass Drivers doing any damage against shields. If the elite and the mass drivers are all thats attacking the station wouldn't the shield regeneration of the station outweight the damage output of any single fighter weapon?
You're kinda contradicting yourself there.
How so, you said...

a Disco valiantly poking at the shields of a station and an Elite, actually using 4 mass drivers and hurting that same station. Well, sometime next century but in principle it was hurting it.

My question was, is the damage caused by the disco enough to even eare down the shields, I would think the shield regeneration would be faster than the damage caused.

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Post by PWAGGO » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 02:32

Thunderai I think the contradiction is in terms of the Mass driver by passes shields and so the regeneration of them matters not

Gazz I have run the script for a day now and it is seriously lags my game when I restored back to before the script installation it runs fine is there a way of fixing this?

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Post by thunderai » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 04:25

PWAGGO wrote:Thunderai I think the contradiction is in terms of the Mass driver by passes shields and so the regeneration of them matters not

Gazz I have run the script for a day now and it is seriously lags my game when I restored back to before the script installation it runs fine is there a way of fixing this?
Oh, well thats new, I didn't know that... good to know.

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Post by homerdog » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 06:57

This may be a silly question but I'd like to know. If I understand correctly MARS selects the most powerful lasers OOS. Wouldn't this work against what this mod is trying to accomplish? Or have you accounted for that?

Thanks for all your work Gazz. :thumb_up:

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 07:29

PWAGGO wrote:I have run the script for a day now and it is seriously lags my game when I restored back to before the script installation it runs fine is there a way of fixing this?
If your computer is too slow to run it - no.

This is an alpha version. Efficiency is not even considered.

homerdog wrote:This may be a silly question but I'd like to know. If I understand correctly MARS selects the most powerful lasers OOS. Wouldn't this work against what this mod is trying to accomplish? Or have you accounted for that?
Pretty much all ships have light and heavy turrets so there will automatically be a laser mix.

The Boreas can mount 100% capital ship lasers but the use of IBL in 2 turrets is the main balancing issue with this ship so you should be perfectly fine without any IBL.
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Post by homerdog » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 07:38

Gazz wrote:Pretty much all ships have light and heavy turrets so there will automatically be a laser mix.

The Boreas can mount 100% capital ship lasers but the use of IBL in 2 turrets is the main balancing issue with this ship so you should be perfectly fine without any IBL.
Right, but say for example an M2 is taking on 10 M3s. The M2 has PPCs and flak, enough of each to load all of its turrets. If it's running MARS will it default to the PPCs in this situation OOS? With the original OOS formulas that would be preferred, but with your mod I understand the flak would be better..

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Post by apricotslice » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 07:50

What about when a mod has removed all "laser mix" from the ship ? Ie. Its carrying either all PPC's or all PBE's for example.

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Post by MutantDwarf » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 09:21

What about when a mod has removed all "laser mix" from the ship ? Ie. Its carrying either all PPC's or all PBE's for example.
Then, just like in-sector, it won't be very good against certain classes of targets. A capital ship with only PPCs won't be as good against fighters as it would be if it carried only flak guns, for example, and probably won't be as good as if it carried half PPCs and half Flak.

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Post by PWAGGO » Tue, 9. Jun 09, 09:55

Gazz wrote: If your computer is too slow to run it - no.
Lol I love simple answers the spec of my PC is not bad but admittedly could be better.
Gazz wrote:This is an alpha version. Efficiency is not even considered.
I will await the final release then or until I get more memory for my Quad Core

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