[MOD] ATF Agent gamestart

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KillingMonkey
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Post by KillingMonkey » Mon, 12. Jan 09, 20:19

Hmmm... Don't recommend going against Xenon for awhile...
(From a different save) My Tyr (which I capped and nurtured like one of my own) just got bashed by a K.... Don't know how... Had all my weapons at it... Spare the right and back turrets which couldn't reach it... Had most of my PSPs and M/AMs at it... But it just opened it's port side with... I couldn't know what... and bam! It was all over in like 5-6 seconds... Didn't even have time to teleport to my Tokyo (which wouldn't have survived much longer)... Lol... But anyways... This is my problems out loud... Strange thing was- I wasn't even doing a mission and the sector was Argon, not to mention a Core one... And we all know what kinds of ships the Argon keep in their Cores... None came to help... Anyways...
Also.... Found this... Not really hard to find and you probably have it already... Still, I'll be a sport and post a link... Might just help you fix those pesky glitches... http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=211689 ...
Cheers...
To each, his own.

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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Tue, 13. Jan 09, 01:10

Seathal, if you email me a copy, I'll put it on my download site as an alternative.

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Seathal
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Post by Seathal » Wed, 14. Jan 09, 11:27

Done, hope it helps with the ReadText files, finding the same issues apparently.

KillingMonkey
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Post by KillingMonkey » Sat, 17. Jan 09, 14:34

So... Seathal, did you manage to fix them pesky bugs? I've got a ton of bug spray, if you want it... :wink:
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Seathal
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Post by Seathal » Sat, 17. Jan 09, 18:03

Nah, not yet! I've been wondering why the hell I get them. I didn't even touch the other text files, just the gamestart ones, and all those seem to work fine... uhm..

I'm ideating a solution for the ATF ship issue though, I need to polish it a bit more.

KillingMonkey
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Post by KillingMonkey » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 10:54

By 'ATF ship issue' you mean how to integrate the possibility of buying ATF ships, right?
Here's a light bulb (20W mind you)... You could set them as a plot reward... Like after a few missions you get a Mjollnir and then a Thor etc... This could be made so that rewards synchronize with difficulty of missions... Like you'd get larger and tougher ships as the plot progresses and gets harder to complete with smaller and weaker craft... Mind you, you should think of balancing this... And don't give the larger ships (M1/2s), only until frigates would be the optimal...
If the player wants to get capitals- he would have to struggle for them... Or make a mission in which a Tyr is hijacked by a very lucky band of pirates (or an enemy race, either way works) and you've got to re-capture it... That would bring marines into the plot, which, I think, hasn't really been implemented in the 'real' ones (not that I've completed any yet, but I am pretty far...)....
Also you could re-model the ATF Shipyard script into a AFT-ship-selling-Torus script and merge it with the mod...
Also I heard that using the MD (Mission Director) you could make your own missions which could make a plot...
Cheers...
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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 11:04

There are 3 marine boarding missions in the plots. None of them work properly. Until the bugs in the boarding code are fixed, I dont recommend that for any new missions.

There is already a script out to put the ATF ships in a shipyard. Just integrate it with permission of the author.

KillingMonkey
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Post by KillingMonkey » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 11:12

Hmmm... Guess I haven't reached that part yet... And just what kind of bugs are there in the marine boarding?
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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 11:16

They have to be done using the piracy boarding command, and since 1.4, all that does is spend hours going round and round the target ship, never getting into a boarding position, or it sits astern of the target and stays there. Either way, it does no boarding up to the point where the ship gets slagged.

The only viable ways of boarding are Cycrows boarding script and pods, but the missions dont allow you to use pods it seems. SO anyone who refuses to use scripts is sh*t out of luck as far as boarding is concerned.

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Post by amtct » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 12:38

The only viable ways of boarding are Cycrows boarding script and pods, but the missions dont allow you to use pods it seems. SO anyone who refuses to use scripts is sh*t out of luck as far as boarding is concerned.

I don't managed even one boarding.I see others who have 50-60 boarding operations succesfull but for me boarding is like cloacking device(only in manual).

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Post by spacehunt » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 13:34

apricotslice wrote:They have to be done using the piracy boarding command, and since 1.4, all that does is spend hours going round and round the target ship, never getting into a boarding position, or it sits astern of the target and stays there. Either way, it does no boarding up to the point where the ship gets slagged.

The only viable ways of boarding are Cycrows boarding script and pods, but the missions dont allow you to use pods it seems. SO anyone who refuses to use scripts is sh*t out of luck as far as boarding is concerned.
Damn lol :( I was hoping on finishing the plot first then starting again with scripts :P

KillingMonkey
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Post by KillingMonkey » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 17:10

Ok.... Then if not boarding... Maybe the reward alternative? It really doesn't sound that hard to make missions or even tweak certain missions to reward you a certain craft... Still, better make them a one shot mission thing... Combine some defend or petrol missions into a series that's plot-like and as a reward set a ship that would be an absolute necessity for the next plot-like series of missions... Do this a couple of times with the difficulty level constantly going up and you have yourself a solution... Somewhat temporary, mind you... But still... A solution nonetheless...
To each, his own.

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Seathal
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Post by Seathal » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 18:02

I had thought of opening the M5, M4, M3, M3+ and both M6 once you get access to the Torus. To get access to the two M7s, the Odin and the Tyr you'd have a guy at the TOrus that gives you access to different plots (like the Corporations) once you've reached "X" conditions. A plot for giving you access to each capital ship (Not the ship itself, just the abailability to buy it).

ALternatively, you could get a single copy of the ship and you have to retroengineer it if you want more, but I think that could be too forced.

Of course the M7 plots will be easier (not easy) than the M2 and the M1 ones. Been thinking on, for example, only allow you access to the Odin plot once you've reached X-Treme level on both Trade and Combat, completed all corporation plots and reached a number of Xenon kills... and then of course you'd have to complete the plot itself.

Missions would be a mixture, basiclly combat and recoinassance ones with maybe a commercial one (bring supplies) here and there.

What do you think of it?

KillingMonkey
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Post by KillingMonkey » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 18:54

Hmmmm.... A good idea... But the requirements for the Odin do look a bit harsh... You might want to lower the bridge a bit.... Maybe just reach a certain level of Combat, not X-Treme, but somewhat lower, the Xenon kills are obligatory... And I wouldn't suggest waiting to complete the plot to give the player the Odin... It's a bit stupid and somewhat demoralizing... The corporation plots are also a bit irrelevant here... All this 'max out the game and you get this ship' thing tends to leave the impression that the Odin is like a ultra-super-duper-Death Star-type ship, which it is not... And this would alienate your average player from the game... The Valhalla, on the other hand is a different matter... You could make it an end reward for completing a special plot (the ATF Agent plot would be a good plot)... The ATF are soooo honored and proud of your accomplishments that they give you their flagship as a reward for your services... Or just make you their Commanding Officer...
And since you're an ATF Agent... Missions should consist of more recon and 'trade' (interference with other races) with just a spec of fighting along the lines...
To each, his own.

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Seathal
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Post by Seathal » Sun, 18. Jan 09, 23:54

Hmmm don't think the ATF would give out the Valhalla to anyone, nro put you in command of, literally, all the Solar System forces :P But maybe access to the Woden... hmm well it's not an impressive ship but it has hangar bay, a lot of turrets, a LOT of SSCs to defend it, 90 m/s... and unless the Valhalla it fits in the gates (I think). And it's somewhat a misterious and "experimental" ship. Okay it looks like a HUGE brick but hey it's ATF, it fits a lot of fighters and its unique; could be a fancy mobile HQ.

Anyways, I also plan on tweaking several things; Include Terran stations to the rest of shipyards (The Moon, Saturn and Mars), including Orbital Defence Station and Orbital Patrol Base (Maybe even Military Base?). Also tweak the Tyr's cargo bay (It's totally illogic that ATF M7's have 9500 cargobay and the Tyr just 8000, not enough to fit in its weapons). And also maybe add the Atmoshperic Lifter as some sort of "TL+".

As for the "plots"... well the ATF wants you to have good relationships with the commonwealth so they can use your contacts to reach their goals, and the most manipulable big powers in "enemy territory" are the corporations, thirsty of profits and good deals with the most advanced race out there. If I was a big guy of the ATF I'd try to manipulate the other races via their companies instead of their civilian, military or politic forces.

In the begining missions should be more recon (explore XX sectors of the Commonwealth) and "trade" (maybe deliver specimens (wares, weapons, ships, even prisioners) to ATF installations for further study? Saturn Research Station anyone?) and the evolve into escort, defence and Xenon sector raid missions.

What do you all think?

KillingMonkey
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Post by KillingMonkey » Mon, 19. Jan 09, 20:05

It's ok... But the Woden is a bit overrated, for me at least... Boasting SSCs isn't that outstanding... Even with a combo of PSPs... I'd look for a ship more or less balanced between rate or fire of weapons and power of weapons to be a personal 'flagship' (mobile HQ)... The optimal, in my opinion, would be an Odysseus, escorted by one or two Deimosi (plural of Deimos), for a few fighters ... But its' Paranid, so it's out of the count... Seeing that the Woden is basically an Odin with more shielding and greater hull integrity but essentially the same in aspect of weapons and available combinations... I'd opt, if i was to equip one, for a balance of SSCs, some PSPs and M/AMLs... But seeing how that didn't really work with my Tyr since it got hammed (made into ham, I mean) in roughly eight to nine seconds... And that's considering that the Tyr actually has more shielding and hull integrity than the Odin and Woden... The Woden is a carrier, I'll give it that, but not a better one than the Odin, the all-mighty Norse God might have more hangar space but it lacks the 'superior' turret power of the Woden... But for a carrier that isn't that much of an importance... For me the carrier should be the ship that carries craft and deploys them to fight, instead of it itself doing all the combat... With the possibility of landing a few side-shots to an enemy capital... The condition an Odin can surely coup with...
But packing a capital, any capital, with only the slow firing Terran super weapons ( the PSP in particular) isn't really a good idea... Ok... They might do like the most damage ( x3tc.ru says 95 ***) but they are soooo slow that it's more or less a one-shot deal... You fire two, three, four shots at the max and you get served scrap for dinner... And they, thanks to their slowness, are essentially useless against fighters or even the M6 and upper classes of ships... Which is bad when you get swarmed by small pesky bug-like things... And I don't mean the spaceflies... They are squishable... Try hitting an M5 with a PSP... Total waste of time...
So, for weapons I'd go for a mixture of PSPs and SSCs on the front and sides and a combo of M/AMs and SSCs on the upper and lower turret, also some M/AMs in the back... Unfortunately, that won't work since the PSPs, which are my main anti-capital weapons, are slow as retarded snails and I'll probably end up dead in the blink on an eye..
Ok... I, and probably you, got a bit lost in my ranting on the let-downs and minuses of having an ATF (or Terran for that matter) capital as a flagship... I can go on at it for hours, but I'm lazy and mostly tired...

All I'm saying is that you could give the player something actually suitable for a mobile base... Something that would work in most cases and in others will have a backup plan...
The Tyr would be a good solution, but since the plot is somewhat about intervening and gathering information about other races, why not make it so it would have more weapons available... Like some of the flaks on the vertical (upper/lower) turrets and a Gauss Cannon in the front turret... And some Bomb Launchers (maybe both incendiary and frag) for the sides... And PPCs to make it better... And just for the usefulness of it, why not add a 6-8-10 fighter bay... Filling the role of a specialized mobile field base completely...
This is how it could be done (in the game)...
Sometime during the separate plot (hopefully we'll see one soon, shout if you need help with the story) you are asked to deliver certain weapons to the Saturn Research Station... After you bring them you continue with the plot and after some time you're asked to return to the station... There you find a special one off Tyr especially for you... Of course no gift from the ATF has ever come without a catch (like the Mafia... Strange...).. You are to use the new ship in a few extra hard missions that make you do almost suicide raids on Xenon sectors with the aid of some other ships, ofc ... After that you are 'strangely' left with the ship at your disposal... Then you get a message from 'your boss' that you can keep the ship, since it was a prototype and newer, better, ships are being made... That's one of the possible scenarios for getting the 'improved Tyr'...

Ok... One question- Do you get anything of what I'm saying? Cause I sure as hell have trouble understanding me...
To each, his own.

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Seathal
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Post by Seathal » Mon, 19. Jan 09, 21:52

Hmmm I think the only flaw of the Woden is the relatively small hangar bay (and maybe the appearance, that's more personal). It haves better shielding and better weaponry than the Odin, just smaller capacity (44 versus 30, not so dramatic either) and it's faster too. I don't know, I wouldn't give away the design of the Valhalla anyways, it's an unique and exclusive ship; the Wooden otherwise would be a good "final prize", given the fact it's always fancy to have a ship noone else in the Universe haves (well, maybe some lucky test pilots and their crews, but they don't get to have real fun with it), and after all is a good ship (despite smaller hangar bay or looks).

And if you don't like it you can always sell it! It's the most expensive M1...

I said I'd give the reward to _buy_ the ships, not the ship themselves. It's enough a bonus to let you buy a ship you wouldn't be able to buy otherwise. Thinking of using the "inactive" ATF ranks to set ATF capital ships to one of each: Aegir to rank 8, Skirnir to 9, Tyr to 10 and Odin to 11. And so it would be easier to handle the missions, you'd just have to give away the correct ammount of reputation and you'd get automatic access to those ships at the Torus (I'd have to change the Torus propierty though). If I don't figure anything better out it's what I'll do.

As for the Woden I think I can make a "Bonus" mission. Thinking of the ATF guys contacting you, telling you they lost contact with one of their top-secret prototype capital ships that was in a test run in the outter Solar System (aka, the Unknown sectors on the east). That they need your help to go along with a taskforce group of the ATF/USC (by that time you'll probably already have a frigatte, destroyer or something similar.

When you arrive at the first Unknown Sector you get ambushed by the Xenon, a big task force, you defeat them and you continue down, on the second and thrid sector you find Xenon frigattes, destroyers and carriers you have to destroy to make your way to the lastest unknown sector, where you find the Woden drifting in space, with its shields completelly destroyed and with the hull ehavily damaged, no weapons; a huge sitting duck.

You have to set a defensive perimeter and prepare for the last Xenon attack (they obviously want either to capture or destroy the prototype) as the USC/ATF guys retake control of the ship and begin the repairing "in-situ" of the shields and the jumpdrive. You have to restist 20 minutes or so until they're able to make it jump to a safe sector and the Xenon retreat /reinforments arrive to finish them off. Later on, after the battle you get given the Woden since the former captainw as too incompetent or was killed and the best person they thought of to try its capabilities is you.

How does it sound? It could also be, as you say, and enhanced version of the Tyr or the Odin. But not so they can mount Commonwealth weaponry, would be too... weird and forced I think, alternatives could be maybe 10m/s more of speed, 2GJ more of shields, huger cargobay, 12 turrets on the frontal instead of 8... you know these kind of things.

KillingMonkey
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Post by KillingMonkey » Mon, 19. Jan 09, 22:09

Hmmm... Good.... Yessss..... Goood.... I aproveeee..... Okkkkk.... Too much banana juice late at night causes these kinds of things...
The mission really sounds good, like something that really can happen, and probably will when testing an experimental ship in 'rogue' territory... Talking about ATF master planing...
Anywhoo... I still like the idea of an experimental Tyr that can mount the typical (as in non-Terran) weapons... Or at least some of them... I don't know... Maybe I like the idea of 12 moderately fast firing Gauss Cannons bombarding a Xenon K... Revenge anyone? :D Seriously... Homeland enemies, universe destroyers aside... Them dang Xenon have made it real personal when they destroyed my Tyr... No one has the authority to do this!! Not even me! Especially considering the fact that I capped it via no scripts, mods or alterations... Which, considering the 'base' boarding system, is a real achievement...
But still... Good plan...
To each, his own.

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Seathal
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Post by Seathal » Mon, 19. Jan 09, 22:12

KillingMonkey wrote:Hmmm... Good.... Yessss..... Goood.... I aproveeee..... Okkkkk.... Too much banana juice late at night causes these kinds of things...
The mission really sounds good, like something that really can happen, and probably will when testing an experimental ship in 'rogue' territory... Talking about ATF master planing...
Anywhoo... I still like the idea of an experimental Tyr that can mount the typical (as in non-Terran) weapons... Or at least some of them... I don't know... Maybe I like the idea of 12 moderately fast firing Gauss Cannons bombarding a Xenon K... Revenge anyone? :D Seriously... Homeland enemies, universe destroyers aside... Them dang Xenon have made it real personal when they destroyed my Tyr... No one has the authority to do this!! Not even me! Especially considering the fact that I capped it via no scripts, mods or alterations... Which, considering the 'base' boarding system, is a real achievement...
But still... Good plan...
THink about it, Tyr is badass enough as it is. If you let it have Commonwealth weapons... well Boreas would still be "fair" compared to this kinda ship. The only thing the Tyr's lacking is 12.000 cargobay like it should have, to be able to mount decent weaponry. The lakc of power of the PSP is compensated by having 36! of them. Who needs more?

It's silly that the ATF corvettes can have 9500 cargobay and the hugest, most feared of all the M2 can just carry 8000... Somehting I plan on fixing.

KillingMonkey
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Post by KillingMonkey » Mon, 19. Jan 09, 22:52

Enough with the cargo bay... It isn't enough but that's changeable... And, as I said before... Just try packing a Tyr with 36 PSPs and go against a K, like I have... Not a good idea... Ok... I admit, it's powerful... Way powerful... But power itself isn't enough... You need speed with which to bring that power to bare... And considering that you won't shoot at that K from all sides, maximum two, with possible up and down turrets, you pack one or two shots at it from each turret gun and its' over.... Ok, you might win, but that's if it's a stand off... A show down.... Immobile... How about moving in close to that K while in combat? Only the front, with the possibility of a side turret catching a possible glimpse of a hit, would be active... That's no more than 15-20 turrets.... The K had its whole side at me plus the front, plus the upper turret... And I had just my measly 8 slow front guns... Doing little more than hitting shields... That's a personal experience, but a mighty convincing at that... It might have been my mistake... Who knows... I'm not making any excuses and certainly not crying back to my mommy... Now considering the other forces that are bound to be escorting a K.... Odds are slowly falling, my friend...
Look, I'm not rushing you or pushing you to making anything the way 'I want it'... Hell it is your mod after all and it's you who decides what to implement in it... Hell... I don't even use ATF ships no more... Well, I do plan of trying to cap another Tyr, buuuttt.... Distant future... And with an Odysseus I don't really think I need one...
Look, just do what you want on this part (and the mod as a whole)... I'm behind you whatever you do... My Monkey Ninjas are also... Which most of the time isn't a good thing but in your case, I'll make an exception...
To each, his own.

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