Looking for a new computer

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Pilgram
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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Pilgram » Thu, 16. Feb 23, 17:19

OK. How about an idea of what I need to look at and under $2,000. would that work?
Just some idea of what to look at.

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felter
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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by felter » Thu, 16. Feb 23, 18:38

You could try looking at Xidax computers, they do, do some prebuilds but more importantly they do custom-builds, and they seem to be well liked while maybe a little bit expensive but what isn't nowadays.
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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Pilgram » Thu, 16. Feb 23, 20:09

I would buy off the shelf if I knew what to look at.

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by felter » Thu, 16. Feb 23, 20:56

Without being with you in the shop, there is nothing we can do for you if you are just going to buy off the shelf as there is no way for us to know what is on offer, the chances are neither does the person who is selling it to you, they will just tell you one thing and sell you another. There are several YouTube videos on the pitfalls of buying an off the shelf gaming PC and how they will rip you off, but if that's what you want, then go for it.


An example Linus Tech Tips Best Buy gaming PC.
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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 16. Feb 23, 23:18

I'm going to stick my neck out here and suggest something that might be unpopular. It seems to me that the OP's problem is that they have no confidence in their ability to shop for the right system or parts without getting ripped off or being disappointed in the outcome.

I would suggest putting off the buying decision for a while and spending that time researching/learning and getting a bit more up to speed on what the hardware jargon and techie stuff means and what effect it has on the system's capabilities and limitations. It is/was not that difficult, even for a dinosaur like me - eg read reputable reviews, etc. Only go out and buy a built system, a custom shop-build, or parts for self-build when you are confident to do so and know what you are getting and at what price/convenience.

This will do two things; first it will stand you in good stead for this next system and any future ones, second it will save you hating anyone who suggests something that you buy and then find disappointing for whatever reason. :wink:
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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by burger1 » Fri, 17. Feb 23, 05:09

Here's the cpu performance thread. However it's kind of been made much less relevant due to the new beta possibly decreasing cpu demand.

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=427248

Here's some cpu benchmark results.

https://youtu.be/AdvWGEzYqg4?t=268

The most common prebuilt rip offs are cases with bad ventilation. If the front of the case is solid or nearly solid vs mesh the case likely has bad cooling.

Inadequate cpu coolers. Cooler cannot cool the cpu at high loads. Any single fan (120mm or 140mm) water cooler will likely fail the test. Tower coolers with just one tower and 4 heat pipes usually cool at max 130w. Air cooling is simpler as it's just a couple fans on a piece of metal attached to the cpu. If it breaks you can easily tell. With water cooling it's no so easy to see if the cooling is broken but not really complicated.

Ram speeds. They can use slower ram and sometimes only use 1 stick. Need 2 sticks for dual channel which is much faster.

Cheap power supplies. Probably won't be able to tell. Look for unusually thin wires. Might be able to read the brand/label.

They can use cheap ssds. There's some bad dramless ssds but less common these days.

Bad prebuilts and scams (way overpriced/outdated/trash pcs) are the norm and very common.

You are by a newegg? Are you by a micro centre, best buy, etc...?

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by burger1 » Fri, 17. Feb 23, 18:37

https://www.microcenter.com/site/conten ... -save.aspx

Micro centre has some bundles. A ddr4 mainboard and intel cpu can be had for about $300-380, ddr4 ram 16 or 32 gb about $45-108 (can get away with 2x8=16gb currently), nvme drive 970 evo $80, ak620 cpu cooler $60 (noisy at higher speeds?) or another lga1700 cooler ~$80, 850w power supply ~$140-160 (prices seem quite high can get cheaper power supplies on sale), pc case $60-100, gpu $350-550 (3060 vs 3070) (amd gpu should be better value per dollar), assembly $150, buy cheap china region windows and use code ~$16 and install it yourself or maybe give them the code?

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by felter » Fri, 17. Feb 23, 23:53

Never thought on Microcenter, checked them out on their custom build, disappointed they didn't have the cooler I would want or the case I would want, but I could always buy them some place else as they say they will fit them in the build even if they are bought elsewhere. They also have some good deals on the go for motherboards and CPU, but saying all that wouldn't matter to me as I'm not in the states, but yeah if you're desperate enough they are a reasonable choice to go with. Once again the American pre-built market sucks, their choice is pretty much limited to 6 computers 2 of them are Dell (keep away) and an HP (also keep away) which leaves a cheap Lenevo which is pretty much outdated and 2 PowerSpec (never heard of them) the cheapest of the 2 seems to be reasonable (on paper) but at $1600 it's over his budget of $1300.
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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Pilgram » Sat, 18. Feb 23, 01:25

Off the shelf
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-rog-s ... Id=6486485

$$1,299.99Your price for this item is $1,299.99
Save $400
Was $1,699.99
The previous price was $1,699.99

I would just get this one if it was a desk top, but I keep going back to a desk top.

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Pilgram » Sat, 18. Feb 23, 13:47

I guess I can't get what I would like at that price point so what would be a good deal desk top and or where to look?
Looked at this one at Best buy.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpower ... Id=6500511
on sale.

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by felter » Sat, 18. Feb 23, 16:14

Answering the question is it any good is pretty hard because as usual the amount of information Best buy gives is pretty limited, for example it doesn't tell you what the motherboards make or model is or even while it tells you how much ram it has, and it's speed it doesn't say if it's one stick or two or the make and model.

Now, after a little internet search and a watching of a YouTube video, it seems like that computer is actually pretty good for an off the shelf computer. It does have a couple of issues, the first is it's cooling pretty much sucks literally all the case fan blow the hot air out there is no intake fan that blows air in, there is just a vent on the top of the computer for it to suck cool air in, which limits its cooling making it a hot computer to run, potentially reducing its lifespan. It may be possible to fit a fan onto the top that could be used to blow air in, but without being able to look at the case (which once again I have no idea what make or model is), I don't know how easy or hard that would be. This leads to another issue, the fans themselves are pretty noisy, I reckon that's because they are working overtime to move the air as the system heats up, once again a fan on top would help with this but also replacing the case fans with better fans could also help.

Personal grumbles it doesn't have a big enough NVMe drive as it is only 500 MB, but that could easily be replaced, or another larger one added as it has a spare NVMe slot also myself a still like a large HDD, and it only has a 1 TB drive fitted with the size of games today Red Dead 2 for example that is 150 MB you find the storage space rapidly filled up. Without being able to look at the case, not sure how easy it would be to fit a new larger Hard drive, but these are personal and not something that goes against the computer.

But for what I have read and watched, it seems to one of the better budget gaming PC's that you can get off the shelf for that price.

Totally way out there and is not meant for the OP, but doesn't the clock speed of the i7-12700F seem a little bit low with it being just 2.1 GHz, I mean if I was building a new computer right now, I would probably go for an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, and its clock speed is 3.8 GHz while both their boost speeds are quite similar at 4.9 GHz and 4.7 GHz respectively, it does make me scratch my head at the lowly 2.1 GHz of the 12700F.
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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Pilgram » Sat, 18. Feb 23, 16:57

That's where I keep running into brick wall. Is it up-gradable to a Ryzen 7 5800X not nessary. Can the case be made to handle better cooling. Not questions just thinking out load.
I know it would be asking a lot, but what I need is one in my range that is a good computer and I'll worry about some upgrading it later. And a finger pointing to it. Just something to get me started.
A PM would work.
Thanks

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Pilgram » Sat, 18. Feb 23, 22:55

looks good Yes No ?

HP OMEN - 40L Gaming Desktop - Intel Core i5-12400F - HyperX 16GB Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 - 1TB SSD - Nightfall Black
Model:GT21-0014
SKU:6504335
On sale $1,299.99
Intel 12th Generation Core i5
This Processor Model is Medium. The range includes Budget, Low, Medium, High.
Mid-grade processor
Multitasks well
Easily manages music and video
System Memory (RAM)
16 gigabytes
This System Memory (RAM) is Medium. The range includes Low, Medium, High.
Low
Medium
High
Handles heavy applications
Great for advanced gaming
Graphics
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060
This Graphics is High-End. The range includes Entry-Level, Mid-Range, High-End.
Entry-Level
Mid-Range
High-End
Offers gameplay at max settings
Powerful and efficient
Ideal for gaming enthusiasts
Storage Type
SSD
This Storage Type is SSD. The range includes HDD, SSD, HDD+SSD.
HDD
SSD
HDD+SSD
Some capacity for HD files
Apps and games run faster than with HDD
Optimal gaming performance
Total Storage Capacity
1000 gigabytes
This Total Storage Capacity is Medium. The range includes Small, Medium, Large
Small
Medium
Large
Great for most uses
Starting point for gaming or high-res video
Some photo/video editing
Key Specs
Processor Model
Intel 12th Generation Core i5
Processor Model Number
12400F
Processor Speed (up to)
2.5 gigahertz
Storage Type
SSD
Total Storage Capacity
1000 gigabytes
Solid State Drive Capacity
1000 gigabytes
System Memory (RAM)
16 gigabytes
Graphics
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060
Operating System
Windows 11 Home
General
Product Name
40L Gaming Desktop - Intel Core i5-12400F - HyperX 16GB Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 - 1TB SSD
Brand
HP OMEN
Size
Standard
Model Number
GT21-0014
Year of Release
2022
Color
Nightfall Black
Color Category
Black
Processor
Processor Brand Intel
Processor Model
Intel 12th Generation Core i5
Processor Model Number
12400F
Processor Cores
6-core
Processor Speed (up to)
2.5 gigahertz
Storage
Storage Type
SSD
Total Storage Capacity
1000 gigabytes
Solid State Drive Capacity
1000 gigabytes
Solid State Drive Interface
NVMe
Hard Drive Accelerator
None
Memory
System Memory (RAM)
16 gigabytes
Type of Memory (RAM)
DDR4
System Memory RAM Speed
3200 megahertz
Cache Memory
18 megabytes
Number Of Memory Slots
4
Number of Memory Sticks Included
2
System Memory RAM Expandable To
128 gigabytes
Graphics
Graphics Type
Dedicated
GPU Brand
NVIDIA
Graphics
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060
Video Memory Type
Dedicated
Video Memory
12000 megabytes
Compatibility
Operating System
Windows 11 Home
Connectivity
Wireless Connectivity
Bluetooth, Wi-Fi
Network Connectivity
None
Wireless Networking
Wireless-AX
Microphone Input
Yes
Ethernet Card
10/100/1000
Number Of Ethernet Ports
1
Number of VGA Ports
0
Number Of DVI Ports
0
Number of HDMI Outputs (Total)
1
Number of USB Ports (Total)
10
Number of USB 2.0 Type A Ports
4
Number of USB 3.0 Type A Ports
3
Number of USB 3.0 Type C Ports
1
Number of USB 3.1 Type C Ports
1
Number of DisplayPort Outputs (Total)
3
Number of Thunderbolt Ports (Total)
0
Number Of IEEE 1394 Ports
0
Power
Power Supply Maximum Wattage 600 watts
Expansion
Number of M.2 Slots
3
Number Of Internal 2.5" Bays
2
Number Of Internal 3.5" Bays
2
Number Of PCI-E x4 Slots
1
Number Of PCI-E x16 Slots
1
Features
Cooling System
Air
Customizable Keyboard Lighting
No
Media Card Reader
No
Customizable Case Lighting
Yes
Audio Technology
5.1 Surround
Dimension
Product Height
18.4 inches
Product Width
8 inches
Product Depth
18.5 inches
Product Weight
41.23 pounds
Certifications & Listings
ENERGY STAR Certified
Yes
EPEAT Qualified
Yes
EPEAT Level
Gold
Included
Included Software
Windows 11 Home
Optical Drive Type
None
Keyboard Included
Yes
Mouse Included
Yes

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by burger1 » Sun, 19. Feb 23, 03:14

Costco has some pcs. Costco has some membership thing.

https://www.costco.com/desktops-servers ... ttr-Gaming

This one might be better gpu wise? 3060 ti is much faster than 3060 by about 30%. i7-11700F is about 6% slower than the i5-12400f? Hopefully 16gb ram is 2 sticks. 1 stick is notably worse than 2 sticks. Want 2 sticks for dual channel.

https://www.costco.com/skytech-blaze-3- ... 12121.html

i7-11700f vs i5-12400f

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvypIKAc4R8

There's a 3070 with 32gb for a $100 more. Not sure if it's worth it for the extra ram and stuff? 3070 ~ 7% faster than a 3060 ti? X4 is still cpu bound.

https://www.costco.com/skytech-chronos- ... 47249.html

You get a keyboard and mouse but they might be quite bad?

90 day return policy at costco?

Electronics: Costco will accept returns within 90 days (from the date the member received the merchandise) for Televisions, Projectors, Major Appliances (refrigerators above 10 cu. ft., freezers, ranges, cooktops, over-the-range microwaves, range hoods, dishwashers, water heaters, washers and dryers), Computers, Touchscreen Tablets, Smart Watches, Cameras, Aerial Cameras (drones), Camcorders, MP3 players and Cellular Phones (return details will vary by carrier service contract).

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 19. Feb 23, 11:02

That Costco's "Skytech" has some more details on Skytech's own page: https://skytechgaming.com/product/0320- ... 060ti-16g/
Similarly, the Bestbuy is just a reseller. For example, the HP and CyberPowerPC are builders, just like the Skytech.
The HP Omen case seems to have a glass on "front bezel"? Solid front, unlike the Phanteks in the Skytech.

Only one memory module, or cheap mouse/keyboard are "upgradeable"; not an immediate concern if system does look upgradeable. The HP is more likely to be non-standard, less modifiable.

Some monitors do have speakers too, so separate speakers are not compulsory.
Headphones are said to be "more bang for buck" compared to speakers.

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Pilgram » Sun, 19. Feb 23, 12:07

Which one would have a better case?

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 19. Feb 23, 14:59

Cases have more technical and more subjective features.
* Cooling is quite clearly "more is better"
* Quietness is nice, but usually at cost of cooling
* Cleanliness. Dust does gather over time. Some cases have easy to clean filters on intakes
* How easy/possible it is to replace components. If that is rare, then less important
* The looks. Some like RGB-lights, some don't


The CyberPowerPC Gamer Xtreme Gaming Desktop, which felter estimated to be bad at cooling, does look like Lian Li Lancool model and the two fans on the side front most likely draw air in rather than push out. Therefore, two intake fans and one exhaust at the back. Typical good setup.

The Skytech Blaze 3 in burger1 post has Phanteks case with two intake fans in front. The most typical setup. If you look at the front of the case in pictures, it is a mesh and air flows through it.
There is, however, the AIO liquid cooler's radiator in the front, cooled by those front fans. On one hand the CPU cooling is good. On another, the incoming air warms up in the radiator, so the GPU gets a bit warmer air.

The HP Omen 40L case seems to have solid front and the two intake fans that we see through the glass do draw air from the sides.
Either there is less airflow because drawing air is harder, or there is more noise if the fans work harder.

One should be able to find reviews of Lian Li and Phanteks cases, with temperature and noise measurements. HP ... I bet not.


Both CyberPowerPC and Skytech do have their own websites and seem to have option to make a custom build in addition to these pre-made designs.
It might be that Bestbuy and Costco offer conveniences and discounts that direct trade with those builders does not.

Pilgram
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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Pilgram » Sun, 19. Feb 23, 22:29

I kinda like the Skytech.

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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by Pilgram » Tue, 21. Feb 23, 20:34

I you would check to see if there is a difference in the two of these and let me know it would be much appreciated. One is white and the other is black. I did order the white one but can cancel it if necessary.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/skytech-ga ... Id=6489648
Skytech Gaming - Blaze 3.0 Gaming Desktop PC - Intel i7-11700F - 16GB 3200 Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti - 1TB NVMe - 240mm AIO - White $1,199.99

https://www.costco.com/skytech-blaze-3- ... 12121.html
Skytech Blaze 3 Gaming Desktop - 11th Gen Intel Core i7-11700F - GeForce RTX 3060Ti, Black $11499

Is the white one an OK computer and your thoughts on it?

I was looking at some of the games coming put for 2023 Crimson Desert
Elder Scrolls Vl Would this computer play them?
They look high end graphics.

You people here have been so much help and patient in putting up with me.
I can't thank you enough.
Lee

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felter
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Re: Looking for a new computer

Post by felter » Tue, 21. Feb 23, 21:49

Stay away from Skytech, while their PC's may look to be good value the company itself is a little bit sketchy, with little to no customer support meaning while everything might be great if it works but have any kind of issue, and they will screw you over.

Their Better Business Bureau page, a 1.55/5 score, is not a good selling point.
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