[MOD] X3TC Boron Lusca M7 - V1.5

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Sir Squallus
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Post by Sir Squallus » Thu, 29. Jan 09, 14:25

@ Axeface
Of course!
Whats an translation whitout changing the T Files? :lol:
I changet all text files into German

PS Genius work again

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Axeface
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Post by Axeface » Thu, 29. Jan 09, 21:02

Thanks all!

@novacatt young-fella-me-lad...
The turret does indeed stick through the hull, however it is designed like that. The game does not have many variations of turrets, and in fact the stock ego ships all have turrets sticking through the hull. It's to cover up the fact that the base does not align with hull when you have a turret that points perpendicular to the ship (Go in-game and look at the Ray, and you'll see how bad it is :P )

I thought about making a custom turret, but that would mean me including many other modified files, making sure something will conflict.
Great to here ya making some ships! I'll help if I am able hehe.

@Marodeur...
Hehe ok :) Yeh plugin manager will be nice, but it doesnt really matter. It's really easy to put them in and take them out.

@Sir Squallus...
Cool! Was my Paranid message hard to translate? Lol. Thanks!

Marodeur
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Post by Marodeur » Thu, 29. Jan 09, 21:20

Yeah it would be easy... but i already use the hangarmod which has an altered tships. ;)

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Sir Squallus
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Post by Sir Squallus » Thu, 29. Jan 09, 22:38

@ axeface
No not hard, some parts are Horrible, i think my english in´t bad, but in some of the T files are used words from the game whith are other in the german version

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Sat, 31. Jan 09, 19:00

Axeface wrote:The turret does indeed stick through the hull, however it is designed like that. The game does not have many variations of turrets, and in fact the stock ego ships all have turrets sticking through the hull. It's to cover up the fact that the base does not align with hull when you have a turret that points perpendicular to the ship (Go in-game and look at the Ray, and you'll see how bad it is :P )
Side turrets don't work well with boron ships unless you create a few "flat" spots on the sides, just to place turrets there.
A few bulbs or a small rim might even enhance the generally organic look.

Up/down turrets (that work) are horrible to place on nearly any ship.
Teladi/ATF ships sometimes work out because they have some vertical surfaces.

If you want perfection, I'd suggest dropping the idea of up/down turrets on a boron ship and creating some "proper spots" for left/right turrets instead.

BTW: Is the laser recharge of 6300 a typo? Most M2 only have 2/3 of that.
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Axeface
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Post by Axeface » Sat, 31. Jan 09, 21:40

Ello.
The 6300 is reactor in Tships. Isn't that linked only to shield recharge? The laser recharge of this ship is around 1400 I think. Had a quick look at Tships and found the titan has 14500 reactor though, Am I missing something? hehe, I dont really know what the stats do, just played with it until it worked well in-game.

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Post by Gazz » Sat, 31. Jan 09, 22:04

Ah, I see. "Reactor" is pretty ambigous since it doesn't say if you mean lasers or shields.

6300 is still high end for an M7 but it's your ship.
As for shields, a single 1 GJ shield recharges with a top speed of 1800/s so 6300 can recharge 3.5 GJ at top speed.
Since 2GJ shields only do 1700 tops, the Titan's generator is good for 8x 2 GJ shields.

That's why the shield recharge rate of ships is often meaningless - when it's way higher than what the shields could actually use up.

A laser generator of 1400 is more than sufficient since your stats don't include any cockpit guns.
It's an M7M I suppose?

Seriously consider changing the bottom turret, though. Top/bottom turrets are practically impossible to place "right" on a boron hull.
Maybe something creative instead like 2 turret sections level but at 135° and 225°.
There is no law dictating that a turret must face straight left or rear.
Last edited by Gazz on Sat, 31. Jan 09, 22:46, edited 2 times in total.
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Hieronymos
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Post by Hieronymos » Sat, 31. Jan 09, 22:18

Both really good looking ships Axeface. Mastering the turret thing though..really needed for Lusca to have at least 2-3 light turrets for missle defence.

Keep it comin' dude!
Image

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Axeface
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Post by Axeface » Sat, 31. Jan 09, 22:49

Cheers both.

Ah I see Gazz, cool. Well when looking at the reactor I judged it by the aggy. I gave it a slightly higher reactor (Aggy has 6100) with one shield less and made it a low slower, kinda wanted it to be a slow tough ship. As for guns, no cockpit guns? It's got 12 :)
Oh and as for turrets, I experimented with limiting the turrets fire arc by turning the cockpit camera, it worked and the gun was sitting facing rear (Looks right and wasnt sticking through the hull) and couldnt fire up through the ship, however when the turret was idle it rotated very strangely. I'll work on that at some point and maybe put 2 bottom turrets, one facing rear and the other facing forward. Hows that sound?
Left/right turrets are an option too as you said, but doesnt that mean the ship will have a huge blind spot?

Hieronymos, the ship already has 2 turrets, 4 guns rear and 2 below, v 1.3 :)


EDIT: No not an M7M, normal M7 with lots of forward guns :)
Basically it's a new version of the thresher, even more tuned to get lots of big guns on a large target at once, and not twice the size of a destroyer.

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Sat, 31. Jan 09, 23:17

Axeface wrote:Oh and as for turrets, I experimented with limiting the turrets fire arc by turning the cockpit camera, it worked and the gun was sitting facing rear (Looks right and wasnt sticking through the hull) and couldnt fire up through the ship, however when the turret was idle it rotated very strangely.
Don't ever do that. It does not work. All you achieve is a bugged turret.
Turrets and camera must have the exact same rotational alignment.
Double check that in the scene file.
Such is the law.
I have spoken!

I'll work on that at some point and maybe put 2 bottom turrets, one facing rear and the other facing forward. Hows that sound?
Left/right turrets are an option too as you said, but doesnt that mean the ship will have a huge blind spot?
You're marketing it as an M1 killer. Why does it have to be a perfect do-it-all ship?
A ship that does one thing extremely well but suffers in other areas is far more interesting.
Maybe give it a 2200 sized laser generator (better than any M7) but no more than one 2 laser rear turret and a turning speed of maybe 1.8 tops so it won't be doing any bootlegger reverses.

Or how about something different? A top speed of 125 but a turning speed of 1.5. The high speed would further augment the true strength of the ship, making perfect sense for the design.
Alas this technological marvel could only be achieved by saving on maneuvering thrusters...

Of course it would be vulnerable. It might need protection, maybe a fighter or two, maybe a few dozen missiles.
But anything that gets in front of that ship is toast.

That would actually be a new kind of M7, not just a Thresher+.
I realise that it's your baby and you want it to be perfect in every way but it's very easy to create a super ship that's so good it's no longer any fun to fly.
Intentionally including weaknesses in the design force the player to think and use tactics. =)
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Axeface
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Post by Axeface » Sun, 1. Feb 09, 00:04

I totally agree Gazz ^^ V1 had NO turrets and 14 main guns, I marketed it as 'It will kill anything you point it at, but protect it' ship. But people wanted turrets so i gave turrets!

Your making me want to revert it now :) I like your idea about about making it a bit faster, but when I first came up with the model it just cried out 'slow and tough', at least to me. I'll work on it more :)

As it is now it's not a supership though incase you think that, testing in game has shown that against m7's its fairly powerful, about %70 of the time it wins against one, and M2's it is a threat, but not a definate kill. (AI hands obviously).

I will balance it more. Right now i'm thinking, 2 rear turrets, one up one down. To cover you from missiles from behind, and back to 14 main guns.

EDIT: About the turret trick. It seemed to work as far as the AI shooting the turrets, what bugs do you mean so I know?

EDIT 2 :) :- Missread your suggestion. I'll see what coverage I can get from a single rear turret, if it's bad i'll maybe add a second rear turret on the bottom of the ship and make it an m3 turret or something, very low grade weapons.

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Axeface
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Post by Axeface » Sun, 1. Feb 09, 02:28

Version 1.5.

Main guns increased to 14.
Turrets reduced to single rear, 2 guns.

Speed increased to 95 m/s.
Laser Recharge increased to 2200.


Cheers gazz, ship works a charm now and fits a specific role :)

DOWNLOAD:- KEEP BACKUPS OF YOUR SAVES.
If you already have the ship you will need to buy/spawn a new one for changes to take effect.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/h42z51mom ... 5FINAL.rar

Filefactory mirror removed because that site sucks.

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Sun, 1. Feb 09, 02:33

Axeface wrote:I totally agree Gazz ^^ V1 had NO turrets and 14 main guns, I marketed it as 'It will kill anything you point it at, but protect it' ship. But people wanted turrets so i gave turrets!
Ah, people. They always wish for what they're used to.

The M7 must be the ultimate weapon of destruction, able to rain destruction upon thy enemy while fending off missiles and fighters left and right.
I say... why?

Why does every ship have to be a swiss army knife? Sledge hammers are very useful tools as well. Maybe they aren't quite as versatile but sometimes...
Your making me want to revert it now :) I like your idea about about making it a bit faster, but when I first came up with the model it just cried out 'slow and tough', at least to me. I'll work on it more :)
There is no law about fast ships having to be agile and slow ships clumsy.
This connection exists only in people's heads.

Higher speed will increase both accuracy and range of the ship's massive main gun.
The one thing this is all about so the ship designers might see that as a priority.
Increasing top speed even at the cost of maneuverability therefore seems like a sensible tradeoff.
It absolutely won't be a super fighter because noone will be able to aim that thing at anything small and nimble. =P
So what? There are tons of ships for an anti-fighter role already.

BTW: those 1.8 I suggested are not a random number. M2 are roughly at 0.8 and M7 at 3.6 so the middle ground is at 2.2.
At 2.4 the Shrike is borderline useful against the heavier fighters so that's still a wee bit... agile.

EDIT: About the turret trick. It seemed to work as far as the AI shooting the turrets, what bugs do you mean so I know?

EDIT 2 :) :- Missread your suggestion. I'll see what coverage I can get from a single rear turret, if it's bad i'll maybe add a second rear turret on the bottom of the ship and make it an m3 turret or something, very low grade weapons.
The bug is that your turrets will occasionally fall silent for no apparent reason while they are "firing" at a piece of sky they can not physically fire at.
There is no trick and you will not get it to work.


Fields of fire and coverage, however, can be anything you damn please.

With one double turret rear/left and one double turret rear/right (45° backwards each) you'd have your rear cov... I mean your ship's rear covered nicely.
90° of the immediate rear area would be overlap covered by 4 lasers.
If the ship was indeed above average speed then most fighters (and missiles) would end up in the rear arc.

This arrangement could still cover 75% of the ship against missiles but intentionally leave 25% of forward arc vulnerable.
(Personally I'd widen this gap to like 40 % - make it mean something)

Then you have to make a decision. Do you use the main guns to intercept the incoming missile? Do you abort the attack run and heave this big momma in a turn so the turrets could track it? Do you just let your shields soak it up?
Ah, those were the Broadsword bombing runs of Wing Commander. Shields forward! Stay on target! Lock that torpedo into the shield phase! (Pray!)
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Axeface
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Post by Axeface » Sun, 1. Feb 09, 02:42

Ah, those were the Broadsword bombing runs of Wing Commander. Shields forward! Stay on target! Lock that torpedo! (Pray!)
Ah good game! And X-Wing alliance, I loved the shield management part, was so much fun.

All very valid points! I have done most of your suggestions in the new version, except the 125 speed (Might do that too tho)... the reason is simple, I'm running Cmod4.2, and as capital fights last longer the AI ALWAYS rams if its a ship that can't turn very fast. I think in vanilla this ship will probably destroy anything before it needs to turn :)

I changed the turning to 1.8 too btw :)

Good points about the turrets. The current rear turret cover a lot of the rear of the ship. I've placed it right on the edge of the cowling above the engine so it can aim down, up and left and right, covering almost the entire hemisphere.
Like the idea of rear left and rear right turrets, i'll have to try to wrap my head around the arcs and do some testing.

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Sun, 1. Feb 09, 03:07

Axeface wrote:I'm running Cmod4.2, and as capital fights last longer the AI ALWAYS rams if its a ship that can't turn very fast. I think in vanilla this ship will probably destroy anything before it needs to turn :)
The laser energy should be dry in 20 sec. About 14 if you overcharge.
That means 13 GJ of shield damage. (PPC)

This is not the kind of ship that goes "around" or brakes for small furry animals.
Remember Spaceballs? WE BRAKE FOR NOBODY

It's your project but I'd up the speed. Yeah, it may not be uhh... safe. Pity. =P
But the difference between 90 and 125 m/s are 10 % accuracy and 700m of PPC range.
You could texture a warning sign to the bow instead of the rear.
KEEP SAFE DISTANCE AT ALL TIMES
The current rear turret cover a lot of the rear of the ship. I've placed it right on the edge of the cowling above the engine so it can aim down, up and left and right, covering almost the entire hemisphere.
Like the idea of rear left and rear right turrets, i'll have to try to wrap my head around the arcs and do some testing.
A single rear turret is really a bit thin. (even if I suggested it =)
The "classic" turret arcs of straight rear/up/left are just so boring and confining.
The question should never be which of the 6 standard arcs you pick but which exact orientation best suits your vision for the ship.
Boron ships aren't made for right angles anyway. It never fits.

Back in Reunion I modified the P in my game to have 3 turrets but they were aligned with the alien shape of the ship, giving them a very unique and interesting overlap.
Those ships became an interesting fight when they were practice targets before. I liked that. =)

The 1.4 "Turret Fix" includes some unannounced extras too, like turning the Shrike from a useless POS into a capable brawler with a unique (although not elegant =) fighting style. The Tiger also has a decisive firepower advantage over the Panther so the choice between those 2 is no longer automatically a given.
Small details like that can make or break ships without ever touching TShips and bluntly adding more lasers or the likes.



Oh, one more thing although it's more a matter of styling, not a technical issue.

Ideally, the cockpit guns should be arranged in a way that corresponds to the laser display in the cockpit.
Like the top 2 lasers are in the center and as you go down the lines the laser positions go outward from there.

Maybe 4 should be relatively close together at the center so the player has the option of creating a tight laser group for smaller targets.
The rest can go wide since the intended targets would be... big.
Besides, filling the sky with bullets makes for a prettier picture. =)
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