To be seen.
I see this is mostly a Russia problem however, not much a US or Ukraine problem.
The whole restriction of staying away from Russian targets pre Crimea is silly anyways.
So let's see how this develops
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To be seen.
Gimli wrote:Let the Orcs come as thick as summer-moths round a candle!
It does seem so. They are at war. Ukraine has suffered tremendous death and destruction. Why should Ukraine have any compunctions against fomenting discord and disruption within Russia? It's not like Ukraine is interested in claiming legitimate Russian territory.
This is why Ukraine CANNOT have an active hand in providing material support for such activities, since so much of their supplies come from international support. Even if they are just donating equipment originally from Ukraine, this has a bad look. If Russians want to have a civil war to oust their own leadership, they must do it without getting military supplies indirectly from the US via the Ukrainian government. This would given enough time totally undermine the support Ukraine is receiving to resist the Russian invasion, which is the last thing I want to see happen.Acipeo wrote: ↑Tue, 23. May 23, 01:07This article is missing a couple of minor details.chew-ie wrote: ↑Mon, 22. May 23, 19:11Hot times @Belgorod region - russian partisans not only sabotage trains anymore but openly attacking.
@source theguardian.com anti-kremlin-militia-freedom-of-russia-legion-overrun-russian-border-village-kozinka
1) These partisans drove from Ukrainian territory on American military vehicle (HMMWV and International MaxxPro). There is photo and video evidence of this.
2) They drove through the border checkpoint (killing the border guards) with the support of the Ukrainian T-72 tank. I did not find evidence here, except for one video in which a Ukrainian tank passes next to the partisans in the parking lot before crossing the border.
So... there are at least 4 questions:
1) Where do ordinary Russian partisans get American military equipment?
2) Is it true that the Ukrainian command has nothing to do with this?
3) If the answer to question 2 is "yes", then where did the Russian partisans get the Ukrainian tank from?
4) How does the US administration feel about the fact that their weapons are being transferred to an unknown group of people who are not connected with the Ukrainian command?
AFAIK the Freedom of Russia Legion (or: The Liberty of Russia Legion) has it's origins in the russian army. They are basically defectors who questioned the war goals of Putin.felter wrote: ↑Tue, 23. May 23, 01:04There were two groups involved, The Liberty of Russia Legion and the Russian Volunteer Corps. The Liberty of Russia Legion are Ukrainian Russians who probably lived in Ukraine to get away from the Russian regime and are now back into the Russian fold and are not happy about it, even though they are from Ukraine and operate mainly from Ukraine they have nothing to do with Ukraine, or it's government. The Russian Volunteer Corps as far as I'm aware are actual Russians who live in Russia, also as far as I heard they were the ones responsible for the attack on the Kremlin and that attack was a message for Putin to be afraid and it worked.
@source UK mod @twitter: https://twitter.com/defencehq(1/6) Between 19 and 22 May 2023, Russian security forces highly likely clashed with partisans in at least three locations within Russia’s Belgorod Oblast, near the Ukrainian border.
[..]
(5/6) Russia is facing an increasingly serious multi-domain security threat in its border regions, with losses of combat aircraft, improvised explosive device attacks on rail lines, and now direct partisan action.
(6/6) Russia will almost certainly use these incidents to support the official narrative that it is the victim in the war.
I think, despite the rhetoric from Russia saying they're not the aggressors but are merely defending themselves, Putin knows Ukraine has no intention of attacking Russian territory other than to destroy military hardware. -And any Ukrainian special forces operating in Russia aren't likely to be stopped at the border, no matter how many military they have stationed there.chew-ie wrote: ↑Tue, 23. May 23, 12:16The partisan topic aside - it's quite astonishing how the second best army could have failed in such a way in terms of border security. There is literally a small army marching through russian territory which borders a warzone. Shouldn't they have some military there?
At this point, we can just as well expect:
Gimli wrote:Let the Orcs come as thick as summer-moths round a candle!
Where did they get American equipment? See the links below and look to countries that operate the platforms.Acipeo wrote: ↑Tue, 23. May 23, 01:07This article is missing a couple of minor details.
1) These partisans drove from Ukrainian territory on American military vehicle (HMMWV and International MaxxPro). There is photo and video evidence of this.
2) They drove through the border checkpoint (killing the border guards) with the support of the Ukrainian T-72 tank. I did not find evidence here, except for one video in which a Ukrainian tank passes next to the partisans in the parking lot before crossing the border.
I doubt, given that current Georgian goverment is pro-Russian - they even resume Russia-Georgia air flights several days ago.
Is she pro Russian?
During an interview with DW News in May 2022, Zourabichvili stated that Georgia was in full compliance with the international financial sanctions on Russia and wanted a "quicker and shorter path towards integration" into NATO and the EU
Gimli wrote:Let the Orcs come as thick as summer-moths round a candle!
Let's be honest. The partisans were coming from the territory of Ukraine. Any supply of weapons to Ukraine is possible only through the territory of Europe. The transfer of weapons is possible only with the consent of the country of origin. Armored cars are not something that can be smuggled in your pocket. So we basically have 2 options:
Heh, I didn't think of that!felter wrote: ↑Wed, 24. May 23, 01:53Here's a thing, if Ukraine had supplied the APC's that were used that would mean Ukraine would have had to have driven those APC's across the Russian front lines, over all the defences that Russia has prepared to stop a Ukrainian counter-offensive, all the way to the Russian border and beyond, without the Russian troops noticing them, which if true, means things are really not looking good for the Russian troops on those front lines.
Gimli wrote:Let the Orcs come as thick as summer-moths round a candle!
A stinger can not shoot down a passenger plane, they fly between 10-12 km from the earth. A stinger has a service ceiling of 3.8km. The only way you are going to shoot down a commercial airliner with a stinger is if you catch it while starting or landing and that could also be accomplished with much cheaper Soviet made MANPADs which have been available on black markets for a long long time now.Acipeo wrote: ↑Wed, 24. May 23, 01:23[...]
Now let's think a little more. These people can keep a few Stingers. And then these Stingers may appear on the black market. After this some passenger plane may fall in any part of the planet. Could it be?
What I want to say... weapons must not be transferred to third parties, no matter: good they or not. There are no perfect people. People are evil and greedy.
It's very big mistake if Ukraine did this.