CPU/GPU Large Empire Question

[Maxila]

While I've restarted and played a few new games my current game is about 1000 hrs. Due to the size of my empire and number of ships the game performance is playable but not great in busy sectors and in three sectors I have mega complexes the frame rate is probably single digits. My current hardware is a bit old, Intel 6700k, 32GB RAM, 1TB SATA SSD, GTX 1080. I'm building a new system next week. I'd like to ask the players who have modern hardware and a huge empire, will I see any significant performance jump going to:

Intel 13900K
64GB DDR5 RAM (6200)
4TB M.2 2280 SSD
RTX 4090

One would assume a huge performance increase however, I've gamed long enough to know it not always as simple as it my appear. For example I'm pretty sure my main bottleneck is CPU and even if the 13900K can run the game twice as fast, in the 3 sectors I get 7 FP I may only improve to 14fps? If any of you have game experience with this I'd love to hear about it. Thank you.

[Imperial Good]

Performance should be significantly better. It might not be perfect but it should be a lot better, even in very complex situations. Due to the IPC gains, more cache, e.t.c. there might be more than 100% gains in some situations.

That said most of the performance would be obtainable with something like a Intel i7 13700K and a RTX 3060 (or other such modern GPU) at a fraction of the price. I would only go with such high end components if you intend to use the computer for other applications or workloads that take advantage of such high end hardware. Especially with GPUs, you would need to pair the RTX 4090 with a high end display (4k, high refresh rate) to really get value from it.

[alt3rn1ty]

Also note that awesome CPU supports Up to DDR5 5600 MT/s (not 6200), so dont get the wrong sticks.
https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/ ... tions.html

[Imperial Good]

Also note that awesome CPU supports Up to DDR5 5600 MT/s (not 6200), so dont get the wrong sticks.

Depends on motherboard. From what I have read the memory controllers in high end Intel 13th generation support up to 7000 MT/s with 1 DIMM per channel pretty reliably. 6200 should not be a problem if the motherboard is certified for it.

This might void Intel's warrantee on your processor though due to operating the CPU out of spec.

[Maxila]

Performance should be significantly better. It might not be perfect but it should be a lot better, even in very complex situations. Due to the IPC gains, more cache, e.t.c. there might be more than 100% gains in some situations.

That said most of the performance would be obtainable with something like a Intel i7 13700K and a RTX 3060 (or other such modern GPU) at a fraction of the price. I would only go with such high end components if you intend to use the computer for other applications or workloads that take advantage of such high end hardware. Especially with GPUs, you would need to pair the RTX 4090 with a high end display (4k, high refresh rate) to really get value from it.

Thank you for the info and advice, I already bought the parts and am just waiting on delivery. I knew I'd get better performance but it might not be as much as I hope. I'm still shopping for a monitor to pair with the 4090 but haven't decided yet, so far I'm considering a Samsung 49" G9 or the Alienware 34 Inch Curved monitor, but I'm still sorting that decision out. For now that card will running two 1920 x 1080 monitors which I know is complete waste for that card. I just want to make sure I get a monitor I'm really happy with so I'm taking my time to looking at specs and reviews etc.

[Maxila]

Also note that awesome CPU supports Up to DDR5 5600 MT/s (not 6200), so dont get the wrong sticks.
https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/ ... tions.html

The MB is a ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-H and says it supports DDR5 up to 7800. Tom's hardware did a recent review of that CPU using DDR5 6800 memory but 6200 sticks were the only ones I could find available on the MB's certified memory list, so I played it safe and bought those. They also had a much lower CAS latency than a lot of other sticks at that speed and I know that makes a difference too.

[alt3rn1ty]

Noted good tips, I'm thinking about getting a desktop (also for X4) and its been about 20 years since I built my last one.

[shovelmonkey]

Also note that awesome CPU supports Up to DDR5 5600 MT/s (not 6200), so dont get the wrong sticks.
https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/ ... tions.html

Wrong. I'm running a 13900k with 2 x32 gb GSkill Trident Z 6400 MT/s kit. Absolutely depends on the motherboard which is an Asus Prime Z-790 Wifi. The board was much more finicky about having 4 x 16gb kit of 6000 MT/s ram that I had to return because it wouldn't post with XMP enabled. Make sure you check supported ram configuration FOR the mobo you get. The 2 x 32gb gskill kit was in the listed supported configurations and works fine at rated speeds.

Also, to the op, I have pretty much what you describe. 4090 as well. While it will kick the crap out of what you currently have, as noted by others it is only a MARGINAL improvement from much cheaper builds such as my previous build which was a ryzen 5800x3D / RTX 3090, which while still pretty damn high end can be put together much cheaper.

[Maxila]

Also, to the op, I have pretty much what you describe. 4090 as well. While it will kick the crap out of what you currently have, as noted by others it is only a MARGINAL improvement from much cheaper builds such as my previous build which was a ryzen 5800x3D / RTX 3090, which while still pretty damn high end can be put together much cheaper.

Thank you, that's what I was afraid of, only getting marginal improvement in my current large empire x4 game. I suspected even with vastly better hardware I might not see the kind of performance gains I'm hoping for. After I try it out next week if it's a lot better than I thought I'll report that back here.

I'd like to ask you a question, you may have noticed I said in the thread I haven't decided on a monitor to pair with the new build (4090) yet. If you're happy with your monitor, would you mind telling me what you're using?

[magitsu]

Honestly even though it's cpu intensive X4 isn't the game that benefited the most when I moved from Ryzen 2600 to 58003D, while keeping the same gpu (1070Ti).
It is slightly smoother but the setup is more noisy than before (Dark rock 4 cooler). It was very playable at the same 1440p with 2600 as it is with 5800X3D.

Paradox grand strategies and Terra Invicta benefited the most.

X4 performance varies a lot between sectors and the amount of battle or station modules. Map view lag is quite dependent on whether the show allied orders filter was on or off (off since noticing it).
Now 6.0 is almost like a blank slate. Most notable is the change in loading times.

42" seems to be quite good max size. Many people run LG C2 tv's as monitors and report that 48" felt too much. But those have different pixel densities too, so the effect of that perhaps also needs to be considered..

[shovelmonkey]

Also, to the op, I have pretty much what you describe. 4090 as well. While it will kick the crap out of what you currently have, as noted by others it is only a MARGINAL improvement from much cheaper builds such as my previous build which was a ryzen 5800x3D / RTX 3090, which while still pretty damn high end can be put together much cheaper.

I'd like to ask you a question, you may have noticed I said in the thread I haven't decided on a monitor to pair with the new build (4090) yet. If you're happy with your monitor, would you mind telling me what you're using?

I have a pretty non standard setup as far as displays. I'm using 3 4k TV's, the main attraction being a 65" 120hz native TCL Qled panel. This one, in particular.

Edit -- My weird setup. I play from my couch, so it works well enough.

[alt3rn1ty]

Also note that awesome CPU supports Up to DDR5 5600 MT/s (not 6200), so dont get the wrong sticks.
https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/ ... tions.html

Wrong. I'm running a 13900k with 2 x32 gb GSkill Trident Z 6400 MT/s kit. Absolutely depends on the motherboard which is an Asus Prime Z-790 Wifi. The board was much more finicky about having 4 x 16gb kit of 6000 MT/s ram that I had to return because it wouldn't post with XMP enabled. Make sure you check supported ram configuration FOR the mobo you get. The 2 x 32gb gskill kit was in the listed supported configurations and works fine at rated speeds.

Its probably working fine for you, but personally I'm going to follow Intel's expert recommendation .. and Imperial Goods experienced cautionary advice ..

This might void Intel's warrantee on your processor though due to operating the CPU out of spec.

I can only afford a new machine once a blue moon, so I would rather get it right first time and not carelessly blow a pile of money following someone elses fearless experiments

[shovelmonkey]

Also note that awesome CPU supports Up to DDR5 5600 MT/s (not 6200), so dont get the wrong sticks.
https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/ ... tions.html

Wrong. I'm running a 13900k with 2 x32 gb GSkill Trident Z 6400 MT/s kit. Absolutely depends on the motherboard which is an Asus Prime Z-790 Wifi. The board was much more finicky about having 4 x 16gb kit of 6000 MT/s ram that I had to return because it wouldn't post with XMP enabled. Make sure you check supported ram configuration FOR the mobo you get. The 2 x 32gb gskill kit was in the listed supported configurations and works fine at rated speeds.

Its probably working fine for you, but personally I'm going to follow Intel's expert recommendation .. and Imperial Goods experienced cautionary advice ..

This might void Intel's warrantee on your processor though due to operating the CPU out of spec.

I can only afford a new machine once a blue moon, so I would rather get it right first time and not carelessly blow a pile of money following someone elses fearless experiments

It's hardly an experiment. XMP and EXPO were created by Intel and AMD respectively. Motherboard partners are constantly increasing their list of compatible memory. Memory of any speed by reputable manufacturers is specifically designed to work well with Intel and AMD cpu's. Be pretty bad for business if Intel and AMD PARTNERS had to put big disclamiers on their boxes warning you that running their memory will void the warranty on your CPU.

There are many things you could do to void your warrant, delid it, run it without a cooler, submerge it in water...running ram approved EXPLICITELY by your motherboard manufacturer is not one of them.

Edit - This video explains why I'm not concerned about it all. Or most other people for that matter. Hard to find a more respected outlet than GN. At anyrate, please don't take any of my comments personally, they weren't intended that way. You are, of course, perfectly entitled to follow your own intuition when building your system. I won't derail this thread further...apologies mods.

[Imperial Good]

It's hardly an experiment. XMP and EXPO were created by Intel and AMD respectively. Motherboard partners are constantly increasing their list of compatible memory. Memory of any speed by reputable manufacturers is specifically designed to work well with Intel and AMD cpu's. Be pretty bad for business if Intel and AMD PARTNERS had to put big disclamiers on their boxes warning you that running their memory will void the warranty on your CPU.

There are big disclaimers on the Intel's and AMD's websites warning you that running memory above the specified speed will void your warrantee... XMP is even referred to as overclocking by Intel, although it only really counts as overclocking if you push past the CPU's supported specifications.

The high end kits of memory that are beyond the specification of the CPUs are not targeting ordinary users, they are intended for people who want to overclock and so do not care about the warrantee. OEMs that sell systems with memory above specification have their own warrantees. There is even a good chance you can RMA a CPU that you ran out of spec XMP on and the RMA will be honoured, although technically you are lying at that point (you did overclock it).

[Maxila]

I have a pretty non standard setup as far as displays. I'm using 3 4k TV's, the main attraction being a 65" 120hz native TCL Qled panel. This one, in particular.

Edit -- My weird setup. I play from my couch, so it works well enough.

Wow, that's definitely not what I had in mind but I can see how it might be pretty awesome too. thanks.

[Maxila]

It's hardly an experiment. XMP and EXPO were created by Intel and AMD respectively. Motherboard partners are constantly increasing their list of compatible memory. Memory of any speed by reputable manufacturers is specifically designed to work well with Intel and AMD cpu's. Be pretty bad for business if Intel and AMD PARTNERS had to put big disclamiers on their boxes warning you that running their memory will void the warranty on your CPU.

There are big disclaimers on the Intel's and AMD's websites warning you that running memory above the specified speed will void your warrantee... XMP is even referred to as overclocking by Intel, although it only really counts as overclocking if you push past the CPU's supported specifications.

The high end kits of memory that are beyond the specification of the CPUs are not targeting ordinary users, they are intended for people who want to overclock and so do not care about the warrantee. OEMs that sell systems with memory above specification have their own warrantees. There is even a good chance you can RMA a CPU that you ran out of spec XMP on and the RMA will be honoured, although technically you are lying at that point (you did overclock it).

Thanks for the thoughts. I've been building and overclocking for decades, I'm conservative with it because stability is paramount for me in a build. I'd prefer run at manufacture's specs and no overclock than have a system that might crash due to any overclocking. I'll stress test any enhanced settings thoroughly, including temperature's that run within spec but still too high for my taste as I go thought the process. A cool running system is a happy, longer life system.

[Eyeklops]

At one point in time Intel used to offer a Performance Tuning Protection Plan that covered CPU death's due to overclocking. Intel discontinued it with these words: As customers increasingly overclock with confidence, we are seeing lower demand for the Performance Tuning Protection Plan (PTPP). Does Intel's statement mean overclocking failures on modern CPU's are so low it's not worth buying their protection plan? I don't know, but that's my guess.

[DavidGW]

A few points from me:

My current computer is similar to the OP's old computer, but a little bit better; 8700K + 1080Ti.

One thing that the OP should be able to do with the new computer is run at much higher graphics settings without being GPU bound. I know I have to drop graphics quality many pegs to get a smooth frame rate even with new X4 starts. Running native on my 4K screen is basically impossible without ravaging the graphics quality.

On overclocking, I feel that as long as you're not doing stupid things, you'll be pretty safe. I overclock my 8700K a little bit, and did the same with my previous 4770K, no problems for me so far. The same should apply to RAM. There are so many thermal and power safeguards in modern CPUs that it would be really difficult to kill them. And if it did fail while you were running overclocked, how would Intel/AMD know? It's my understanding that overclock information is stored in the Bios on the motherboard, not the CPU. We can have arguments about whether this would be lying or not, but also consider that Intel/AMD sell you the CPU advertised as unlocked and overclock-able, and are happy to charge a premium for that ability. Again, the same logic applies to RAM.

Don't do crazy over-volts (or if you want to be super-duper safe don't change voltages up or down), and obviously don't use LN2.

Or, if you really can't afford to replace it if you are incredibly unlucky, don't run the risk. The performance improvements you'll get from overclocking CPU, RAM and/or GPU will be barely noticeable.

[magitsu]

Don't do crazy over-volts (or if you want to be super-duper safe don't change voltages up or down), and obviously don't use LN2.

Or, if you really can't afford to replace it if you are incredibly unlucky, don't run the risk. The performance improvements you'll get from overclocking CPU, RAM and/or GPU will be barely noticeable.

These days underclocking is perhaps even more common with CPU/GPU to manage temperatures/better boost clocks. Overclocking part is usually left to RAM.

[shovelmonkey]

It's hardly an experiment. XMP and EXPO were created by Intel and AMD respectively. Motherboard partners are constantly increasing their list of compatible memory. Memory of any speed by reputable manufacturers is specifically designed to work well with Intel and AMD cpu's. Be pretty bad for business if Intel and AMD PARTNERS had to put big disclamiers on their boxes warning you that running their memory will void the warranty on your CPU.

There are big disclaimers on the Intel's and AMD's websites warning you that running memory above the specified speed will void your warrantee... XMP is even referred to as overclocking by Intel, although it only really counts as overclocking if you push past the CPU's supported specifications.

The high end kits of memory that are beyond the specification of the CPUs are not targeting ordinary users, they are intended for people who want to overclock and so do not care about the warrantee. OEMs that sell systems with memory above specification have their own warrantees. There is even a good chance you can RMA a CPU that you ran out of spec XMP on and the RMA will be honoured, although technically you are lying at that point (you did overclock it).

This is true, though really these memory kits are so mainstream it never dawned on me to actually study the warranty. So point to you.

I'd like to note one thing, however:

To achieve the rated 5200 MT/s that Intel and AMD officially list support for on their respective data sheets you have to enable XMP / EXPO, otherwise your memory will run at 4800 MT/s. So you have to void your warranty to run memory that's officially supported by their respective data sheets? This goes for DDR4 as well, a 3200 kit will run quite abit slower without enabling XMP. Intel explicitly lists DDR4 3200 support since 11th gen.