Too many Windows 10 versions!

[Morkonan]

...- but they are only attempting to make your experience more personalised..
- yeah, I know it tends to appear somewhat patronising, but there's no malice in their intention..

I get somewhat annoyed by YouTube's "recommended for you" by-line for similar reasons, so I understand where you're coming from..

Yay, me, butting in again...

I don't want to hump my computer. I don't want to be "personally attached" to the "experience." I don't give a crap what it thinks I may "like." Its job, in my house, is not to offer me "suggestions." It can, quite literally, go screw itself instead of offering up "Here's some things that we thought you might be interested in or want to buy or would like to watch or would love to see a commercial for or vote for or play or..." It can, in short, STFU and just do what I tell it to do without offering up any commentary whatsoever.

But, that's not what's going on in our Age, is it?

Everyone thinks that "personalized services and recommendations" are "for them." THEY ARE NOT! Ever notice that ads in magazines (remember those) are based upon what the marketers think that the readers would be interested in buying? Why are ads in sports magazines focused on stuff that men would buy? Why aren't there ads for douches or sanitary pads or tampons? There are generations of unmarried men who don't know wtf a tampon is... ALL BECAUSE OF "PERSONALIZED EXPERIENCES!"

"Personalized" experiences are based on the user, of course, but then are prioritized on exploiting that knowledge in order to guide the user's "experience" in ways that compliment the intent of the provider. If I'm interested in "space stuff" then whoever is "personalizing" my "experience" is going to direct that experience for the most profit for them in mind, usually to agencies they have already contracted with.

PS - I always complain about privacy issues and the "Evil Empire" of manipulative e-commerce entities out there. Always. If there is anything I complain about in terms of "Conspiracy Theories" it's going to be related to personal data/info collection using new tech developments. I am aware of this and accept it... I don't demand that anyone else accept it, but when Google is unmasked as the newly revealed "Overlord of the Zombie Pokcyclips," don't come crying back to me saying I didn't warn anyone!

[BugMeister]

I don't use Google - haven't do so for ages..
It's Android based - Android is riddled with faults..

I also use a Windows Phone for similar reasons..

[Morkonan]

Yes, and no. I can't recall what I set them to tbh. But given the availability of being able to modify them, I don't really consider it a major problem. It's not good, sure, but it's not worth burning MS HQ down about.

I wouldn't harm anyone, burn down MS HQ, or even egg anyone's car over it... I'll just sit here and be a blowhard, spewing my complaints over the aether of the 'net, that's all.

And yes they do, and it's mostly Enterprise. I think there's a few Pro editions lying around too >.> I haven't looked at the telemetry data and options since deployment, certainly not enough for us to give any shits about.

Most of the stuff I've seen reports on is, obviously, standard Win10 editions and was done not long after release, before Mircro$oft announced its "new" data-collection and telemetry policies after the outcries and complaints. That was when they introduced some additional user-accessible switches. Very little has been reported on since then. Though, it's not possible to stop all the telemetry of course. At the very least it's going to check for updates, which is understandable, but that's not all that appears to be going on from what I have seen.

Originally, the issue was so severe that users on metered connections were complaining to the point of "burning MS HQ down" it was so bad.

The only people I know who deal with anything with networked Windows machines don't deal in Win10 stuff, since their orgs are all still on legacy OS.

[Antilogic]

I'll be having another look at the W10 deployments when I get around to upgrading my DC's so I can actually manage the desktop OS better, so I might have a look at the telemetry stuff again then.

All updates are handled in house. My network guy would be standing on my head if there was even the tiniest chance of the W10 side of things causing issues on that front.

This all assumes I still have a job by the new year though.

[esd]

BUG (why do people shout my name?)...

Not directed at me, but maybe because "ESD" often stands for "electrostatic discharge." (Does your NIC "esd" stand for something?)

Nope. It was an acronym, when I was 14... but that was well over 20 years ago and it's developed into a noun.

[red assassin]

I'm not a huge fan of the telemetry in Windows 10, but I also don't buy that it's entirely a plot to steal my personal data for evil purposes - you're thinking of Google there. Microsoft definitely does make money off advertising, but it's a pretty small chunk of their business (financial details here). "Just when it was clear that their OS was never going to turn a profit in its current form" is nonsense - Microsoft have never had a problem turning a profit, it just mostly doesn't come from direct consumer OS sales. The OS is there to sell an ecosystem to businesses; all we're seeing is that ecosystem evolving from including a lot of money in Windows license sales to getting most of that money from cloud services.

Furthermore, it's an acknowledged fact that bulk user telemetry can be used to improve user experiences. I'm not sure Microsoft have really demonstrated that in a very convincing manner thus far (but again, Microsoft isn't mostly focused on home users), but compare, say, Apple against Google: Apple are very serious about not processing people's personal data [1], while Google are very serious about doing so. Siri just isn't as good as Google Home (or Alexa) because it struggles for source data in a way they never will. Meanwhile, Google Maps can tell me how busy my local supermarket is, when it'll calm down, and how long it'll take me to drive there in traffic at that time, and Apple Maps just can't, because Google is powered by the aggregate location data of millions of people. One case where data gathering clearly is paying off for Microsoft is the security of their OS: one of the big factors in the enormous security improvements in Windows 10 is the scale of data they have access to about what's actually happening on Windows machines.

Now, I say this as a primary Linux user at home (I maintain a Windows 10 dual boot for games that won't run on Linux, but actually I do a significant chunk of my gaming on Linux these days as well!), but that's not a recent thing nor motivated by Windows telemetry concerns; I mean, I have an Android phone, so any and all hope of having any data privacy is long gone. Professionally I use Windows and Linux in equal measure.


[1] And if you want an ecosystem that's more polished than Linux and not going to harvest all your personal data, you should be buying Apple products.

[Morkonan]

..This all assumes I still have a job by the new year though.

Well, I'll keep my figners crossed for ya! Besides, IT jobs "flow like water" so there are bajillions of them out there, right? Of course, that doesn't mean any of the available ones are actually paying enough or nearby so you wouldn't have to relocate... The IT industry is really interesting in its dynamics, very much worth studying IMO. The IT sector is just plain "weird" when it comes down to comparing it with "traditional sectors." (I used to enjoy studying what used to be called "Theory of Work" stuff in college/university. Not sure what it's called these days.)

...Just when it was clear that their OS was never going to turn a profit in its current form" is nonsense - Microsoft have never had a problem turning a profit,...

Micro$oft's OS has "never" been profitable. (Never as in after the very early days.) The majority of their income comes from enterprise and cloud services, with Office products making a notable rise thanks to the more recently introduced subscription/cloud models they've instituted.

...Now, I say this as a primary Linux user at home (I maintain a Windows 10 dual boot for games that won't run on Linux, but actually I do a significant chunk of my gaming on Linux these days as well!), but that's not a recent thing nor motivated by Windows telemetry concerns; I mean, I have an Android phone, so any and all hope of having any data privacy is long gone. Professionally I use Windows and Linux in equal measure.

[1] And if you want an ecosystem that's more polished than Linux and not going to harvest all your personal data, you should be buying Apple products.

I was going to mention Apple's increasing montage of acting to protect and anonymize users. I read an article on that just this morning, as a matter of fact, but didn't want to get into the whole "Apple" thing.

But, I quoted you primarily due to my interest in a "Dual Boot Linux/Windows10" system, since it's something I'm interested in. Do you have link to a resource that would give an overview of that? I feel like it's my best migration point, for obvious reasons.

[Antilogic]

Well, I'll keep my figners crossed for ya! Besides, IT jobs "flow like water" so there are bajillions of them out there, right?

Ish, it's my mental health that's costing me everything, I am not in much of a state to be job searching. And I have no money left ^^.

Still, see what happens. Thanks and all.

[Morkonan]

Ish, it's my mental health that's costing me everything, I am not in much of a state to be job searching. And I have no money left ^^.

Still, see what happens. Thanks and all.

Stuff happens... And, I'm sure I'm not the only one here that's willing if you need someone to talk to.

It's almost as if there's a point in life that everyone goes through where "everything sucks." Heck, I go through that every day! I often come here to tell you guys about it, too. Today's sucky thing is I missed my doctor's appointment this morning due to the very thing that I was going to see the doctor about... Yay? Lolz!

IT is weird and usually promotes stressful environments, on the whole. Very crazy environment to be sure.

On Win10 - Off to the races to see if I can do something about a dual-boot Linux thing. I haven't touched anything "Linux" or close to it since my ex-father-in-law asked me to fix his office network that was a "Unix System", just because I "knew computer." That was an interesting experience for a DOS user...

[Antilogic]

On Win10 - Off to the races to see if I can do something about a dual-boot Linux thing. I haven't touched anything "Linux" or close to it since my ex-father-in-law asked me to fix his office network that was a "Unix System", just because I "knew computer." That was an interesting experience for a DOS user...

Just start with Ubuntu, it's an easy install and a nice gentle slide into the field. You can run it straight from USB to have a play without needing to worry about dual booting or VM's first.

[Morkonan]

Sweet! No muss, no fuss, just boot from USB and off I go! Tks, will start the download and look up the install for a flash drive/USB!

[red assassin]

Micro$oft's OS has "never" been profitable. (Never as in after the very early days.) The majority of their income comes from enterprise and cloud services, with Office products making a notable rise thanks to the more recently introduced subscription/cloud models they've instituted.

That's literally what I wrote in the sentence after you quoted!


Ubuntu provides a guide to getting a liveUSB set up here: https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/t ... -windows#0 If you want to install it properly, the installer on the liveUSB setup pretty much walks you through it, and there's tutorials for it on their site as well. Mostly it's pretty painless these days. I run Ubuntu on nearly everything (including my Macbook Pro!) because it largely just works.

[Praefectus classis]

I'm still on Windows 7 at the moment. I also have a couple of machines running Linux Mint. I don't like Windows 10 and will avoid it for as long as I can. I suppose I will have to bite the bullet at some stage so as to play the games that won't run on Linux or PS4. I've had to sort a few nasty messes on customers' Windows 10 machines.

[Antilogic]

I've had to sort a few nasty messes on customers' Windows 10 machines.

I've seen 4 billion of them on Windows 7, what's new?

Overall, 10 is a great OS. Much better than 8, and much much better than 7. Plenty I don't like mind, but for core end users, computer usage experience has never been smoother.

[MarvinTheMartian]

Micro$oft's OS has "never" been profitable. (Never as in after the very early days.) The majority of their income comes from enterprise and cloud services, with Office products making a notable rise thanks to the more recently introduced subscription/cloud models they've instituted.

And this is exactly why they are collecting "data" - to make money, or at least develop new ways to make more money.

The OS may never have made them much money but the apps that rely go on it did, thinking office etc. It's a new paradigm with SaaS and subscription software. I don't blame them for taking that path but I do resent the effectively impossible opt-out. I disable/uninstall services and apps that I don't want (just like on my Android phone to be fair) but almost every update they come back asking to be default apps again. It was a few years ago when a new version of Skype came in as an Important Update in windows update that I began to take offence at this, an obvious attempt to force their unnecessary software on me. And now I don't even get a choice whether this would be installed or not.

It's not conspiracy or criminal but it's certainly not some altruistic attempt to give you the best experience, it's so they can make more money. From you, full stop. Not just with that O365 subscription, extra OneDrive space, MSNBC news, Solitaire (FFS) and advertising revenue but also to ensure you "need" to keep upgrading - there's nothing wrong with that copy of Office 2013 I have but if I want to connect to SharePoint, OneDrive or even just MS account (and who knows what in the future - printing?) then I'll have to be on the latest and greatest version.

Perhaps there'll be some monumental screw-up in the future and everyone will re-evaluate how they share their very personal information or maybe most will be mindless morons soaking up advertorials, propaganda and "news" like some writers predict: 1984 or Idiocracy - take your pick

It's by no means limited to Windows, but, my PC that I built from parts I bought was my refuge from all this kind of carry-on (and could be properly offline if I wanted) and, once I upgrade my 5 year old rig, that'll be gone and that's a little sad. This is why I have an Ubuntu desktop VM running on my 2nd screen and basically just have Windows to run Steam and a couple of other things

[Morkonan]

FYI - Gotta pick up a new USB drive for this. I have several, but all that I have of desirable size is for dedicated stuff like backups, transport, etc... But, I'll be playing with Ubuntu by the weekend!

If I can run a dual-boot environment smoothly and don't get any fuss from the apps I'll be using (ie: It really is a legit way to run Win10 without issues) then I will be a "Ubuntu Dual-Boot Win 10 Man" just like all the cool guys! And, if there's no issue with vm's, I'll do that too.

... new paradigm with SaaS ...

There's that word, again... Abbreviation... Blworb... (Don't worry, made that last word up.)

I understand the concept, but don't understand the friggin necessity, other than it's a new way for developers to lock-in continuing finance and enslave a population...

"SAASGYBTB - Software as a Service, Got you by the balls"

There, much better.

Justifications I can't stand...

"It's much cheaper for you to lease the service than paying for the full product... just as long as you don't actually continue your use for any reasonable amount of time, that is."

or

"Don't worry, you can unsubscribe at any time. Unsubscribing only means that you will no longer be able to receive support or software updates. The product will continue to function just fine... until we change our proprietary file-format standard to a version that can not be read or written to by software that has not been updated."

[Antilogic]

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

Stick in that and have a play. If you like it enough, you can setup a dual boot.

Windows will not complain about the dual boot.

SaaS is pretty awesome.

[pjknibbs]

Ubuntu also has an option called WUBI where you can install it without repartitioning your hard drive--it basically sets up its primary hard drive as a single big file on your Windows NTFS partition, but otherwise works exactly like a regular dual-boot.

[Praefectus classis]

FYI - Gotta pick up a new USB drive for this. I have several, but all that I have of desirable size is for dedicated stuff like backups, transport, etc... But, I'll be playing with Ubuntu by the weekend!

Have a look at Linux Mint too. I prefer the layout better than Ubuntu. Some of the versions are based on Ubuntu.

[Antilogic]

FYI - Gotta pick up a new USB drive for this. I have several, but all that I have of desirable size is for dedicated stuff like backups, transport, etc... But, I'll be playing with Ubuntu by the weekend!

Have a look at Linux Mint too. I prefer the layout better than Ubuntu. Some of the versions are based on Ubuntu.

I deliberately resisted suggesting anything else because Ubuntu is the perfect beginner tool while being fully functional and it's something generally agreed upon. Let's not be like every freaking linux forum and drown the guy in "My distro is better" messages ^^