Again I die...

[Methexonion]

This site might help you decide Intel/AMD ....

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... 4030vs3958

[OwnlyMe]

This site might help you decide Intel/AMD ....

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... 4030vs3958

there's not a single gaming benchmark...
there you go:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ryzen ... 38046.html

[OwnlyMe]

i think i got my recommendation list together now..:
i5-9600k = 248€
MSI Z390-A Pro = 123€ (if that fits into your tower... otherwise ASRock Z390M Pro4 i guess.)
windows = 20€
EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G3 = 92€ (i have the g2.. as i said i have buzzing on my usb sound card and coil whine in my graphics card, but that might just be because of my 1080, i was able to get rid of the buzzing on my usb sound card with a dual transformer and the coil whine is only under specific work loads.)
total = 463€

[Methexonion]

i think i got my recommendation list together now..:
i5-9600k = 248€
MSI Z390-A Pro = 123€ (if that fits into your tower... otherwise ASRock Z390M Pro4 i guess.)
windows = 20€
EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G3 = 92€ (i have the g2.. as i said i have buzzing on my usb sound card and coil whine in my graphics card, but that might just be because of my 1080, i was able to get rid of the buzzing on my usb sound card with a dual transformer and the coil whine is only under specific work loads.)
total = 463€

Complete it please with Ram and a cooler

[Kasrith]

For gaming purposes, Intel still outperforms AMD. Even at the i5-9600k level, which is actually cheaper in the US (by about $20.00) than the Ryzen 2700X, albeit without a cooler.

For multi-threaded applications the Ryzen will typically come out ahead provided you aren't overclocking your Intel chip, which after OC, the Intel chips will still come out on top (but at a significantly higher price point).

[OwnlyMe]

[...]

Complete it please with Ram and a cooler

for the cooler i have the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO for 30€. its pretty huge and cools very good but i wouldn't throw my pc into my car to go on lan parties because the cooler is so heavy and im afraid it will break something on an uneven road^^
but it's not very easy to install.

ram:
stock speed = G.Skill RipJaws V DIMM Kit 16GB (2x8GB), DDR4-2400, CL15-15-15-35 = 100€
overclocked = G.Skill Aegis DIMM Kit 16GB (2x8GB), DDR4-3000, CL16-18-18-38 = 109€

Are you sure your ram is fried or don't you have any ddr 4 ram?
It's also unlikely that your cpu is broken.
And usually you can use your old windows 10 license, you just need to call there.

btw: wanna buy my i5-8400 for 185€ incl insured shipping ? i'd love to upgrade to an i5-9600k (im serious)

[Gavrushka]

Thanks, everyone, for their input. - I think I've decided to go for a brand new PC, and will just slot my existing graphics card into it: This one seemed decent. I'm paying a little more than I'd wanted, but it has received good reviews

Last week my graphics card blew, so I bought a new one. Last night my PC blew up too

That sounds like a power supply failure. A bad PSU will fry a bunch of things in rapid succession without being the obvious culprit. You need to get that tested and make sure it's not the cause, or you're going to bleed money.

Thank you, I had an old PC with servicable PSU, so followed your suggestion. It does look like you were right, and the old PSU had fried something or other. - The PC powered up with the new PSU, CPU fan came on, and power went to all areas, but the motherboard I guess cooked because keyboard and mouse didn't receive power, and the hard disk light didn't flash, nor was there any screen output. There were no warning beeps, so I accept that's game over. - But now I'm a little concerned. - The PC I'm getting has a 500watt PSU, and that's just what the dead one had. - The graphics card is a 1050GTI, so doesn't use much, and the I7 8700 uses only 65 watts, but I'm not as tech-savvy as once I was, so was wondering if there is some other power draw when playing games that's overstressing it.

[Morkonan]

... - But now I'm a little concerned. - The PC I'm getting has a 500watt PSU, and that's just what the dead one had. - The graphics card is a 1050GTI, so doesn't use much, and the I7 8700 uses only 65 watts, but I'm not as tech-savvy as once I was, so was wondering if there is some other power draw when playing games that's overstressing it.

The only way to know is to add everything up, using manufacturer's specs. Some sites let you do that easily using a drop-down/other stock picker menu in order to pick out an adequate PSU or they'll make recommendations for PSU.

IMO, just mine, 500 watts seems a bit low for a modern system. But, I have always been a "more power" sort of guy when it comes down to PSUs.

Here's a generic tool you can use: https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator (Just grabbed one off a quick search, there are plenty of others)

Here's a manufacturer's tool if, for instance, you'd want to use CoolerMaster - http://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Thanks, everyone, for their input. - I think I've decided to go for a brand new PC, and will just slot my existing graphics card into it: This one seemed decent. I'm paying a little more than I'd wanted, but it has received good reviews

Last week my graphics card blew, so I bought a new one. Last night my PC blew up too

That sounds like a power supply failure. A bad PSU will fry a bunch of things in rapid succession without being the obvious culprit. You need to get that tested and make sure it's not the cause, or you're going to bleed money.

Thank you, I had an old PC with servicable PSU, so followed your suggestion. It does look like you were right, and the old PSU had fried something or other. - The PC powered up with the new PSU, CPU fan came on, and power went to all areas, but the motherboard I guess cooked because keyboard and mouse didn't receive power, and the hard disk light didn't flash, nor was there any screen output. There were no warning beeps, so I accept that's game over. - But now I'm a little concerned. - The PC I'm getting has a 500watt PSU, and that's just what the dead one had. - The graphics card is a 1050GTI, so doesn't use much, and the I7 8700 uses only 65 watts, but I'm not as tech-savvy as once I was, so was wondering if there is some other power draw when playing games that's overstressing it.

Most toaster word processor bricks run on 450 watt PSUs. 500 watts is what I would call 'barely running anything' levels of power. You want to run something like a graphics card on a gaming performance machine? You want to ensure you have 800 or more watts PSU, essentially double the capacity of your basic word brick PSU.

Typically, go for around a 1,000 watt PSU. And there's a reason for that.

Even if you don't use all the capability of a PSU, the closer you are to maximum PSU performance, the less efficient and hotter it runs. The hotter it runs, the shorter its lifespan. And here's why:

One - The capacitors in the heart of the PSU are electrolytic caps. They look like C or D cell batteries (but aren't). Capacitors perform the second stage of electrical signal conditioning from AC into DC after the diode bridge. They take the pulsing DC waveform and smooth it down so that it's less a pulse, and more a ripple. If the capacitors fail, then they don't smooth out the pulses. Thus, instead of a DC ripple that only needs some minor final conditioning, you got essentially a stream of unwanted mini-surges coming out of the PSU into the sensitive 5 volt and 12 volt channels of your boards. The voltage surges mathematically become heat (V=IR ; P=IV), heat cooks small sensitive things faster than large things. The unwanted mini surges eventually whittle away at something and a card or board fails.

The key in the Capacitors for long functionality is understanding that they have something inside them called Electrolytic fluid. As a fluid, it is subject to something fluids like to do, evaporate. And of course, the hotter the fluid, the faster it evaporates. So the cooler you can run your PSU, the cooler the caps stay, and the longer they will last.


Two - The cooling fans for PSUs, especially cheap ones, are run with simple cheap DC motors. Unlike the ceiling fan in your house, which is a nearly unkillable AC motor (my ceiling fan has been running almost non-stop for nearly 15 years), the DC motors will often have physical contacts inside the motor that eventually wear out, much the same manner as the brakes on your car. Compounding this, as the contacts wear out, they produce a fine carbon dust that exacerbates the grinding, and can gum up the motor, causing it to jam when it gets bad enough. No motor, no PSU cooling fan, hot PSU. Hot PSU? Shorter cap lifespan. Shorter lifespan, micro-surges. Surges, heat. Heat, fried cards. Dead PC.

Please don't let the blue smoke out of the box, we need that for the electronics genie to do his work.

Either way, long and short of that means you want to have lots of overhead to keep the PSU from operating hot, because it'll last longer and run nicer.

Another thing to consider is also if the PSU has a built in surge protection mechanism. We're not talking the kind of surge protection you get from the 12 dollar wall strip you buy from the end cap at Wal-Mart. We're talking the ones you see being sold for $30 or more that advertise actual SURGE PROTECTION in joules of energy. I know Corsair PSUs come with, or came with built-in surge protection (my PSU is a corsair). I also use an UPS for its battery backup and surge protection ability, and that's on TOP of having a medium rating actual surge strip. So I have three (3) layers of surge protection going into my computer. That may seem like a bit much, but when you're investing hundreds to a few thousand in a PC that you want to last a decade, what's a few hundred bucks? As a personal anecdote, the house I'm in has been on the receiving end of not just lightning related surges, but surges from the power company doing things, and general irregularities comping off the grid itself. We've recently lost a dryer, and had an unknown short pop the breaker for the air-conditioner exterior tower unit. And many more strange electrical events. And the protection I put on my system has saved it where other equipment in this house has failed.

[OwnlyMe]

Thanks, everyone, for their input. - I think I've decided to go for a brand new PC, and will just slot my existing graphics card into it: This one seemed decent. I'm paying a little more than I'd wanted, but it has received good reviews

evaluating the i7-8700 is difficult, with a good board and good cooling it performs on the level of the 8700k which is 10% faster than the 9600k, but even the i7-8700 is 36% more expensive.
The HDD is basically useless for gaming, especially for open world games.

i don't really get why you want to pay 200L more for the same performance but thats your decision.
i'm out.

[Gavrushka]

... - But now I'm a little concerned. - The PC I'm getting has a 500watt PSU, and that's just what the dead one had. - The graphics card is a 1050GTI, so doesn't use much, and the I7 8700 uses only 65 watts, but I'm not as tech-savvy as once I was, so was wondering if there is some other power draw when playing games that's overstressing it.

The only way to know is to add everything up, using manufacturer's specs. Some sites let you do that easily using a drop-down/other stock picker menu in order to pick out an adequate PSU or they'll make recommendations for PSU.

IMO, just mine, 500 watts seems a bit low for a modern system. But, I have always been a "more power" sort of guy when it comes down to PSUs.

Here's a generic tool you can use: https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator (Just grabbed one off a quick search, there are plenty of others)

Here's a manufacturer's tool if, for instance, you'd want to use CoolerMaster - http://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/

What a brilliant site. Thank you! - Well, I entered all the details, including scope for a couple of additional external drives, and it came in at a recommended supply of just under 400 watts. Even so, I've contacted the supplier about whether it's possible to upgrade without damaging the warranty. - Thing is, it appears a lot of the new components use less power than their predecessors, and I'd always looked at a 750watt supply as the baseline.


@AdmiralTigerClaw: Yes, point taken, and I've lost enough PSUs to appreciate it's foolhardy to run them anywhere near capacity. - I will upgrade. Thanks.

@OwnlyMe: -Ah, I'm not so tech-savvy, and appreciate I may have gone for a less than ideal CPU, but I imagine it'll be good enough for a year or two, and I'll try to put a little more thought into my next purchase.

[Raztax]

Thanks, everyone, for their input. - I think I've decided to go for a brand new PC, and will just slot my existing graphics card into it: This one seemed decent. I'm paying a little more than I'd wanted, but it has received good reviews

The HDD is basically useless for gaming, especially for open world games.

I game from both HDD and SSD and while an SSD is clearly much faster, to say that HDDs are useless for gaming is just not true.

[Morkonan]

Thanks, everyone, for their input. - I think I've decided to go for a brand new PC, and will just slot my existing graphics card into it: This one seemed decent. I'm paying a little more than I'd wanted, but it has received good reviews

The HDD is basically useless for gaming, especially for open world games.

I game from both HDD and SSD and while an SSD is clearly much faster, to say that HDDs are useless for gaming is just not true.

^--- This. I've been gaming for decades, from IDE on, and normal HDDs, even if they're not even 7200 rpm, are just fine. IIRC, doesn't the XBox use a 5400 rpm HDD? And it's "basically useless, especially for open world games?"

/sigh

[jlehtone]

+1

Elite's Frontier was on single FD floppy, "open world" and playable (although bit buggy).
Have we been spoiled, if anything but a ramdisk on DDR4-4000 is "too slow"?

Ultra wide 8k is "basically useless" for Good Old Games that were optimized for 640x480 VGA.

[Gavrushka]

I've never used a SSD device, but I've sure played games from a floppy disc... And even played Orb of Zot on a Sharp MZ80K from a tape cassette. - I'm not even sure what the argument over a HDD being useless actually was other than the 5 -30 seconds wait time before playing for 2 or 3 hours. I'm old and patient. I can use that 30 seconds to find a more comfortable position on my chair so my piles don't itch so bad.

[birdtable]

Use that 30 seconds to read the notebook/notes of what you intended to do from the last play session but had totally forgotten.

[Gavrushka]

Use that 30 seconds to read the notebook/notes of what you intended to do from the last play session but had totally forgotten.

I would, if I could remember where I left the damned book...

And the new PC is AWESOME by the way. - I rang Monday to ask for it to be customised, and they made the alterations (including upgraded PSU,) still delivering the next day. - I can recommend Palicomp to anyone in the UK looking to buy a new PC.

[Morkonan]

That rapid-turnaround with your request says a lot about their responsiveness to their customers! Good company!

I have piles of old notebooks filled with X3TC notes... Primarily, I wrote down every darn coordinate for every Build Station mission because of that annoying bug. And, I loved doing those missions, since they had a huge pay-off and energized the economy where they were placed. Best Missions Ever!

[Gavrushka]

Ha, definitely pantsing X4, and still bumbling through trying to work out how to effectively use the map overlay (from which everything in-game can be controlled.)

One thing I can't work out is how to change the speed of the case fans on my new computer... LOL... I've a remote control which does alter them both (I see the strobing effect through the case lights change) but there is no indication of whether it's going faster or slower. -There's no bios control setting for it, and I've even checked the power draw from PC monitoring software, but there are no clues there. :/

[pjknibbs]

In a computer with multiple case fans there's usually a separate fan controller driving them, which is nothing to do with the BIOS, so you wouldn't see any difference there. As for the power draw, a typical computer fan draws a couple of watts at most, so the difference when you rev them up is going to be minimal. Basically, you'd have to use an external stroboscope to see how fast the fans are actually going, or else rely on the sound they make.

Is there a reason you're concerned about this? Is there any sign the system is overheating or thermally throttling itself?