[SCR] OOS Combat Rebalance (alpha 0.32 - 06.08.10)
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These are the figures with "average" evasion but that doesn't mean I couldn't tone them down further for small ships.
An M2 simply has silly firepower if it concentrates on something as fragile as a fighter...
Under the current system an M2 could annihilate about 4-5 fighters per round - only using counterfire.
I have a feeling that this killing speed is too much. =)
Most (2/3) of the huge ships' damage comes from their medium battery which is counted at 60 % vs fighters.
This percentage is used for any laser that attacks something "1 level smaller", such as PPC vs M6.
If I reduce that to then cap ship damage vs fighters drops considerably.
An M2 simply has silly firepower if it concentrates on something as fragile as a fighter...
Under the current system an M2 could annihilate about 4-5 fighters per round - only using counterfire.
I have a feeling that this killing speed is too much. =)
Most (2/3) of the huge ships' damage comes from their medium battery which is counted at 60 % vs fighters.
This percentage is used for any laser that attacks something "1 level smaller", such as PPC vs M6.
If I reduce that to then cap ship damage vs fighters drops considerably.
Last edited by Gazz on Tue, 9. Jun 09, 18:36, edited 1 time in total.
My complete script download page. . . . . . I AM THE LAW!
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
I was under the impression that CF would divide up between the attacking M3Is the counterfire too heavy?
My intention was to damage attacking small ships/drones but not instantly incinerate anything that touches a capital ship.
M1/M2 firing for 5 sec hit a fighter for 200.000-500.000 damage.
So M1/M2 would be able to scratch 3-6 Fighters per CF. This is not nice for the Fighters but sounds realistic. modern gunships attacking a SAM-site having it's full attention should have an equal survival rate.
there will be a random and an evade-skill affixed to the CF-damage - maybe you can make this steep enough that *real good* pilots get a chance while noobs get torn to pieces (The average WW-pilot survived a handful of missions at best)
only updated to newest version now
this is how it was in previous:
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row: time ship seconds
20101:749992 IM3SA-32 30
20107:749993 IM3IW-88 31
20108:749993 IM3IW-88 31
20114:749996 ADRDB-70 30
20115:749996 ADRDB-70 30
20121:749997 IM3SA-32 5
20122:749997 IM3SA-32 5
micha@Administrator ~
$ sed 's/ /_/g;s/;/ /g' /cygdrive/c/Users/micha/Documents/Egosoft/X3TC/log01338.txt | grep -n add | awk '$5>0 {print $1, $2, $13 }' | awk '$4=check {check=$4; print $1, $2, $3} '
<nothing found>
Redest du noch - oder denkst du schon ?
Well, it does divide.wyvern11 wrote:I was under the impression that CF would divide up between the attacking M3
So M1/M2 would be able to scratch 3-6 Fighters per CF. This is not nice for the Fighters but sounds realistic. modern gunships attacking a SAM-site having it's full attention should have an equal survival rate.
The maximum that any battery has for "a round" is 30 sec.
If the last round was > 45 sec ago, it's counted as a new engagement, which is capped at 5 sec for the first round.
If Seconds.Remaining <= CF.Burst.Length
then no CF is allowed.
So no CF during the first round of an engagement.
If the M2 is attacked by 2 fighters:
- Round 1: the M2 is hit by both fighters, not firing back because it only has 5 sec, saving that for the main target
- Round 2: the M2 now has 30 sec available and uses 5 each to CF when attacked by each fighter
- Round 2: the M2 fires the remaining 20 sec at whatever it decides to attack
it also fires it's main gun for 30 sec against the same target
That's the theory...
So if you saturate a ship with drones along with the fighters, there's a chance that the drones will attack first and therefore soak some of the counterfire.
Yes, I want some skill based damage mitigation(always) and avoidance (rare).wyvern11 wrote:there will be a random and an evade-skill affixed to the CF-damage - maybe you can make this steep enough that *real good* pilots get a chance while noobs get torn to pieces (The average WW-pilot survived a handful of missions at best)
Avoidance and mitigation don't need to be constant, either.
Everquest uses these to balance the melee classes.
Real tanks (tm) have high mitigation, resulting in low but constant damage that the healers can rely on and keep up with.
Involuntary tanks like rangers and whatnot have high avoidance allowing them to often well... avoid getting hit. But if that fails it hurts. Really bad. So they can tank in a pinch but that keeps the healer on his toes.
X3 fighters would clearly use mostly avoidance, which would be based on speed (size?) as the "main attribute".
Dancing around PPC bullets is fine but if you do get hit, it's not funny.
An M2 is built to get hit. It's the main tank of our party.
Avoidance? Pah! Gimme your best shot!
M2 could get mitigation, making them the tough cookies they are supposed to be.
Variable evasion systems can probably be tailored to our needs easier than one "formula to rule them all".
Last edited by Gazz on Sat, 13. Jun 09, 12:10, edited 1 time in total.
My complete script download page. . . . . . I AM THE LAW!
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
so what you describe is actually as is to be expected: a cloud of fighters attacking flak wielding target :
round by round the cap-ship slowly erodes the attack wings. do take in mind that eventual capitals accompanying the fighter wings get less fire. or ships wielding more cap-ship-weapons are more effective in big gun battles
so still nothing found
yeah maybe you better (for look and feel reasons). but realistically not much fighters return from a determinedly defended capship
first wave of americans at midway had 6 planes return out of more than 40....
EDIT
M7-CF is not that deadly [/code]
round by round the cap-ship slowly erodes the attack wings. do take in mind that eventual capitals accompanying the fighter wings get less fire. or ships wielding more cap-ship-weapons are more effective in big gun battles
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3817:751313 XM7NP-41 11
3818:751313 XM7NP-41 11
3825:751313 BM4XP-41 30
3826:751313 BM4XP-41 30
micha@Administrator ~
$ sed 's/ /_/g;s/;/ /g' /cygdrive/c/Users/micha/Documents/Egosoft/X3TC/log01338.txt | grep -n add | awk '$5>0 {print $1, $2, $13 }' | awk '$4=check {check=$4; print $1, $2, $3} '
micha@Administrator ~
$
Most (2/3) of the huge ships' damage comes from their medium battery which is counted at 60 % vs fighters.
This percentage is used for any laser that attacks something "1 level smaller", such as PPC vs M6.
If I reduce that to then cap ship damage vs fighters drops considerably.
yeah maybe you better (for look and feel reasons). but realistically not much fighters return from a determinedly defended capship
first wave of americans at midway had 6 planes return out of more than 40....
EDIT
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3584:751187 XM7NP-41 Xenon_Q CF:_add_battery 1 shield_DPS 13576 hull_DPS 4696 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 0 Effectivity_Perc 60
3603:751187 XM7XD-31 Xenon_Q CF:_add_battery 1 shield_DPS 13300 hull_DPS 4606 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 5 Effectivity_Perc 60
3626:751204 XM7WI-36 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 15280 hull_DPS 5265 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 5 Effectivity_Perc 60
3664:751217 XM7NP-41 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 13576 hull_DPS 4696 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 31 Effectivity_Perc 60
3788:751302 XM7NP-41 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 13576 hull_DPS 4696 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 5 Effectivity_Perc 60
3818:751313 XM7NP-41 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 13576 hull_DPS 4696 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 11 Effectivity_Perc 60
3894:751386 XM7VI-55 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 12466 hull_DPS 4489 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 5 Effectivity_Perc 100
3956:751418 XM7WI-58 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 13447 hull_DPS 4843 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 5 Effectivity_Perc 100
4058:751449 XM7WI-58 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 13447 hull_DPS 4843 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 31 Effectivity_Perc 60
4074:751450 XM7WI-36 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 15280 hull_DPS 5265 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 5 Effectivity_Perc 60
4105:751454 XM7SV-09 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 14774 hull_DPS 5321 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 5 Effectivity_Perc 60
4127:751460 XM7WI-36 Xenon_Q add_battery 1 shield_DPS 15280 hull_DPS 5265 pierce_DPS 0 sec_left 10 Effectivity_Perc 60
M7-CF is not that deadly [/code]
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That's the master plan behind it. =)wyvern11 wrote:round by round the cap-ship slowly erodes the attack wings. do take in mind that eventual capitals accompanying the fighter wings get less fire. or ships wielding more cap-ship-weapons are more effective in big gun battles
A ship like a Boreas using 100% PPC/IBL would not be able to counterfire at all and would have to kill fighters the "old way", destroying one per round.
And if a carrier (or a ship with drones) attacks a more regular M2 - which often equip a large number of medium lasers (CIG) - then a sizable chunk of the M2's firepower can be soaked by fighters / drones.
That's what offsets the carrier's enforced (by me =) reduction of firepower.
The carrier is actively protected because it's fighters tie a number of the enemy's guns.
The MARS drone principle - just in a strategy game variant. =)
A more tactical game where carriers work with their fighters. Not just either or.
And the beauty of it is - the X3 AI does not need to learn this. They already do that except that it never had a deeper purpose. =)
It's just no fun losing 5 (player) fighters to an M2 - because of the micromanagement involved in replacing them.yeah maybe you better (for look and feel reasons). but realistically not much fighters return from a determinedly defended capship
I saw one LX do 1 million shield damage in a 30 sec round.
So it would take 600+ fighters to one-round an M2... (not counting missiles =)
With 60 fighters you need 10 rounds, during which your fighters are reduced to smoking wrecks, most likely failing to destroy the target because of the erosion of numbers.
I think we need a balancing goal.
X Nova Raider should be able to destroy an M2 of suchandsuch type with Y losses.
Some ballpark values to aim for.
We can use arbitrary mitigation / avoidance values until the numbers fit.
Then these skill boni can be gained somehow.
Be it by speed, pilot skill, target size class, object class... whatever.
But first we need a clear idea of what we want the result to be. =)
My first step was merely to assign relatively accurate damage values.
That's a good start because it removes the insane peaks we'd get from the vanilla OOS damage.
But the eventual balance will be... what it needs to be. The damage values are just raw data.
Any carrier users out there?
What is the expected fatality rate (IS) when destroying an M2 solely with fighters?
Ideally a MARS M2 because the vanilla M2 more or less goof around, waiting for the big flash. If they destroy a fighter it's mostly by coincidence.
Hmmkay.M7-CF is not that deadly
Roughly 40k shield damage from the M7 CF.
So we can probably concentrate on the M1/2 that are bristling with guns.
Maybe assign them a smaller CF.Burst.Length so they'd spread their fire more...
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1. do codea-carriers count?
b) how can I determine a MARS-opponent (besides it hurts more) AI use MARS = true is obvious
you should ask this in the codea-threads - seems like *there* is a better carrier-user-density. I only had one encounter panther + 8 spitfyre + 8 cutlass against two hoshi : one spitfyre lost (got run over... hehe)
but i guess it was because i was in range and fighters largely ignored
2.
EDIT: how can one get the base-DPS-values of the weapons?
b) how can I determine a MARS-opponent (besides it hurts more) AI use MARS = true is obvious
you should ask this in the codea-threads - seems like *there* is a better carrier-user-density. I only had one encounter panther + 8 spitfyre + 8 cutlass against two hoshi : one spitfyre lost (got run over... hehe)
but i guess it was because i was in range and fighters largely ignored
2.
looks like a good decision to me. a frigate has to concentrate CF or it harms many and kills none.Hmmkay.
Roughly 40k shield damage from the M7 CF.
So we can probably concentrate on the M1/2 that are bristling with guns.
Maybe assign them a smaller CF.Burst.Length so they'd spread their fire more...
EDIT: how can one get the base-DPS-values of the weapons?
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If you enable that, all AI big ships will use MARS.wyvern11 wrote:b) how can I determine a MARS-opponent (besides it hurts more) AI use MARS = true is obvious
Fighters will not.
Yah, true.you should ask this in the codea-threads - seems like *there* is a better carrier-user-density. I only had one encounter panther + 8 spitfyre + 8 cutlass against two hoshi : one spitfyre lost (got run over... hehe)
Good question. They don't show in any logs and the damage values are modified by bullet speed to account for delivered damage as well as special effects like PSG. (yes, PSG can actually be useful OOS)EDIT: how can one get the base-DPS-values of the weapons?
I'll have to find a way to data dump them somehow. Maybe with a script call from the setup.
But not today. Too tired to think about numbers greater than 5. =)
My complete script download page. . . . . . I AM THE LAW!
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
How about an "overwhelm"-Bonus for attacking fighter squadrons?
If a M2 can concentrate on one fighter its dust. If there are 2 or 3, they are dust. But if there are much more fighters than turrets (like 60 fighters from a carrier), the M2 gets "overwhelmed" and gets a lowered effectiveness.
Maybe if fighters = number of turrets * 2 will be a good choice
Only question is how to realize that.
If a M2 can concentrate on one fighter its dust. If there are 2 or 3, they are dust. But if there are much more fighters than turrets (like 60 fighters from a carrier), the M2 gets "overwhelmed" and gets a lowered effectiveness.
Maybe if fighters = number of turrets * 2 will be a good choice
Only question is how to realize that.
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My measuring stick against fighters here is the MARS M2. The Vanilla M2 is not using it's lasers for good effect and I wouldn't want to model the OOS combat after an insufficient turret script.Marodeur wrote:How about an "overwhelm"-Bonus for attacking fighter squadrons?
If a M2 can concentrate on one fighter its dust. If there are 2 or 3, they are dust. But if there are much more fighters than turrets (like 60 fighters from a carrier), the M2 gets "overwhelmed" and gets a lowered effectiveness.
If fighters are allowed to use their weapons efficiently, the M2 must be allowed as well.
Now what's happening if you send 30 fighters instad of 15 is a higher fatality / minute.
Overwhelming? Hah! You couldn't do a MARS M2 a greater favour than putting it into a target rich environment.
With 15 fighters you may have 4 good and 2 excellent targets. With 30, you'd have 4 excellent targets...
And as some CODEA users have already commented, a MARS M2 does bad things to fighter wings.
Hmmm yummy! Fighter wings! (*pluck* *munch*)
How bad? I don't have enough data, yet, since I never did any serious tests in TC. I only have the results from early development with Reunion.
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There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Well, this isn't about if MARS is too good or not.Marodeur wrote:Maybe Mars is "to effective" for X3 TC, M2 shouldnt be jack-of-all-trades (in my opinion). Thats maybe one reason i dont use Mars to give the fighters a chance. ;)
At the moment I'm only interested in the OOS balance and what it should represent.
Fighters are reasonably effective IS. If you tell them to attack a cap ship they do nothing else (for the most part) but fire at this ship.
So the fighter AI works but the M2 turret AI is early stone age.
It attacks... something random. Whatever it can see, whatever is closest.
And it keeps shooting at this (fighter) target as long as it's in view and flying circles.
So most of the time it's shooting holes into space while the fighters do something useful... and kill the M2.
Is that how it "should be"?
MARS uses the existing capabilities of M2 and only corrects the "I" in the turret AI so turrets do something useful, too - just like the fighters.
Of course one can argue that M2 were never balanced for being able to use all these lasers they have while fighters had been balanced under the assumption that they would actually use their lasers against the target...
In a "MARS universe", I would definitely consider weakening the anti-fighter capability of M2.
Right now it looks kinda like this. (on a good day =)
My complete script download page. . . . . . I AM THE LAW!
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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Version 0.25 released.
Scripts updated with the changes from TC 2.1.
No functional changes.
Scripts updated with the changes from TC 2.1.
No functional changes.
My complete script download page. . . . . . I AM THE LAW!
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
scary movie...
thanks for the 2.1 hint. depending on time i'll do some tests with spawned ships (otherwise only Q's in the log)
*Single* Attack run of 15 M3* (8 cutlass, 7 spitfyre) on a MARS Brigantine IS: two cutlass and a spitfyre lost, one spitfyre severely damaged (looked like plasmaburst)
EDIT:
One Battle, Zeus didn't return fire... Still over sorta fast :
OnBoard-Weapons
thanks for the 2.1 hint. depending on time i'll do some tests with spawned ships (otherwise only Q's in the log)
*Single* Attack run of 15 M3* (8 cutlass, 7 spitfyre) on a MARS Brigantine IS: two cutlass and a spitfyre lost, one spitfyre severely damaged (looked like plasmaburst)
EDIT:
One Battle, Zeus didn't return fire... Still over sorta fast :
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754181;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;ATTACK;Trinity Sanctum;PM1RL-53;Paranid Military Zeus
754181;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add battery;2;shield DPS;419872;hull DPS;74292;pierce DPS;0;sec left;5;Effectivity Perc;100
754181;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add battery;1;shield DPS;0;hull DPS;0;pierce DPS;0;sec left;5;Effectivity Perc;110
754181;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add battery;0;shield DPS;0;hull DPS;0;pierce DPS;0;sec left;5;Effectivity Perc;120
754181;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;total damage;Shield;2099360;hull;371460;pierce;0;t.size.class;2;sec;5
754181;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;Target status;PM1RL-53;Paranid Military Zeus;Shields;5000000;Hull;400000
754181;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;Lasers fired at;PM1RL-53;Paranid Military Zeus;Shields left;2900640;Hull left;400000
754193;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;ATTACK;Trinity Sanctum;PM1RL-53;Paranid Military Zeus
754193;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add battery;2;shield DPS;419872;hull DPS;74292;pierce DPS;0;sec left;12;Effectivity Perc;100
754193;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add battery;1;shield DPS;0;hull DPS;0;pierce DPS;0;sec left;12;Effectivity Perc;110
754193;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add battery;0;shield DPS;0;hull DPS;0;pierce DPS;0;sec left;12;Effectivity Perc;120
754193;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;total damage;Shield;5038464;hull;891504;pierce;0;t.size.class;2;sec;12
754193;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;Target status;PM1RL-53;Paranid Military Zeus;Shields;2916240;Hull;400000
754193;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;Lasers fired at;PM1RL-53;Paranid Military Zeus;Shields left;0;Hull left;25570
754196;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;ATTACK;Trinity Sanctum;PM1RL-53;Paranid Military Zeus
754196;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add battery;2;shield DPS;419872;hull DPS;74292;pierce DPS;0;sec left;3;Effectivity Perc;100
754196;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add battery;1;shield DPS;0;hull DPS;0;pierce DPS;0;sec left;3;Effectivity Perc;110
754196;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add battery;0;shield DPS;0;hull DPS;0;pierce DPS;0;sec left;3;Effectivity Perc;120
754196;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;total damage;Shield;1259616;hull;222876;pierce;0;t.size.class;2;sec;3
754196;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;Target status;PM1RL-53;Paranid Military Zeus;Shields;0;Hull;25570
754196;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;Lasers fired at;PM1RL-53;Paranid Military Zeus;Shields left;0;Hull left;0;DESTROYED
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754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;Get config data;Main Ver;25;My Ver; null;Var;GZ.OOSD.SHIP.DATA;Data;NOT FOUND
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;Laser.Setup;Dmg Perc;105;Fight Skill;20;Trade Skill;0;Is.Freighter;0;Hangars;0;Skill Dmg Bonus;5
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add laser;105;Incendiary Bomb Launcher
754084;XM1FI-05;Xenon Small Orbital Weapons Platform;add DPS;2;419872;74292;0;54;Incendiary Bomb Launcher;Amount:;1680
Redest du noch - oder denkst du schon ?
Version 0.28 released.
No counterfire.
Main battery Attacks have to be ordered by the fight script. Only it controls the main batteries.
Still - 15 sec is fast.
Hmm. That OWP had an effective 16.8 IBL and 400000 shield DPS.
It is supposed to have half that because they are turreted so the resulting DPS would be half that number.
In the OWP attack script I let the OWP cheat a bit and attack at longer range, them being stationary guns and all.
They are bolted to the vacuum and therefore have a steadier aim. Or somesuch.
Depending on the OOS timing, a ship might spend up to 30 sec "approaching" while the OWP can already fire.
This might make attacking a Large OWP interesting. Alas, many of them are only lightly equipped. Not remotely enough IBL to give them a proper bite. A L OWP could have 48 IBL.
Now there's a proper fortress!
Do you feel lucky, punk? =)
In vanilla X3, OWP wouldn't attack at all OOS so I guess noone noticed how powerful they could be...
Damage from turrets is now halved (oops) so the counterfire to fighters just got a lot less heavy.
- On a version upgrade a log 1340 is created.
It contains the full laser list with damage values as they are used by OOSD.
Actual ship damages are still modified for "cockpit laser", carrier, or pilot skill.
Given DPS values are used as is - against their corresponding target.ship.class.
"speed corrected %" has already been figured in.
It only shows at what hit % (and therefore damage %) this laser is operating.
It's easy to see how the faster lasers are more efficient. - All DPS from turrets is halved as intended.
A turret can only cover 180°.
An OWP (huge target) would need to be "intentionally" attacked by the Zeus.wyvern11 wrote:One Battle, Zeus didn't return fire... Still over sorta fast :
No counterfire.
Main battery Attacks have to be ordered by the fight script. Only it controls the main batteries.
Still - 15 sec is fast.
Hmm. That OWP had an effective 16.8 IBL and 400000 shield DPS.
It is supposed to have half that because they are turreted so the resulting DPS would be half that number.
In the OWP attack script I let the OWP cheat a bit and attack at longer range, them being stationary guns and all.
They are bolted to the vacuum and therefore have a steadier aim. Or somesuch.
Depending on the OOS timing, a ship might spend up to 30 sec "approaching" while the OWP can already fire.
This might make attacking a Large OWP interesting. Alas, many of them are only lightly equipped. Not remotely enough IBL to give them a proper bite. A L OWP could have 48 IBL.
Now there's a proper fortress!
Do you feel lucky, punk? =)
In vanilla X3, OWP wouldn't attack at all OOS so I guess noone noticed how powerful they could be...
Damage from turrets is now halved (oops) so the counterfire to fighters just got a lot less heavy.
My complete script download page. . . . . . I AM THE LAW!
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
There is no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Very interesting initiative. Just a few comments that follow the spirit "OOS as close to IS as possible":
Laser fire evasion is a must to model
A human pilot on X3 (That knows how to strafe) can represent what an Elite AI skilled pilot would do and... Are you hit usually by a Cap battery (MARS equiped or not) on a fast (and small fighter)? No... The number of batteries shot from the same enemy is irrelevant, all can be dodged by the same pattern... Specially if the fighter pilot keeps his distance and uses overloaded Cockpit laser bursts at max distance.
The AI doesn't strafe at all and lacks a "bomber logic" like the above programmed into it, but even like this, speed, size and (paradoxically) shorter laser ranges play a role on AI evasion... All of this, OFC, compared to a single quality of the firing battery... Bullet Speed.
What follows will be a proposal on how to calculate the evasion chances of an average figther (That uses the dumb AI they all have IS) (All units in meters or meters/second). The logic used is a comparison between Time to Hit (TTH) and Time to Evade (TTE):
TTH: LR / BS
TTE: HS / SS
Evasion Factor (EF): TTH / TTE
Where:
LR: Laser Range of the Attacking Fighter
BS: Bullet Speed of the Shooting Battery
HS: Hull Length in the direction of movement
SS: Attacking Fighter Speed
The actual chances can be calculated using different conversions between EF and real chances to avoid completely a hit. The proposal I will give is just a tabular example (the numbers are just a guide and OFC subject to fine tuning):
EF
1-: 0%
2-: 10%
4-: 20%
8-: 40%
12-: 60%
20-: 80%
20+: 90%
There are a lot of details and rationale to explain still and some tricks to speed-up a calculation process like the above... But the post is already big enough so I will add them if there is interest on an idea like this.
Laser fire evasion is a must to model
A human pilot on X3 (That knows how to strafe) can represent what an Elite AI skilled pilot would do and... Are you hit usually by a Cap battery (MARS equiped or not) on a fast (and small fighter)? No... The number of batteries shot from the same enemy is irrelevant, all can be dodged by the same pattern... Specially if the fighter pilot keeps his distance and uses overloaded Cockpit laser bursts at max distance.
The AI doesn't strafe at all and lacks a "bomber logic" like the above programmed into it, but even like this, speed, size and (paradoxically) shorter laser ranges play a role on AI evasion... All of this, OFC, compared to a single quality of the firing battery... Bullet Speed.
What follows will be a proposal on how to calculate the evasion chances of an average figther (That uses the dumb AI they all have IS) (All units in meters or meters/second). The logic used is a comparison between Time to Hit (TTH) and Time to Evade (TTE):
TTH: LR / BS
TTE: HS / SS
Evasion Factor (EF): TTH / TTE
Where:
LR: Laser Range of the Attacking Fighter
BS: Bullet Speed of the Shooting Battery
HS: Hull Length in the direction of movement
SS: Attacking Fighter Speed
The actual chances can be calculated using different conversions between EF and real chances to avoid completely a hit. The proposal I will give is just a tabular example (the numbers are just a guide and OFC subject to fine tuning):
EF
1-: 0%
2-: 10%
4-: 20%
8-: 40%
12-: 60%
20-: 80%
20+: 90%
There are a lot of details and rationale to explain still and some tricks to speed-up a calculation process like the above... But the post is already big enough so I will add them if there is interest on an idea like this.
@gazz I didn't expect the Zeus to CF (misunderstanding), I just expected him to fire at all by regular script. Because my outfitting script maximizes the loadout, OK, my fault (poor Zeus).
Will check again with random / default weaponry
@ragamer evasion is not yet part of the alpha, but has been discussed at length in the "planning-thread" mentioned in first post. feel free to discuss / add your ideas to the solutions posted there
Will check again with random / default weaponry
@ragamer evasion is not yet part of the alpha, but has been discussed at length in the "planning-thread" mentioned in first post. feel free to discuss / add your ideas to the solutions posted there
Redest du noch - oder denkst du schon ?
I will add the post to the "planning thread" in a more detailed way... I just added the note about evasion because you are already trying to fine tune damage applied on fighters WITHOUT simulating evasion...
...Meaning that you will have to do the job again, as fighters will be receiving less damage once ANY decent evasion model is in place.
...Meaning that you will have to do the job again, as fighters will be receiving less damage once ANY decent evasion model is in place.