2020 US presidential election

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RegisterMe
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by RegisterMe » Thu, 11. Apr 19, 00:14

Mightysword wrote:
Wed, 10. Apr 19, 23:50
Someone said in the Trump thread said recently you need someone as crazy as Trump to beat Trump, and it's the sad truth.
Masterbagger said that in the Trump thread, which was the first time I'd seen it.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Observe » Thu, 11. Apr 19, 00:21

It all depends on whether enough people are bored with Trump's narrative to be seeking greener pastures. However, I don't see the current nationalist sentiments going away any time soon. One of the challenges facing liberals, is coming up with a convincing argument for global socialism.

We seem to be at a crossroad - perhaps one that will determine our survival on the planet. I'm not sure any conventional solution will answer the major problems we collectively face. Liberals are too pie-in-the-sky and conservatives are too stuck-in-the-mud. In the meantime, history is happening and I'm not sure anyone at the wheel has much in the way of clarity, because so much that we face, is unprecedented in the history of our species.

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Masterbagger » Fri, 12. Apr 19, 06:01

Observe wrote:
Thu, 11. Apr 19, 00:21
It all depends on whether enough people are bored with Trump's narrative to be seeking greener pastures. However, I don't see the current nationalist sentiments going away any time soon. One of the challenges facing liberals, is coming up with a convincing argument for global socialism.

We seem to be at a crossroad - perhaps one that will determine our survival on the planet. I'm not sure any conventional solution will answer the major problems we collectively face. Liberals are too pie-in-the-sky and conservatives are too stuck-in-the-mud. In the meantime, history is happening and I'm not sure anyone at the wheel has much in the way of clarity, because so much that we face, is unprecedented in the history of our species.
We are definitely at a crossroads. We need to decide whether we are going to be a socialist nation or not and we need to settle it whatever the hell it takes. Even if we have to fight over it. It needs to happen.
Who made that man a gunner?

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Ketraar » Fri, 12. Apr 19, 17:20

Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 12. Apr 19, 06:01
We need to decide whether we are going to be a socialist nation or not
:rofl:

You are too funny...

MFG

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Masterbagger » Sat, 13. Apr 19, 04:30

Ketraar wrote:
Fri, 12. Apr 19, 17:20
Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 12. Apr 19, 06:01
We need to decide whether we are going to be a socialist nation or not
:rofl:

You are too funny...

MFG

Ketraar
Here is something from back in 2015.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0fA7inVhTs

I don't know the name of the lady with the exaggerated expression of mocking incredulity. She is what I want you to see. She could have just asked why Coulter said what she did and maybe have either learned something or simply understood a thought process that led to an opinion. She did not even try. She went straight to mocking. There is an expression about the person who gets the last laugh here that is suitable.
Who made that man a gunner?

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Ketraar
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Ketraar » Sat, 13. Apr 19, 10:31

Dude I dont care, You saying there is a choice on the table for the US to "become" socialist ist silly, you either are trolling or you have no clue what socialist means. So I assumed you were being funny, if not, well I'm sorry for you.

MFG

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PS.: Ann Coulter is a attention seeking c*** much like her boss, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Morkonan » Sun, 14. Apr 19, 23:43

Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 12. Apr 19, 06:01
We are definitely at a crossroads. We need to decide whether we are going to be a socialist nation or not and we need to settle it whatever the hell it takes. Even if we have to fight over it. It needs to happen.
Observe wrote:
Thu, 11. Apr 19, 00:21
...is unprecedented in the history of our species.
These sorts of statements and others like them aren't really much different, even though they come from different ends of the spectrum.

Every political party is upping the stakes in response to Trump's rhetoric and, frankly, some of dumbest crap any sitting political leader has ever said, ever... Everyone is moving towards "extremist garbage talk with little substance" just to inflame their political base and solidify some kind of inspiring, for some, platform.

IMO, any political conflict we're experiencing right now is based on lies.

What are we fighting? What is "the big battle where all the biggest names and most important stuffs will be decided?"

Lies and liars.

It's not even about "extremism" anymore. It's not even about the most extreme views of political parties. It's about lies. It's about liars. It's about the public accepting a lie just because they'd rather believe in it than the lie the other guy is offering up. It's an era of choosing what lie one likes and would like to take with one on vacation rather than the lie the other person is offering.

I've watched a few of the interviews and "Town Hall Gropefest Love-Ins" sponsored by the media (CNN) and such. They're all BS. Every darn one of them is BS. Every single one of the Democrat candidates I have seen voice something that comes sliding out of their mouth has not just a few giant whopper lies in it.

You guys want a battle over something important, it seems, and the most important dramatic things to battle about are going to be at the extreme end of the spectrum of values and beliefs. And, the way the politicians are encouraging you to enter that fight is by feeding everyone as many outright pieces of BS they can in order to motivate voters and inflame the situation so that it has as much dramatic import in people's minds as a... war.

It's friggin' stupid what's going on. Politicians may as well be puppeteers and the very "best" ones, the ones who are going to be successful, are likely the ones that will make the most resilient strings. Those strings are going to be based on lies, generally propped up by the desirability of "extremism" and how motivated it can make people to vote.

I'm sick of seeing it. I don't want to be here. But, I'm here... Seeing a bunch of people lie and construct fantasies and spout crap just to gain an empathetic response they can then move, just by continuing to talk, towards some random policy statement that will easily then be available for the crowd to "release that support" on and feel good about doing it... It's pathetic. I could get a dead cat elected to President of the United States if somebody gave me enough money.

And then, those same people leap out to regain that feeling and sit in echo-chambers, goosing each other's emotions to new heights, and the storm out the door to assault the evil-other-guy just so they can shine up their White-Knight-Armor given to them by their chosen prophets. And never once do they sit back and question the lies. That would be too personally damaging. It's far safer and feels oh-so-much-better to just charge ahead with the rest of their comrades in arms taking part in the Crusade.

Meanwhile, under some bridge in some cold place in some region of the country that doesn't give a crap, there's a homeless person about to die or some kid that doesn't have enough to eat or some woman getting raped or a man getting murdered. That doesn't play very well on camera, though, and having a dirty shirt because one just got back from helping out their neighbor doesn't look good on television.

Watching some douche named Rep. Eric Swalwell talk about all his positive qualities and wholesome values standing in front of a microphone right now wearing some dumbass "NOTICE ME RIBBON" right now... "I will not take money from big interest groups an yada yada yada but I will sure appeal to you by wearing this pin on my shirt so you are more sympathetic towards me if that pin means something special to you and you didn't see me throughout most of my existence not wearing such a pin. Oh, an' lemme now talk 'bout the senseless slaughter of babies!"

Lies.

Eat 'em up, people! They're free!

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by BugMeister » Sun, 21. Apr 19, 13:33

Thom Hartmann raises some interesting points:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ0H5cYiHmM

- the Replicant's have no political policies worthy of note, except

1. the pursuit and retention of personal wealth and corporate power
2. screw the poor and the weak.
3. hate all strangers

- they are effectively unelectable.. :o :o :o
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Yaunm » Tue, 23. Apr 19, 14:34

#Hillary2020
#Biden2020

Either of the above should easily beat Trump.

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by fiksal » Tue, 23. Apr 19, 18:57

Yaunm wrote:
Tue, 23. Apr 19, 14:34
#Hillary2020
#Biden2020

Either of the above should easily beat Trump.
Hm. Well... that all depends I suppose on what voters want.

We already tried with Clinton. I personally saw no issues with her being that particular public servant, but the (mathematically important) voters got stuck on various parts of their own mythology.

She won't run again, instead Biden will. Not sure what his message is or will be.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Morkonan » Tue, 23. Apr 19, 22:36

Yaunm wrote:
Tue, 23. Apr 19, 14:34
#Hillary2020
#Biden2020

Either of the above should easily beat Trump.
Hillary wouldn't win. If she ran again she'd likely end up getting "burned at the stake"... To say that she is "disliked" by a great many voters is an understatement. Yes, she "almost won." But, that may be due to more people voting against Trump than voting for her. This next election, the voters need to be "voting FOR" the challenger - They'll need enthusiastic supporters to counter Trump's base.

Biden? Maybe. He has a wholesome, if bumbling, "Uncle Joe" image he can cultivate. But, his campaign needs some fire and enthusiasm and that may be difficult for people to fuel. In short - Biden is "boring." He has to get "exciting" and I don't know if he can do that particular shtick.

I will say that the rest of the field, aside from Biden, is pretty crappy. The amount of shameless pandering is ridiculous. It's just plain sleazy.

"Let's do away with all student loans! Reparation for black Americans for slavery! Free money for <insert voting segment here>. Let's let children vote, 'cause maybe you're a young person and want to feel mature! If you don't want to vote for this homosexual, no matter the reason, you're not a positively Progressive and socially aware person and are probably a gay-hater! Let's let criminals vote, just in case someone in your family is in jail! Did we mention the FREE MONEY yet? If not - FREE MONEY! We need "reasonable gun safety laws" and maybe, probably, I will demand that something be done, probably, and if it isn't then I might do something! MAYBE!"

Not one Democratic hopeful that I've read about or seen on the idiot-box has said one concrete, quantitative, positively informative and predictive statement about exactly what their policy on something of reasonable concern happens to be. ZERO. It's all pandering to the most common denominators right now and seeking the most enthusiastic supporters they can get. A lot of them are pandering for the support of younger voters. Why is that?

Young people often enthusiastically volunteer to "help" (limited duration indentured servitude) political campaigns and get assigned to do all the tiresome, tough, grunt-work like going door-to-door and handing out fliers and setting up the chairs at rallies and working the telephones and yada yada yada... Gotta get some free staffers from somewhere, right? It's not like young people actually "vote." They don't. But, they do cheer a lot and enthusiastically swell the crowds at rallies so they look good for the camera.

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Mightysword » Wed, 24. Apr 19, 00:14

Morkonan wrote:
Tue, 23. Apr 19, 22:36
"Let's do away with all student loans!"
I cring so freaking hard yesterday when I read Warren's big reveal, especially the part about how she gonna pay for it. But then I realize I will have to cring even harder when so many people will believe it. On the record, I'm someone who is in a position that has everything to gain and nothing to lose believe in her promising. But I don't, and not because I'm some masochist who enjoyed pain.

I feel it only takes one iota of rational thinking and understanding to know it's an empty promise.

- If she says this while truly believe it, then while maybe she's not a liar, but I wouldn't want someone that stupid to be the president. (And in case someone gonna follow up with "But Trump is stupid and he's the president", I'll repeat what I had said many time before: Trump is an arshole, but he's not stupid. And so far everyone who call him stupid end up looking a bigger idiots than Trump.)
- If she says this knowing it's simply an empty promise, than she proves herself again just another crook preying on a vulnerable population.


If she has a team that is seriously good enough to pull off this promise, than that team would be more than good enough to fix the current taxcode. It will be less controversial while achieve far more than this little scheme of her. But I guess that's old news and won't win her political brownie points.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Observe » Thu, 25. Apr 19, 01:18

Pete Buttigieg looks like he may be worth looking at. At thirty-seven years old, he would be the youngest person to hold the office of President. CNN rates him among the top five Democratic candidates

Buttigieg in Chicago for fundraisers; gains support from major Obama donors
Buttigieg is the youngest running; he is openly gay; he was a Navy officer; he is a Harvard grad; he speaks multiple languages; he is not from the East or West coasts; and he is an outsider. He is also getting an incredible amount of flattering media coverage.

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 25. Apr 19, 09:49

- the Replicants are just a bunch of snake-oil merchants..

- they have NO POLICIES AT ALL..
- and you know it.. :lol:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Yaunm » Thu, 25. Apr 19, 12:31

fiksal wrote:
Tue, 23. Apr 19, 18:57

We already tried with Clinton. I personally saw no issues with her being that particular public servant, but the (mathematically important) voters got stuck on various parts of their own mythology.

She won't run again, instead Biden will. Not sure what his message is or will be.
Ah, this is too bad, she did win the popular vote after all. Sure it should be more difficult now, but, for the sake of democracy, i don't see why she Democrats don't just redistribute the votes of undocumented citizens to the right states to ensure proper result.

Biden makes a great candidate too though. He is all pro-diversity, especially in family matters. Here is his program https://joebiden.info. Self explanatory really, and i'm sure all Liberals will love it, once this starts making the rounds in the mainstream media.

Who else we got

Sanders - 79 years old, should he win.
Buttigieg - gay
Warren - Pocahontas
Harris - a black woman

Sounds like Trump has no chance.

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Observe » Thu, 25. Apr 19, 16:22

Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 12. Apr 19, 06:01
We are definitely at a crossroads. We need to decide whether we are going to be a socialist nation or not and we need to settle it whatever the hell it takes. Even if we have to fight over it. It needs to happen.
Too late. In case you hadn't noticed, the U.S. is already a socialist nation. We just don't have a very functional version of it yet; because we still cling to the quaint notion that the individual is more important than the society.

Ever heard of social security or medicare? How about public roads, public schools, the post office and the fire department. All these are funded by taxation and regulated by the people (government). If it wasn't for socialism, America would be even more oppressed than it currently is. Don't worry so much about socialism. Your narrative is full of mythical boogeymen.

Early American Capitalism was marked by the slave trade. There was a civil war fought over that. The South lost, but the war rages on in the minds of white supremacists, militia organizations and others looking to the past with fondness (make America great "again"). Gun fanatic dinosaurs often belong to such groups, because they somehow feel that history wronged them and that guns will empower them to change the past. Not going to happen.

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Yaunm » Thu, 25. Apr 19, 17:13

Observe wrote:
Thu, 25. Apr 19, 16:22
to change the past. Not going to happen.
Except for Trump in 2016. And Trump in 2020. And Brexit. What past are you talking about here?

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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by fiksal » Thu, 25. Apr 19, 22:34

Yaunm wrote:
Thu, 25. Apr 19, 12:31
Ah, this is too bad, she did win the popular vote after all. Sure it should be more difficult now, but, for the sake of democracy, i don't see why she Democrats don't just redistribute the votes of undocumented citizens to the right states to ensure proper result.
Clinton did win indeed. But people dont elect Presidents in US.

"redistribute" ? "undocumented" citizens? I guess we can hire the gestapo / aka ICE, seems up their alley.

Does the cost outweigh the benefit though?

Yaunm wrote:
Thu, 25. Apr 19, 12:31
Biden makes a great candidate too though. He is all pro-diversity, especially in family matters. Here is his program https://joebiden.info. Self explanatory really, and i'm sure all Liberals will love it, once this starts making the rounds in the mainstream media.
Question is - is being "touchy" enough to win Trump voters? Maybe he has a winning strategy for getting voters on the other side of the pond. What's the winning level of harassment exactly? Someone needs to measure.
Yaunm wrote:
Thu, 25. Apr 19, 12:31
Sounds like Trump has no chance.
I wouldnt say so, - I think if Trump rages some more, blames more Mexicans on not building his tiny wall, maybe shoots someone in New York, that'll put him back on a horse. So to speak. I think at that point we dont even need to do another election, ever.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Mightysword » Fri, 26. Apr 19, 00:25

fiksal wrote:
Thu, 25. Apr 19, 22:34
Clinton did win indeed.
Clinton win the popular vote, she did not win the presidential race. Which is a race where the rule are clearly defined and has been so for hundreds of years. Don't like it? Fine, try and change it. Want it to be just a simple popularity contest? Get to work and make that reality. Until that happens, sentiment does not invalid technicality. Just like someone who doesn't like the law doesn't mean they can self-declare they are immune to such law.

But people dont elect Presidents in US.
Yes we do, or are you saying the 46mil people who voted for him are not "people" ? :roll:

This is the exact kind of display that is problematic these days in politic. Don't like Trump? Prove yourself better than him instead of just shitting on him nonestop.
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Re: 2020 US presidential election

Post by Morkonan » Fri, 26. Apr 19, 01:23

Mightysword wrote:
Wed, 24. Apr 19, 00:14
...- If she says this knowing it's simply an empty promise, than she proves herself again just another crook preying on a vulnerable population...
Just a note - This is why I made that "liars" rant. Every single Democratic hopeful that thinks they have a chance to get elected because of some expectation of a massive voter pushback against Trump is making these very same "promises" and, when they're not being so brash, hinting that they "might" make them. Every_Single_One They're saying anything they think can gain them some small portion of an audience that will "talk-them-up" until word of mouth equates to "Presidential Hopeful Status."

Now, "Uncle Joe" has announced his bid. I like Uncle Joe, but just as someone who seems to be a fairly decent guy. For a Presidential candidate? I don't know about that... He's kind of getting a bit long-in-the-tooth. He's "Old." I'm not prejudiced against old people, I just don't think he's going to get enough support to be viable because of that. He has yet to really start laying out his platform, so I have to withhold judgement until he does.
If she has a team that is seriously good enough to pull off this promise, than that team would be more than good enough to fix the current taxcode. It will be less controversial while achieve far more than this little scheme of her. But I guess that's old news and won't win her political brownie points.
For now, that's not going to get changed one little bit, IMO. Trump's "Tax Cut" still has to be absorbed before any sort of radical change could get traction. It may be that the shortfall from those cuts is going to have a ripple effect in the codes, but it's difficult to see how that could have a positive effect for Joe Taxpayer. Someone might, if they get enough popular support, try one of those "loophole closure" moves to gain more of the "99% Movement" support. But, in reality, that's not going to do very much for the balance-sheet.

Someone could say "Why don't we cut back a little bit on government spending?" Holy Crap, do you think that might happen? Heck no. It's all gonna end with printing more money.
Mightysword wrote:
Fri, 26. Apr 19, 00:25
fiksal wrote:
Thu, 25. Apr 19, 22:34
Clinton did win indeed.
Clinton win the popular vote, she did not win the presidential race. Which is a race where the rule are clearly defined and has been so for hundreds of years. Don't like it? Fine, try and change it. Want it to be just a simple popularity contest? Get to work and make that reality. Until that happens, sentiment does not invalid technicality. Just like someone who doesn't like the law doesn't mean they can self-declare they are immune to such law....
^-- This.

If two chess players sit down for a game of chess and one of them flips the board over and declares themselves the winner... They are not going to be declared the winner by the judges.

The issue on the rules is very simple to understand - We are a Representative Republic. States are sovereign entities and must have their interests protected and acknowledged. But, not all States have equal populations. Moreover, a in order to win the office, a Presidential candidate has to pay attention to regions where there are lower population concentrations, too. They can't just fly to every major metropolis and focus only on the concerns of those people while ignoring the famers and suburbanites. And, there ya go. Understanding complete. We now understand why there is an "Electoral College."

A wholly "popular vote" system would mean that candidates could just target the most dense areas of population and "win the Popular Vote."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... population

Which is kind of how Hillary Clinton LOST the election...

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